dirty bulk

i've decided am gonna do a dirty bulk what do u think of what i'll eating mcdonalds candy after meals an ice cream sandwichs an a bunch of milkan other foods to. what are some of the foods you ate for bulking?

I wouldn't do that. Try to keep it 80% clean at least. That's what I do and gain pretty nicely in a muscle to fat ratio.

Eating unnecessary amounts of grease and sugar can really put on the fat.  Even if you are "dirty" bulking I would aim for large amounts of quality food.  What ever will promote the most muscle gain, not just layering on the fat. When you think "dirty" just think oh I can have freedom on what I eat, and I need to eat so much I gain weight fast, but it still has to be mostly muscle building food.  So quality meats veggies and fats, as well as complex carbohydrates.

http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/Seos-Log-2008-m442008.aspx

Personally I'd just eat a ton of food.  At least a gram per lb. of bodyweight, lots of carbs, and lots of fats.

Things to avoid would be anything with sugar in it and any white carb (bread, pasta, etc...)

Eat tons of steak, chicken, milk, eggs, peanut butter, almonds, vegetables, oatmeal, fruit, etc...

Now a 'dirty bulk' doesn't mean to eat crappy foods, although people commonly mistake dirty bulking for that.  Dirty bulking just means that you eat a lot and you don't worry about calories or macros.

Clean bulking is where you shoot for 1 lb./week of bodyweight gain, and you carefully count your calories and macronutrients, and you time everything very precisely.

I'm a fan of dirty bulking myself, but it can lead to more fat gains.  The benefits of dirty bulking outweight the negatives though (extra fat gains) IMO.  Mainly it maximizes strength gains and recovery.  When people clean bulk, they tend to worry too much about gaining fat, and that in turn doesn't allow them to get the maximum strength and recovery benefits of a good quality bulk.  Now, if you're really careful about it, you can get optimal results from clean bulking, but I don't feel that it's necessary to carefully count out all my calories and macronutrients.  I just lift heavy a** weights and eat a ton of food.  The fat is easy to cut off once it comes that time.

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

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I think it's pointless and Bri, I disagree with your definition of dirty and clean bulk. Clean bulk to me is low sugar, little saturated fat and preferably no hydrogenated fat in your diet. Dirty is not caring how much of those are included in your diet. You can still eat healthily and have too much of these in your diet. Depending on how much of these you consume, I think, determines a clean or dirty bulk. Calorie counting doesn't come into it imo.

I also disagree that gains come better with a dirty bulk than a clean one, if you're providing your body with X amount of pro/carb/fat and little sugar and saturated fat in one scenario. And in another scenario providing your body with the exact same amounts but a large portion of that fat is from saturate and sugar, I don't see why that would aid gains or recovery, and if anything think it would harm gains.

V,
    You're the Clipart Photoshop GOD!

 

haha why are you asking, just get super high then eat everything in sight..welcome to the dirty bulk..

if you are gonna dirty bulk i high recommend doing 15-30minutes decent heart rate cardio to keep your heart in good shape cause sounds like you'll be getting alot of saturated fats haha

YOU GOTTA EAT BIG, TO BE BIG!!

NASM certified trainer
NFPT certified trainer

Winter Bulk goal:245-250 by dec 31
Current weight: 235

_Virtuoso_


I also disagree that gains come better with a dirty bulk than a clean one, if you're providing your body with X amount of pro/carb/fat and little sugar and saturated fat in one scenario. And in another scenario providing your body with the exact same amounts but a large portion of that fat is from saturate and sugar, I don't see why that would aid gains or recovery, and if anything think it would harm gains.

That's why I said by my definition of a 'dirty bulk', which is that you can still eat clean, but you just don't count calories and exact macros in order to minimize fat gains.  The way I see it is you make sure you are getting enough protien (1 gram/lb.) and just eat a ton of other healthy carbs and fats.  If your goal is to gain 25 lbs., just get to that weight (by eating a ton of healthy foods, but not being super precise about it - aka 'clean bulking').
 
This way allows you to listen to your body rather then go strictly 'by the numbers'.  And any additional calories (which you're more likely to get by 'dirty' bulking then 'clean' bulking) will be used for recovery...anything else will be stored as fat.  People that clean bulk tend to err on the side of JUST enough calories to be in a surplus as opposed to MORE then enough.  'More then enough' guarantees you that you are getting all the nutrients you need for muscle building and recovery, 'just enough' usually isn't enough.....
 
Also, I like to keep things simple, because they usually are.

