epistane

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epistane - Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:05 PM ( #1 )
anyone who HAS run this get real moody?

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Re:epistane - Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:32 PM ( #2 )
I'll let you know
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Re:epistane - Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:44 PM ( #3 )
Creation


anyone who HAS run this get real moody?


C,
    Just so we're straight:  I was nowhere near your girl, man!  Some guys just look like me.  What can I say? 
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Re:epistane - Wednesday, September 02, 2009 1:03 PM ( #4 )
what dosage u running veg?

im currently doin 4/day
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Re:epistane - Wednesday, September 02, 2009 1:20 PM ( #5 )
yeah buddy I got moody. I was running 60mg ED for the last two weeks. Man I got strong on that stuff
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Re:epistane - Wednesday, September 02, 2009 1:47 PM ( #6 )


Oh...really now?

I just find it kind of funny that people who are preaching about the health negatives of keto are taking STEROIDS.



ironic.
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Re:epistane - Wednesday, September 02, 2009 2:44 PM ( #7 )
RollingStone


Oh...really now?

I just find it kind of funny that people who are preaching about the health negatives of keto are taking STEROIDS.



ironic.

Not ironic at all.  I just think the long-term risks of running a one month cycle of epi with PCT are lower than adhering to keto for the duration you advocate, 'Stone.

I haven't started it yet, Creation, that's what I meant by "I'll let you know".
<message edited by veggeep on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 2:46 PM>
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Re:epistane - Wednesday, September 02, 2009 3:20 PM ( #8 )
veggeep


RollingStone


Oh...really now?

I just find it kind of funny that people who are preaching about the health negatives of keto are taking STEROIDS.



ironic.

Not ironic at all.  I just think the long-term risks of running a one month cycle of epi with PCT are lower than adhering to keto for the duration you advocate, 'Stone.

I haven't started it yet, Creation, that's what I meant by "I'll let you know".


I never advocated any duration.


I thought your wonderful diet would keep tha gains coming anyway.  Why do you need help?  Theres no way you've maxed out at what 190?
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Re:epistane - Wednesday, September 02, 2009 3:22 PM ( #9 )
Oh God, here we go again.
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Re:epistane - Wednesday, September 02, 2009 3:37 PM ( #10 )
Funny, 'Stone, you never gave me that much flak about using Creatine or Whey protein

I'll allow that you may not have advocated a duration for keto (you've certainly implied it, however), if you'll concede that I never claimed to disallow legal supplementation in my arsenal.

You're grasping for contradictions where there are none.  Nice try tho.
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Re:epistane - Wednesday, September 02, 2009 3:38 PM ( #11 )
As Stone is knowledgeable, the more i read his posts, the more i realize he is a ****.
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Re:epistane - Wednesday, September 02, 2009 5:45 PM ( #12 )
legal or not, its a steroid. 
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Re:epistane - Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:10 PM ( #13 )
Admittedly.  Your point?

Oh yes, I forgot.  All steroids are fraught with inevitable, unavoidable peril.  Even the ones in my lettuce.

If the mere word is such a palpable evil to you, then I'm afraid it doesn't bode well for your LCKD diet and all the trace hormones you're getting from the animal proteins you consume in irrational volumes.
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Re:epistane - Wednesday, September 02, 2009 9:52 PM ( #14 )
Who cares who wants to do what, steroids dont instantly make you huge like everyone thinks if you have ****ty diet and ****ty workouts your gonna get the same ****ty results, but when ure diet is good lifting is good then nothing wrong with adding an anabolic compound as long as you take the proper precautions.

PS its not a steroid its a pro hormone there is a difference. Steroids = **** loads of hormones whether your body wants it or not. With pro hormones your body has to make the conversion.
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Re:epistane - Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:06 PM ( #15 )
Pro hormones tend to be more dangerous than many steroids anyways, and I think his point was that people talking bad about keto because it is hard for your body, but yet prohormones are far more dangerous.
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Re:epistane - Thursday, September 03, 2009 4:51 AM ( #16 )
That's just one of those areas I'm going to have to respectfully (believe me, I'm trying) disagree with the keto-crowd, Seoinage.  I think it's myopic to paint ALL prohormones with the same broad brush -they are not all equally potent or dangerous.  I mean, if that were the case, then the millions of over-40 men who take DHEA on their doctor's recommendation for lagging test levels should all be considered reckless abusers.

I'm simply more convinced of the long-term safety of a short EPI cycle than I am of the long-term effects of deliberate, severe macronutrient imbalance.  I think the latter places a much more pronounced strain on the body's metabolic pathways than a brief stint of mild hormonal manipulation.

As for prohormones being more dangerous than steroids en masse, I think that misconception owes to the fact that the majority of prohormones available to the public are orals, and the hoops chemists must jump through to make these compounds survive digestion makes them harder on the liver than injectables.  But that ignores the fact that there are oral steroids as well.

Epistane is favored precisely because it is touted as powerfully anti-estrogenic, mildly anabolic, and non hepatotoxic (because it is not methylated).  I have a hard time putting that profile in the same camp as D-Bol or Winstrol.
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Re:epistane - Thursday, September 03, 2009 5:06 AM ( #17 )
Noob question just out of curiosity (I'm not interested in taking steroids):  For injectables, do you inject it in the muscles you want to grow, or is it like a vaccination where it goes into one muscle but then spreads throughout the body?  I may have just answered my own question:  You'd be a pin cushion voo doo doll if you injected every muscle you wanted to grow, which is all of them!
 
edit:  Didn't think:  Is it an intramuscular or an intravenous injection?
<message edited by JMBS on Thursday, September 03, 2009 5:16 AM>
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Re:epistane - Thursday, September 03, 2009 5:50 AM ( #18 )
Well, I'm not speaking from personal experience, but injectables are all intramuscular.  If you shot an injectable steroid directly into your veins, you wouldn't be around very long to enjoy the benefits.

