legal steriods

hey guys im 18 5'8 and about 130 pounds. ive always been pretty ripped but never really BIG and want to put on some mass. i havent worked out in months now but im going to start getting back in it and have been looking into supplements. from what i hear legal stuides work 100times better then anything gnc has to offer
 
im willing to spend about 30 bucks a week
 
from what i hear d-bol seems to be the best BUT ive also heard cycles are even better
 
i found a cylce thats 6 weeks long for about 170 bucks with dura 50, thai 50, and "primo orals"?
anythoughts on this?
 
i was also thinking about taking creatine again....

Please tell me you are kidding.

NO. Do not take STEROIDS. Eat a LOT of food, train HEAVY, and if you must, take creatine.

If you take those harsh orals at 18, you are screwed. You are way screwed for the rest of your life. Jesus.

Another thing, the real **** isn't that cheap, so if you do wind up doing it, it is going to cost you a lot more for the real thing.

BUT DON'T DO IT

what about products such as cell mass and no-xplode or watever?
 
i use to workout alot and ive never been over 145 :(

Dude, try this.

Supplementation

100% Optimum Nutrition Whey
Gaspari Nutrition Superpump 250
Gaspari Nutrition SizeOn
Fish Oil
Multivitamin

Food
Start with 3000 calories and monitor your progress each week.
Whole Milk
Red Meat
Chicken
Fish
Vegetables
Brown Rice
Potatoes
Yams

As for training, I would go to the critique my training section and look for Push/Pull/Legs split or just use the search function for push/pull/legs.

Steroids will mess up your endocrine system and hormones for life, especially if you jump into harsh ones like d-bol at 18. Do the diet and training for 8 months and come back. If you don't gain weight each week, increase your calories by 300 until you gain a pound or two per week.

where can i find the first 3

Go to

www.Supplements101.com

And search for them. Then choose your flavors and buy them. If you can't get stuff online, GNC has all three of them no problem, but GNC is over priced.

thanks, what do you think about naNo vapor? i use to take it and loved it
 
and im guessing the amino acids and glutamine is good too?

btw id rather take pills then powders and ive also take hydroxycut b4

I would just stick to the supplement list I gave you. Your diet is the most important thing anyway, and you don't need to waste your money on ****ty supplements like those crooks at Muscletech.

You don't need hydroxycut, you are trying to gain weight. If you have to have pills, just buy creatine monohydrate in capsule form and take about 15-20g per day and if you wish, read up on how to cycle it, but I never cared about cycling, I just take the stuff until its all gone.

suppliments do one thing, suppliment you training and diet regimen.  The should not be the pure focus of your regimen.

You need to eat big to be big.  if you do not intake enough calories per day you will not gain weight, its that simple.   I think you should throw up your diet in the diet section for review.

but creatine makes you retain water and hence soft muscles?

No, no.

When Veggeep gets online, he will help clear up your creatine misconceptions. He knows quite a bit about it based on one of his previous posts I can't seem to find.

I just never really got into using it, but it does work well for the natural body builder or athlete.

ok well im going to research some products their for a while and ill post up some stuff im intersted in
 
i know ive heard great stuff bout no-xplod, nitrix, and cell mass
 
i just worked out today for the first time in a very long time, ive never been so sore lol.

You will not be able to buy genuine P orals for the price you are thinking of paying, they are fake.  As a physician I just want to make a couple of points about steroids that someone thinking about them should know.  I am not making these references to condone or object to their use.  I only use the names in necessity.
There are only a small handful of steroids that are indicated for use by human subjects, anything outside this small handful are considered too dangerous in their effect of side effect to be considered pharmaceuticals.  The term "human grade" does not exist and it is proposterous to think that anything that doesn't go through its final quality control checks in North america could be considered a pharma product.
The steroids with North American indications are:
stanazolol (Upjohn) for wasting and anti progesteronic effects.  2mg tabs blister packs only, suspension is a non FDA approved vet medication called winstrol V, winny-V is not stanazolol

oxandrolone for wasting (generics available) 5mg pressed tabs in blisters only

oxymethanolone by Searle, no known approved generics 50mg pressed tabs in blister pack only.  I have heard of an approved 25mg but the 50's are scored so i doubt it.

nandrolone decanoate (discontinued in 2007)  there are no approved forms of nandrolone decanoate, all organon products are either fake or obsolete.  25 and 50mg/ml in 2ml for a max of 100mg per vial is the only once approved form

testosterone base in cream gel or patch to a maximum concentration of 5% in creams and gels and dose of 12.5mg in a patch

testosterone enanthate in 200mgml, in 10ml multiject (delasteryl) and a 4ml ampoule but I can't remember the name.

cypionate is said to be made by sandoz canada and available but there is no indication for prescribing it in Canada, perhaps in the states but cypionate has not been reported as being made under license for a long time, enanthate took over.