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

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i think the initial post is taking the p1ss. in fact, im pretty sure of it.

anyway, dirty bulking is a terrible idea. you gan about 5% quality mass and lose (and more) that when it comes to cutting your excess.

Bench Press Max - 170kg @ 100kg
Squat Max - 220kg @100kg
Deadlift Max - 275kg @100kg

Weight - 90kg

bacon, cheese, pig's lard's, soda....

leeman


i think the initial post is taking the p1ss. in fact, im pretty sure of it.

anyway, dirty bulking is a terrible idea. you gan about 5% quality mass and lose (and more) that when it comes to cutting your excess.

That's assuming that by 'dirty bulking' you mean eating a bunch of junk food, then yes, that would be a bad idea.

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

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hillbillyfred


i've decided am gonna do a dirty bulk what do u think of what i'll eating mcdonalds candy after meals an ice cream sandwichs an a bunch of milkan other foods to. what are some of the foods you ate for bulking?

thats not a dirty bulk, that's just eating crap.

You need food with nutritional value, that's actually gonna give you the nutrients to support growth.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

by dirty i mean stuff like mcdonalds an tv dinners an ice cream stuff like that an tuna an cheese things of that nature an i'll drink nothin but milk an water an ice tea 

hillbillyfred


by dirty i mean stuff like mcdonalds an tv dinners an ice cream stuff like that an tuna an cheese things of that nature an i'll drink nothin but milk an water an ice tea 

We know what you meant, you said the same thing in the first post. By eating that way, you're not really helping yourself out at all lol. You'll just load on serious amounts of fat.


Like RS said, you need food with good nutritional value to grow.


Start reading on how to bulk the right way.

5'7" - 20 - 195lbs

did'nt RS  do a bulk on mcdonalds i  believe i read that some where

hillbillyfred


did'nt RS  do a bulk on mcdonalds i  believe i read that some where

its not the only thing I ate.  And I was a skinny bastard with no muscle around 8% bf.  And I still wasnt eating ice cream and drinking iced tea...

The worst thing I ate was the buns which the sandwhiches came on.

If I could go back,  I would've done it cleaner anyway.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

hillbillyfred


did'nt RS  do a bulk on mcdonalds i  believe i read that some where

HBF,
   If memory serves, and wait to hear from him, his first bulk was like 50 lb or something.  As I recall he gained a lot of muscle but also a non-trivial amount of fat if I remember right.  Just remember that whatever fat you put on with the bulk is going to have to be taken off during the cut.  The more fat to get rid of on the cut, means more time to lose muscle as well.  The saner and more productive approach, imo, is a slow clean bulk, followed by a slow muscle-sparing cut.  Imo, there's nothing wrong w/McDonald's now and then (I should don the silver suit now!) but just don't make it the staple of your diet.
    HBF, refresh my memory:  What are your stats (age, weight, height).  You've been at this and serious for a while now.  What results are you seeing?  Good workin' out!  :)

RollingStone

hillbillyfred


did'nt RS  do a bulk on mcdonalds i  believe i read that some where

its not the only thing I ate.  And I was a skinny bastard with no muscle around 8% bf.  And I still wasnt eating ice cream and drinking iced tea...

The worst thing I ate was the buns which the sandwhiches came on.

If I could go back,  I would've done it cleaner anyway.

i was going by what i read i don't see anything wrong with a bottle of tea once in n while or a ice cream sandwich but that's just me. what kind of food is clean

The main problem from my dietary point of view, by doing what you purpose, is that while you are consuming a vast quantity of calories, very little of those calories, would be coming from actual nutrient dense food.

Everything you have listed is highly processed, full of additives, preservatives, chemical, and modified fats, and sugars. A large amount of empty calories, or energy. The type of stuff that your body is going to have a hard time processing into anything other than stored energy, or fat.

An easy way to now your eating even remotely clean is to look at all the ingredients in the food you are eating. You should be able to get the food back to it's natural state in 3 steps or less... Either growing plant, or breathing animal. Cut out as much as possible the preservatives, additives, anything you have to break into syllables to pronounce,  You also need to eat a variety of vegetables, and whole grains, difficult to find in the list you just offered...

Food is more than just calories...

Bottle tea is crap... brewed tea... iced by yourself... that is a different story (even if you choose to sugar it, with real sugar), sweetened with honey, or stevia.

There is no point in consuming an excess amount of calories. Over consuming by 1000 calories will not give you anymore muscle than overeating by 10, just a whole lot more calories to potentially store around your waist.

thehardway


Bottle tea is crap... brewed tea... iced by yourself... that is a different story (even if you choose to sugar it, with real sugar), sweetened with honey, or stevia.

very true though I don't take sugar in my tea or my coffee.

