Don't worry about eating clean. Just EAT man!

Seems like people on here try to put things into black & white categories of "clean" and "dirty."  I believe this is at least partly human nature, trying to define things as "us or them," "good or bad" or "right or wrong," and you can see it in many aspects of our behavior, especially as regards politics.

Over on the clean side, we have whole grain pasta's, lean meat, vegetables, etc.

Over on the dirty side, everything else is lumped, some aren't really dirty, they're just not "super-clean": pizza, ice cream, white pasta, anything that isn't 100% whole grain, slightly fatty cuts of meat, white rice.  Foods like white rice, breads that contain some white flour, and even some pizzas aren't all that bad for you, and really should not be categorized as "dirty," imho. 

Perhaps the problem is the stricly black & white dichotomy.  Foods are not just clean & dirty, there is a continuum.

totally agree dr j, i love pizza and consider it a very healthy food.

If i said i was eating cheese and tomato sandwhiches with ham in white bread, most people would just moan about the white bread and thats it.

Put it into the fashion of a pizza and its a oil infested dirty piece of crap and all its calories are garbage, despite it having the exact same ingredients, just cooked differently...In that sandwhiches arent cooked LOL.

dirty foods are mcdonalds, cakes, sweets, doughnuts, lard infested treats.

The foods me and brihead like and stuff our faces with are simply considered dirty foods when in reality theyre not.

Also worrying about being "unhealthy" is a bit silly too when you think about it.  A young guy under 35 eating a lot to gain strength and muscle is not that bad.

If you make a whole lifestyle of no exercise and nothing but crap eating, then the health concerns may be greater.

Squats are better than steroids

I just think my way will work faster

Given that an individual can only build X amount of muscle based on nutrition, training stimulation and the ultimate.. recovery...

Eating in excess of what's required for muscle creation will not get you anywhere faster.

Marc C. David
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My statement is based on the following:

1.) When 'clean bulking', or eating just enough to gain minimal fat (aka. 500 calories over maintainence), it is very easy to undereat.  How many calories you use in a day fluctuates, and your maintainence increases as you get stronger, and your workouts get harder.  If you just eat LOTS of food, enough to BE SURE that you are eating enough to gain, then there will be no question that you have sufficient calories for repair, recovery, AND GROWTH. 

2.) More calories = more weight gained.  You will get stronger as you gain weight, correct?  When you get stronger your muscles grow, right?  Eating just enough to gain weight, but with minimal fat gains is limiting strength gain potential.  IOW, if you ate 1500 calories over maintainence every day, you would feel much stronger during your workouts, and you would definately be covered as far as having enough for maximum growth to occur.  Again, 500 over 'maintainence' is being too conservative, since you don't actually know what your maintainence is since it fluctuates daily. 

I was a beast yesterday at the gym, and I know I ate about 1500 calories MORE then I usually do.  My lifts were easy, and I feel great today.

3.) The guys that have 'been there and done that' ALL say the same thing - The BIG, JACKED GUYS SAY IT.  You gotta EAT BIG!!!!! They are all against the '500 over maintainence, all clean' bulking.    I treat them as a reputable source of information.
 
But basically, what I think it all comes down to is when guys think they are eating 500 calories over maintainence they actually are only eating just enough to repair thier muscles and MAYBE enough to recover enough (since 'maintainence' fluctuates).  Having an ABUNDANCE of extra calories ENSURES - REPAIR, MAXIMUM RECOVERY POTENTIAL, AND MAXIMUM GROWTH POTENTIAL.

So, it's not that 'dirty bulking' is building more muscle then 'clean bulking' it's just that it guarantees you that you are getting all the calories you need.

Squats are better than steroids

Marc David

I just think my way will work faster

Given that an individual can only build X amount of muscle based on nutrition, training stimulation and the ultimate.. recovery...

Eating in excess of what's required for muscle creation will not get you anywhere faster.

100% true, but of course that is taking on the assumption one is indeed eating excess enough to put on as much muscle weight as is optimally possible with there routine, which of course is not always the case.

The reason "just eat man" is a good option for beginners (ones who are relatively skinny and just wanna bulk up) is because quite frankly a 8% ectomorph who weighs 120lbs is going to be wasting time measuring cups of brown rice out.

He could spend more of his time just simply cooking bucketloads of all manner of foods not caring whether it be white or brown and just eat it.