I'm sure some of you will want to argue with me because you have 300mgml human grade deca or something but I'm sorry its a futile argument.

if you are considering a drug that is not part of that list in those forms you are buying either an illegal ugl product or something from a foreign country without our guidelines that we considered to dangerous.

many of todays prohormones and prosteroids are attempts at pharma drugs that couldn't get approved due to their dangers.  Now that the old patents are expiring the supps companies scoop them up and register them as new patents as supps, this skirts the drug number/registration since the originals of those have also expired.  Epistane is the classic example, a cytotoxic antineoplastic (chemotherapy) drug that could only get approved for use with patients in China.  It is toxic to fast growing cells due to it effect of binding up dna so it cant separate, the cell can't multiply so it dies.  Who wants to kill fast growing cells when you are building muscle?

Some of the ugl products out there especially in canada are extremely high quality, but, they are NOT approved therefore if you get sick, you have no recourse.  I would say no on cheap thai 50's (no such thing) and the cheap primo.  thai 50's are a product of a british company with the same die for their tab press.

you got a lot of good advice  from this thread so far, these guys know much more about building muscles than the eurorip artists offering to make it easy for you.  besides you are at the wrong place to find a blessing for using steroids.

good luck to you.

wow

THANKS

one more point, there is a Canadian company where you can make custom orders for your own designed supplements.  So, if you want creatine in whatever form plus aakg and glutamine all at your own concentrations you can get it done as long as you order 10kg min, which is about the price of 1 or 2 at a health shop.
I don't want any trouble so I don't know if I can say who it is but if thats allowed PM me and I'll give you the name.
You can buy bulk synephrine, phenethylamine, creatine  all the stuff you wish you could buy without paying for a name brand, caffeine, dmae etc... very good and he'll bs with you forever on the net doesn't matter if you are spending 10 bucks or 10000 he puts every effort into everyone. 
the reason I say this is because some of the supplement regimes you are given are daunting when you go to buy them, this is a very affordable route for exactly what you want.

pm sent

bremac


You will not be able to buy genuine P orals for the price you are thinking of paying, they are fake.  As a physician I just want to make a couple of points about steroids that someone thinking about them should know.  I am not making these references to condone or object to their use.  I only use the names in necessity.
There are only a small handful of steroids that are indicated for use by human subjects, anything outside this small handful are considered too dangerous in their effect of side effect to be considered pharmaceuticals.  The term "human grade" does not exist and it is proposterous to think that anything that doesn't go through its final quality control checks in North america could be considered a pharma product.
The steroids with North American indications are:
stanazolol (Upjohn) for wasting and anti progesteronic effects.  2mg tabs blister packs only, suspension is a non FDA approved vet medication called winstrol V, winny-V is not stanazolol

oxandrolone for wasting (generics available) 5mg pressed tabs in blisters only

oxymethanolone by Searle, no known approved generics 50mg pressed tabs in blister pack only.  I have heard of an approved 25mg but the 50's are scored so i doubt it.

nandrolone decanoate (discontinued in 2007)  there are no approved forms of nandrolone decanoate, all organon products are either fake or obsolete.  25 and 50mg/ml in 2ml for a max of 100mg per vial is the only once approved form

testosterone base in cream gel or patch to a maximum concentration of 5% in creams and gels and dose of 12.5mg in a patch

testosterone enanthate in 200mgml, in 10ml multiject (delasteryl) and a 4ml ampoule but I can't remember the name.

cypionate is said to be made by sandoz canada and available but there is no indication for prescribing it in Canada, perhaps in the states but cypionate has not been reported as being made under license for a long time, enanthate took over.