To the best of my knowledge, all injectable steroids are oils -the idea being that once injected into muscle tissue, it takes several days to dissipate into the bloodstream, supplying a slow trickle of hormones.

Greg Valentino experimented quite heavily with site-specific injections, and proved (with rather disgusting efficacy) that you can indeed target the effects of certain steroids to specific muscles.
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Re:epistane - Thursday, September 03, 2009 5:51 AM ( #19 )
It's intramuscular. I would suggest an injection into the ass. It's the biggest muscle.
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Re:epistane - Thursday, September 03, 2009 6:09 AM ( #20 )
Honestly mate I was a little more agitated on that stuff but it just sucked big time when it came to any kind of strength increase or gains. I see all these cautious people on forums saying ''Oh I will just run it at ten mgs for week one to be careful'' and think to myself you may as well just go and fist yourself then expect anything from that. I'd probably say you need to run it at 60 to notice anything at all but I don't really hold back on dosages when it comes to OTC Ph's/steroids, though I expect when I get onto Superdrol I will be a bit more cautious. 
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Re:epistane - Thursday, September 03, 2009 8:49 AM ( #21 )
People take it at 10 the first day to check for sides and most importantly allergic reactions.  Taking 60mg on the first day and finding out you are allergic would be retarded.
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Re:epistane - Thursday, September 03, 2009 9:13 AM ( #22 )
Yes I took ten for the first day but for a whole week is pointless.
''If one is after quick results one never learns an art.''

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Re:epistane - Thursday, September 03, 2009 9:21 AM ( #23 )
I know I shouldn't laugh, Chalky, but for some reason that cracked me up  Judging by what I've read on other boards, there are a LOT of really careless peple out there willing to jump on Epi/Havoc without doing even ten seconds of research.
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Re:epistane - Thursday, September 03, 2009 9:35 AM ( #24 )
Hmmm ok so i read a little bit on this product but maybe yall can break it down easier for me, i dont trust a whole lot of sites mainly because they are saying **** for sales purposes. But i saw that it comes in a 90 capsule supply, but i hear yall talking about injecting it?

This is a prohormonal product?
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Re:epistane - Thursday, September 03, 2009 9:37 AM ( #25 )
they are caps, the injection talk was off topic
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Re:epistane - Thursday, September 03, 2009 9:59 AM ( #26 )
Taking a prohormone or steroid correctly as I'm sure veg will and there isn't much of anything to worry about. Steroids abuse is what hurts people, not use. If I'm implied and used correctly at the right time.
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Re:epistane - Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:09 AM ( #27 )
for those wanting to try epi  this stuff is on super good sale

http://www.tfsupplement...product_detail&p=381

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Re:epistane - Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:37 AM ( #28 )
Chalky Palms


they are caps, the injection talk was off topic


I think I'm the one who brought up questions about injection.  I'm living up to my new title!  ;)
Seriously, I didn't mean to veer off topic.  Veg implied the Epi was injectible because he said orals
are unsafe because they have to be made stronger to survive digestion or something.  Veg, do
you have capsules or an injectible solution?  If they're caps, what was your post all about?
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Re:epistane - Thursday, September 03, 2009 11:41 AM ( #29 )
JMBS


Chalky Palms


they are caps, the injection talk was off topic


I think I'm the one who brought up questions about injection.  I'm living up to my new title!  ;)
Seriously, I didn't mean to veer off topic.  Veg implied the Epi was injectible because he said orals
are unsafe because they have to be made stronger to survive digestion or something.  Veg, do
you have capsules or an injectible solution?  If they're caps, what was your post all about?


It's all about a dangling modifer... let me rephrase:

As for prohormones being more dangerous than steroids en masse, I think that misconception owes to the fact that the majority of prohormones available to the public are orals, and the hoops chemists must jump through to make these compounds survive digestion makes them harder on the liver than injectable steroids.  But that ignores the fact that there are oral steroids as well.

I was trying to diffuse a faulty syllogism:

"Oral steroids are more dangerous than injectable ones (because of the added hepatotoxicity), and most prohormones are oral; therefore most prohormones are more dangerous than [injectable] steroids."  This falsely assumes that all prohormones are alkylated (and therefor hepatotoxic), just because they are oral.

The point is, some prohormones can survive digestion and affect the target androgen receptors without being alkylated and hence not be more dangerous than their elicit counterparts.  They certainly don't include any of the OTHER risks associated with needle use, which (IMO) just adds another horrifying level of uncertainty to the bargain.

We've got to be more specific when we toss around terms like "Steroid", and avoid lumping all anabolic supplements under the same umbrella.  That kind of hysteria is better left to the unwashed masses
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Re:epistane - Thursday, September 03, 2009 12:27 PM ( #30 )
oh....I see.   Why didn't you just say that in the first place?!  j/k!

Any risk of sterility or birth defects (from either mother's side or father's) from this stuff?
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