This is in no way a damper on david1991's progress, but the dude spends so much time doing excrutiatingly detailed routines and diets he just keeps fluctuating between a particular 15lbs barrier, whereas if he just lifted a tonne of weight (metaphorically of course lol) and just ate like a monster im pretty sure every lift he has would be much stronger, and he'd weigh a lot more, sure, hed gain fat, everyone gains fat on a bulk, even the hardcore ectos gain a lbs or two of fat, only the very very VERY gifted and lucky souls (usually on illegal stuff anyway) manage to keep bodyfat the same all the time or lower when eating 4000 odd calories.

Most newbies dont want to be told they have to weigh out bags of food every hour of every day.
Most newbies want to bicep curl and end up like ronnie coleman.


As a result when it comes to advice for beginners, it is much simpler to say "lift a lot, eat a lot"

Its short, and simple, and it makes them rearing to go

However if i typed out a 40 page essay on experiments and data theyd shut off and just find something else thats easier.

Every new person wants to do thing the easy way, so give them the best easy way, and that is to simply lift a lot and eat a lot, and usually (apart from people below 6ft) thatl get them to 200lbs, it did for me, and im a hardcore hardgainer.

Of course i agree once you start edging into professional bodybuilding, the diet must be pimped up and worked on majorly.

But for most people here who dont have the genetic potential or dont want to use illegal substances for pro BBing and just want a fairly big body, the methodology of "eat big and get big" will work.

Also i do have to add....last week i did indulge on a massive oil infested fry up

3 bacon, 3 egg, 3 sausage, 3 hash browns, massive load of mushrooms, beans everywhere, 4 slices of toast and about 2 pints of orange juice.

About 1 1/2 hours later i went to the gym, and freakin' hell, my deadlifts were a buttload easier than my usual pre workout meal of a small bowl of pasta and some meats and oils, a LOT easier.

Twisted, you said exactly what I was trying to get across, but you said it much better. 

Squats are better than steroids

This is one of the big dudes that I'm talking about that give the advice to 'just eat tons of food':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m6CW2lpRQ8&eurl=http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=104393&page=9

He's not fat at all.

Squats are better than steroids

Has anyone just listened to their body?  When I exercise hard I build up an appetite. 

Unfortunatly it's not just listening to your body, or else you'd only maintain.  To gain a lot of weight, you have to eat when you're not hungry very often.

Squats are better than steroids

brihead301


Unfortunatly it's not just listening to your body, or else you'd only maintain.  To gain a lot of weight, you have to eat when you're not hungry very often.

no that isnt true, if you eat when you are hungry and eat until you are satisfied you will gain weight, as long as you are working out properly.  The body is adapting to the stress induced by lifting weights and is building muscle and you are more hungry because of it, if you just eat when you are hungry you'll gain muscle and very little fat.  Its a very simple concept

i personally have seen the best of both worlds i guess you could say
 
in highschool i played football ( defensive line ) i weighed at my highest 275lbs and it ranged from there to about 250
 
when i was 275-250 i was fat, but i lifted and worked out every single day, i lifted hard and was strong

my maxes in highschool for squat were 550lbs and bench was 345 ( nothing crazy but i was also only 14-16 years old )

now i am about 190 and i consider myself a pretty strong guy but no where near what i used to be.

difference? diet..

back then i obviously weighed more, but i ate whatever i wanted just because i had to maintain size and gain strength

now that im 190 i watch what i eat, eat healthy, ( sometimes healthier then others ) but overall my strength gains are nothing in comparison to what they used to be

im not sure how many people ( probably none ) this applys too but i think when it comes to bulking clean/dirty you have to evaluate where you want to be in 6months, a year, 2 years and then go from there

I agree soccer when i lift im always alot hungrier but if im on a week break my appetite starts going down after 3-5 days then when i start lifting again BAM hunger is back.

I dont even count calories anymore i eat when i feel im about to start getting hungry and make sure i just make sure i get enough protein and bcaa's

YOU GOTTA EAT BIG, TO BE!

NASM certified trainer

just because you cleaned up your diet, i dont think that has any relation to why you are gaining more slowly than before...

I agree soccer when i lift im always alot hungrier but if im on a week break my appetite starts going down after 3-5 days then when i start lifting again BAM hunger is back.

I dont even count calories anymore i eat when i feel im about to start getting hungry and make sure i just make sure i get enough protein and bcaa's

damn skippy lol