I'm sure some of you will want to argue with me because you have 300mgml human grade deca or something but I'm sorry its a futile argument.

if you are considering a drug that is not part of that list in those forms you are buying either an illegal ugl product or something from a foreign country without our guidelines that we considered to dangerous.

many of todays prohormones and prosteroids are attempts at pharma drugs that couldn't get approved due to their dangers.  Now that the old patents are expiring the supps companies scoop them up and register them as new patents as supps, this skirts the drug number/registration since the originals of those have also expired.  Epistane is the classic example, a cytotoxic antineoplastic (chemotherapy) drug that could only get approved for use with patients in China.  It is toxic to fast growing cells due to it effect of binding up dna so it cant separate, the cell can't multiply so it dies.  Who wants to kill fast growing cells when you are building muscle?

Some of the ugl products out there especially in canada are extremely high quality, but, they are NOT approved therefore if you get sick, you have no recourse.  I would say no on cheap thai 50's (no such thing) and the cheap primo.  thai 50's are a product of a british company with the same die for their tab press.

you got a lot of good advice  from this thread so far, these guys know much more about building muscles than the eurorip artists offering to make it easy for you.  besides you are at the wrong place to find a blessing for using steroids.

good luck to you.

You sound exactly like the user on AM forums that was banned. You're the M.D., Ph.D. no?

Please explain to me how methylepitiostanol is a cytoxic agent. The only studies I've seen have been using epitiostanol in breast cancer therapy but strictly as a steroidal anti estrogen, do you have any studies involving methylepitiostanol being used as a antineoplastic agent? I'm sure a lot of people would love to see them. For an antineoplastic agent, it sure seems to have some pronounced anabolic effects. I would really love to get a respone for this because, it's been somethin that's been bugging me since you made that allegation on AM.

Btw there are numerous designer steroids that were produced over the years, just because only a handful is licensed for medical use doesn't meant any other steroidal anabolic is "too dangerous for human use". Nandrolone and testosterone the only anabolic steroids licensed in the UK, but that's just because use of these drugs outside of hrt is so limited there.

NO. Do not take STEROIDS. Eat a LOT of food, train HEAVY, and if you must, take creatine

  and stay healthy and alive...

DONT BLAME THE PITBULL TRAIN THE PITBULL .BAN THE DEED NOT THE BREED.... OH YES MY GRAMR AND SPELNG SUCK AZZ...I KNOW.. THERE ARE NO BAD DOGS.JUST BAD OWNERS...

That's an interesting critique, odw777, and I'm eager to hear a reply myself.  I've been following bremac on another discussion about prohormones and honestly, I don't know what to make of his rambling, pseudo-scientific fearmongering.  Honestly, once you get past the professorial vocabulary, the guy has cited nothing more than his own lab experience (in... what, exactly??), and a friggin' Wikipedia article (tenuously linking Epi to chemotherapy drugs, then hedging his bet on whether the 17-methyl config rendered it a completely different compound, potentially negating his entire objection), and yet he can't even name the actives in any of the products he's poo-pooing!

I like bremac's skepticism and the fact that he doesn't trust most of the clinical trial methodologies used to assess drug safety.  But then people like that will find a problem with any scientific method.

Not to mention, I personally could give a rat f*ck what the Food & Drug Administration approves.  These are the same idiots who claim that the way General Mills markets Cheerios classifies it as a drug.  The FDA is nothing but a rubber stamp for the pharmaceutical industry and their lobbiests, who have no problem at all putting millions of Americans on psychoactive mood altering drugs, creating 4-hour boners, and researching a chemical cure for obesity.

Anyone who thinks anti-estrogenic compounds proven to reduce or even eliminate gynocomastia and mitigate breast cancer didn't get approval because of their dangers betrays a glaring naivite about the real nature of pharmaceutical research and approval in the US.  Frankly, some of the approved crap they peddle here on primetime television designed to fight insomnia, acid reflux, osteoporosis, arthritis, or even seasonal allergies have side effect lists that would make an old-school D-Bol abuser blush.

I know it's a long shot, but maybe -just maybe- Some of those "Eurorip artists" know a little more about physiology than the FDA's lawyers.

My home away from DBB

I was waiting for your response in this discussion Veg!

Good info.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

wtf 18 and only 130lbs you should not be getting anywhere even close to steroids and even if you did take them i would bet any amount of money you wouldnt see very many gains cause i guarantee your diet isnt in check

YOU GOTTA EAT BIG, TO BE BIG!!

