Stop f**king around and lift like you mean it.

I forget what this is called, but you'd actually get bigger and stronger from working every part of your body.  If you ignored your legs, your abs or back might be kind of weak.  The guy that does  deadlifts will ultimately have better lats than the guy that doesn't.

You can't just do bench press and curls and expect to have a nice body.  Theres so much more in the equation like your delts, traps, lats, abs, etc..

15 years old - 6'0 - 175lbs - 16%BF - Forever Bulking

[image]http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/772/dehco1.jpg[/image]

Nice job and well put.  What an eye opener.  Would you say though that doing squats and deadlifts is a must for the beginner? 

I'm sorta torn on that-
While it's easy to say that everyone could benefit from starting their squat and deadlift training as early as possible, some beginners just don't lift smart enough to mess around with heavy compound movements right out of the gate.
IF- and this is a big IF- The person was to start out just practicing the movement, making sure their form is right with light weight, then those two exercises can be the most beneficial thing they've ever done for their muscles.
The sad truth is this though- Most beginners like to move too quickly. We all want gains, and we want them fast, but when you're first starting out is obviously the most dangerous time to push for big gains. Let's face it- too many people out there, after lifting for a few short weeks or less, will pull a dumb move like try for their one rep max on the bench.
Keep in mind- Getting hurt while benching is bad enough. With squats and deads, there's a lot more muscle involved throughout a larger portion of the body. This means there's more potential for injury waiting for someone who wants to push their luck by trying to lift more than they should.
It takes time to get your muscles used to all these exercises, and it also takes time for your mind and body to get used to all the muscles it's building and using. Without some sort of mind/muscle connection, which is built through practice and time, there's just no way anyone can safely lift a lot of weight for any exercise.
 
Some people say that these exercises aren't for beginners. I've heard it said plenty of times that beginners should do safer exercises until they build up a bit of a mind/muscle connection- A few months of leg extensions, legs curls, etc-
I don't personally think it's necessary. The movements themselves, squats and deads, are perfectly safe. It's the use of proper form and the amount of weight the person puts on the bar that can cause problems.
In other words, instead of advising beginners to stay away from them, I think it's better to teach beginners to respect them and their own bodies by lifting smart.
 

I personally feel like squats and deadlifts helped me get over my plateau.  I read this post, then I added them to my routine and then *boom* six pounds in 2 weeks.  Thank you for opening my eyes CPL. 

ORIGINAL: cpl

IF- and this is a big IF- The person was to start out just practicing the movement, making sure their form is right with light weight, then those two exercises can be the most beneficial thing they've ever done for their muscles.

I'm interested in doing that, since I'm a beginner myself. Do you think, cpl, then that if I were to start practicing dead lifts and squats at light weight, possible even with just the bar, then I could do it every day?  I mean, since it wouldn't be taxing my muscles...there wouldn' be much need for rest/growth time. 

What I mean is, I'm in the gym every day to work a new muscle group.  Each day is pretty intense, what with going for muscle failure at 4-6 reps.  I do feel comfortable doing that on exercises like the bench press, standing barbell curl, and most other exercises because I have done them, albeit on and off, for the past few years and have acceptable form.  But what about leg day, if I go in there and do squats and DLs with low weight? Should I just consider it a light workout?    I'd like to just practice it a little bit every day...

So what would you recommend as a "practice" routine for not only learning proper form, but forming that mental/muscle connection.  I couldn't agree more that, like anything, your brain has to workin physical activity too. 

Sorry for lengthy post, and honestly, cpl, you could probably post a new thread on "Practicing Deadlifts and Squats".  I know I would read and certainly try it, because I think that those workouts could be a missing ingredient for lots of people.

I would say its important to warm up with one or two sets of light squats, just so you can get into the proper groove. people say to squat with a straight back, but you kind of have to look into what they're saying. Its fine to bend forward at the waist *a little* unless you have freakish ankle flexibility you have to to handle any significant weight. The -lower back- however you should either be straight or arched.  Sometimes I squat with a lot of back arch. The weight, and I mean where in your body you feel the reisistnce at should be back and over the ankle. I squat with my knees bending  a little. The knees should go over the foot, directly. The motion(with the hips) should be as  close to going straight up and down as possible, at least thats been my experience. Training with light weight can help to learn technique, but in my expereince, no matter how much I practice I can't get the groove right lifting cold.
Its probably necessary to practice with at least the weight of an olympic bar, just because the feel of free squatting and squatting with weight is just so different, that weight astride your traps adds kind of a different balancing force.
BTW, the weight should be as high on your traps as you can stand, and your hands placed out almost as far as the plates on the bar, for balance.

best lifts

Squat 295x6
Bench 175x3
Deadlift 285x1
Leg Press 800+ for reps

7 and 3/4'' wrist at 5'11''

To get your muscles used to the movement, it would be fine to practice a few squats/deadlifts a few days a week- With no weight on the bar at all. Concentrate on just the form, and don't go until you're tired- Just ten or twenty sets of each, three or four times a week, with no weight should help build up the proper form. This, along with your actual leg and back workouts, should help get you moving heavier weights before you know it.
Remember- Do not confuse practice with challenging your muscles. I know plenty of people myself who think that they can "practice their form" while squatting over two hundred, three hundred pounds- That's not practice, that's work. Don't practice form with any amount of weight that could be in the least challenging to your muscles, not when you're supposed to be doing a real workout in the same week.

"I run/ride a bike/do martial arts(or whatever), so my legs already get a good workout."

THis caught my eye.
    I play ice hockey at least twice a week and supplement with roller hockey in between skates. My legs are in good shape because of this.
    Where it seems some folks might feel this is enough of a leg workout, I fell totally opposite. When I'm working my legs, I really enjoying the thought of knowing how I'm improving my athletic performance.
    I really just don't get it. I LOVE squats, leg curls, and calve exercises and the feeling I get afterwards.
    CPL's post only reinforces this for me. THanks!

Well said!
 
Legs are super important to work hard and I find they are stimulated the best at the begining of a workout.
 
Right now im doing a 3 day a week full body and i work the legs first thing and I ve noticed significant gains!
 
Squats are the best for overall development but i also like leg presses and lunges.
 
 
 
--- Natural Muscle

"How I Gained 23
Pounds of Lean Muscle in 4 Short Weeks - Without UsingSteroids..."www.musclebuildingfast.com"Click here for your FREE report!"

Hi what up to everyone. I like the post, make a lot of sense. I love a leg work out. i personally tax them out. After all is said and done , your barly walking out of the gym. But its feels good not like you over did it. Yes you right you hear some people talk about what they dont do instead of what they should be doing. So, thanks it just remind me to keep focuse.
 
reggie.

HELL YEA BOTHER, I UNDERSTAND.

Half your muscle mass is in your lower body, so you just can't neglect it.  Plus, you leg muscles are contracted so much on a daily basis from walking that it's an awesome metabolism booster.

thanks 2 posts like this, the guys who's don't work legs are now looked down upon in the gym

johnlpool06 try WWW.EXRX.NET

Dude.. this is a great post. I've not even read the entire thing and I feel like a moron. While I knew a lot of what I have read, there was also a lot I didn't know. Looks like Im making modifications to my lifting routine.