NASM certified trainer
NFPT certified trainer

Winter Bulk goal:245-250 by dec 31
Current weight: 235

dude? are you joking? I googled rpn havoc (pro steroid, or legal steroid as the OP is asking for ) and your thread came up.. where you are taking it and are the same age as him...

makes no sense.. you tell him not to do it.. but do it yourself..

Not sure who you're addressing that to, ali23.  Are you replying to Creation?  If so, I don't think the fact that the OP is 18 years old is the focus of Creation's objections or advice.  Read it again.  He said "18 and only 130lbs...[and] your diet isn't in check".

At 220 Lbs, 10% BF, and 22 years of age, with several years of training experience, Creation is better qualified than most to advise an obvious beginner to steer clear of anabolics.  That's how I read it.

My home away from DBB

No, he was talking about me, Veg. When I took Havoc, I was 190lb and still 18 years old. Had a good diet and all that, but I was just trying to get my feet wet in the world of anabolics.

I wish I would have never started using things like epsitane, tren, 3-AD, or whatever. I am too young, and I realize that now, but the hard part is convincing yourself you don't need the stuff to get bigger or stronger. It's something I think about almost every day.

So, yes I can tell him not to take the steroids because I learned my lesson the hard way. These compounds really mess with your mind, sleep, appetite, general well being, whatever. Coming off of them is just as hard as being on them also.

Listen to Perry, he's speaking from experience. You shouldn't really consider anabolics until your endocrine system develops.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

wtf 18 and only 130lbs you should not be getting anywhere even close to steroids

 
lmao

''If one is after quick results one never learns an art.''

Erich Fromm

veggeep


That's an interesting critique, odw777, and I'm eager to hear a reply myself.  I've been following bremac on another discussion about prohormones and honestly, I don't know what to make of his rambling, pseudo-scientific fearmongering.  Honestly, once you get past the professorial vocabulary, the guy has cited nothing more than his own lab experience (in... what, exactly??), and a friggin' Wikipedia article (tenuously linking Epi to chemotherapy drugs, then hedging his bet on whether the 17-methyl config rendered it a completely different compound, potentially negating his entire objection), and yet he can't even name the actives in any of the products he's poo-pooing!

I like bremac's skepticism and the fact that he doesn't trust most of the clinical trial methodologies used to assess drug safety.  But then people like that will find a problem with any scientific method.

Not to mention, I personally could give a rat f*ck what the Food & Drug Administration approves.  These are the same idiots who claim that the way General Mills markets Cheerios classifies it as a drug.  The FDA is nothing but a rubber stamp for the pharmaceutical industry and their lobbiests, who have no problem at all putting millions of Americans on psychoactive mood altering drugs, creating 4-hour boners, and researching a chemical cure for obesity.

Anyone who thinks anti-estrogenic compounds proven to reduce or even eliminate gynocomastia and mitigate breast cancer didn't get approval because of their dangers betrays a glaring naivite about the real nature of pharmaceutical research and approval in the US.  Frankly, some of the approved crap they peddle here on primetime television designed to fight insomnia, acid reflux, osteoporosis, arthritis, or even seasonal allergies have side effect lists that would make an old-school D-Bol abuser blush.

I know it's a long shot, but maybe -just maybe- Some of those "Eurorip artists" know a little more about physiology than the FDA's lawyers.

Good to see you posting again veggeep. Totally agree with you on the situation with the FDA and big pharma.

Yeah I'm pretty sure this guy posted on another board under a different name but was banned in like 1 day, so I don't know how much credibility he has.

Perrynaytor


Please tell me you are kidding.

NO. Do not take STEROIDS. Eat a LOT of food, train HEAVY, and if you must, take creatine.

If you take those harsh orals at 18, you are screwed. You are way screwed for the rest of your life. Jesus.

Another thing, the real **** isn't that cheap, so if you do wind up doing it, it is going to cost you a lot more for the real thing.

BUT DON'T DO IT

although I respect your opinion and this answer I find it slightly difficult to accept you opinion of primo, or metheneolone as a "harsh oral", granted what he is referring is likely very very fake at that price, you cant buy 50 legit primobolan 5mg for 170 bucks, so its likely trash if thats what you mean.  I don't know what dura50 and thai50 is, sounds like a case of dekkaballathenealopoison from sdi...my bad.
But metheneolone, although not accepted in the medical community as a drug that imparts enough benefit to be considered as an approved medical drug it essentially has a side effect profile of non existant.  However, suppression can be seen as a side effect even though with metheneolone it takes a lot to suppress but when genuine is actually rather androgenic.
anyhow just me being knit picky trying to start an arguement. lol
But you are right, an 18 year old on what I assume to be fake deca DURAbolin as it is not oral, does this kid know that?, methandro and metheneolone, is asking for a sex change by 21.

veggeep


That's an interesting critique, odw777, and I'm eager to hear a reply myself.  I've been following bremac on another discussion about prohormones and honestly, I don't know what to make of his rambling, pseudo-scientific fearmongering.  Honestly, once you get past the professorial vocabulary, the guy has cited nothing more than his own lab experience (in... what, exactly??), and a friggin' Wikipedia article (tenuously linking Epi to chemotherapy drugs, then hedging his bet on whether the 17-methyl config rendered it a completely different compound, potentially negating his entire objection), and yet he can't even name the actives in any of the products he's poo-pooing!

I like bremac's skepticism and the fact that he doesn't trust most of the clinical trial methodologies used to assess drug safety.  But then people like that will find a problem with any scientific method.

Not to mention, I personally could give a rat f*ck what the Food & Drug Administration approves.  These are the same idiots who claim that the way General Mills markets Cheerios classifies it as a drug.  The FDA is nothing but a rubber stamp for the pharmaceutical industry and their lobbiests, who have no problem at all putting millions of Americans on psychoactive mood altering drugs, creating 4-hour boners, and researching a chemical cure for obesity.

Anyone who thinks anti-estrogenic compounds proven to reduce or even eliminate gynocomastia and mitigate breast cancer didn't get approval because of their dangers betrays a glaring naivite about the real nature of pharmaceutical research and approval in the US.  Frankly, some of the approved crap they peddle here on primetime television designed to fight insomnia, acid reflux, osteoporosis, arthritis, or even seasonal allergies have side effect lists that would make an old-school D-Bol abuser blush.

I know it's a long shot, but maybe -just maybe- Some of those "Eurorip artists" know a little more about physiology than the FDA's lawyers.

I was lucky enough to happen across this.  I'll quickly address a couple points as I'm sure most people are totally bored with me spitting out stuff that I couldn't possibly know anything about after fifteen years and three degrees including an MD as an endocrinologist working with signalling molecules.  I understand your desire to protect your chosen supplement or "legal steroid" or prosteroid.  Anyone that uses the term prosteroid obviously knows nothing of the science.  A pro-anything indicates that it is something that stimulates the release or the increase in activity of another downstream molecule.  Prolactin for instance.........do you call mothers milk protitty? prolactin is upstream of lactation.  If epivol or epiclevernameistane is what you prefer I call this stuff that is fine but I don't need to know the trade name of something that I first studied in 1993 and dismissed for my purposes of having any valuble anabolic or signifigant antiestrogenic potential aside from an anti tumor effect which it had at a highly cytotoxic cost.  Why would you take a supp that kills fast growing cells, it makes no sense unless you have breast cancer.

About the methyl, the methyl group on steroids does nothing except protect the 17 carbon and its substituents from degradation, it will impart absolutely no change in function aside from on a dosage level making one seem more powerful than the other due to change in number of molecules per given weight of material and that the methylation doesn't fully protect and some will be inactivated.

The fda has nothing to do with my opinion, I can quote the merck index if you like.  This molecule was dismissed as being too dangerous for human consumption at a dose that would be effective as antitumor in 1974.  It toxic effect carried over into healthy quickly dividing cells rendering them incapable of dna replication.

I get it though, you don't want it to bad for you because when you use it, you work out harder, eat more, get yourself to bed earlier..........gotta be that epi.

Proof is in the pudding, these scammers claimed to have invented this drug, that is a blatant lie, they waited for the patent protecting it to expire and pounced.  They took credit for someone elses work then said their "scientists" (noone says scientists) invented it.  I saw an interveiw and when asked how it was made the guy said, I don't know, all that kinda stuff is made in hormone "factories" N'STUFF.  I don't buy anything medical from a company that makes thing n'stuff.