If you don't like plain brewed tea than look for some that are flavored ice tea bags that contain no sugar. My favorite is peach iced tea, I probably drink a half gallon of ice tea each day.

Question about eating over maintenance and hypertrophy:  How efficient is the body at using available calories for muscle building?  I know you need the right protein, amino acids, and hormones.  But what about the carbohydrates and fats, the excess of which will likely be stored as fat?  Example, lets say I eat 500 cal over maintenance and my body uses 300 of those to build new muscle.  If I cut down 200 calories so I'm 300 over maintenance, will all of those 300 be used for muscle and none get stored as fat?  Or is there some inefficiency where only a percentage of calories over maintenance will get used to build muscle and there will always be some fat storage if you're over maintenance?

See this is coming from a guy who believes that when bulking, you should take FULL advantage of the strength gaining potential.  It's a HELL of a lot easier to get stronger when eating in a surplus of calories....

Now when getting stronger, you NEED recovery.  You need food and rest.  Not having enough of either one of these will hinder you in getting stronger.  So when faced with the decision to eat just enough or more then enough, I'd personally choose more then enough to GUARANTEE that I'm getting the full recovery benefits, which will allow me to keep getting stronger.

Now, if I happen to to gain a little bit of fat due to the excess calories that were not used for recovery and hypertrophy, it's not a huge deal because with all the strength and muscle gains I know the fat will come right off.

On the other hand, if I happen to eat too little, and it results in a faster stall then I would have had if I would have ate more then enough.....well then I wouldn't be happy with that.

Also eating exactly 500 over maintainence is not so simple either.  Your maintainence is constantly changing - your activities differ each day, as your strength and conditioning increases so does your maintainence.  Just eating LOTS of (good) food will make you gain weight....if you're really concerned about gaining too much fat then limit your gaining to 1 lb/week.  If you realize you're gaining too fast, eat less.  Just make sure your a** is gaining weight.

But when I bulk, it's purely for strength gaining purposes.  Keeping a low bf% is only secondary to getting as strong as I can.

Getting strong is hard.  Losing fat is easy.

PS - by 'dirty bulking' with all clean foods, and keeping the training intense and consistent, fat gains will be very minimal anyway.

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117358

JMBS - You pretty much answered your own question.

"Or is there some inefficiency where only a percentage of calories over maintenance will get used to build muscle and there will always be some fat storage if you're over maintenance?"

Any energy not currently being used is stored in a variety of methods.  Muscle glycogen for fast energy, ATP or fat that can be converted to energy later.  Technically anything not needed at the time is stored.

In most cases, you only need to consume the amount of calories necessary to build muscle/gain weight at that time.  People who constantly over-eat are not any stronger or more efficient than those who just eat what they need at the specific times they need it.  As Bri pointed out, you'll just end up fatter if you over consume more calories than you need.

If you keep the fat to a minimum and stay 15% body fat at max, then getting ready for a show is easier than the person who bulks to 20% thinking.. "Ah losing fat is no problem" and then has to take MONTHS to do so and loses more muscle in the process.

There is a big hidden benefit for the bodybuilder who stays leaner (not ripped) all year.

* Really liked your post Bri.. you've come a long way *

Marc C. David - NGA CPT
Author of NoBull Bodybuilding
www.nobullbodybuilding.com

Marc David


JMBS - You pretty much answered your own question.

"Or is there some inefficiency where only a percentage of calories over maintenance will get used to build muscle and there will always be some fat storage if you're over maintenance?"

Any energy not currently being used is stored in a variety of methods.  Muscle glycogen for fast energy, ATP or fat that can be converted to energy later.  Technically anything not needed at the time is stored.

In most cases, you only need to consume the amount of calories necessary to build muscle/gain weight at that time.  People who constantly over-eat are not any stronger or more efficient than those who just eat what they need at the specific times they need it.  As Bri pointed out, you'll just end up fatter if you over consume more calories than you need.

If you keep the fat to a minimum and stay 15% body fat at max, then getting ready for a show is easier than the person who bulks to 20% thinking.. "Ah losing fat is no problem" and then has to take MONTHS to do so and loses more muscle in the process.

There is a big hidden benefit for the bodybuilder who stays leaner (not ripped) all year.

* Really liked your post Bri.. you've come a long way *

Thanks Marc.  Again, my bulking philosophy is always geared towards gaining as much strength as possible, which I believe leads to maximum hypertrophy POTENTIAL, but not necessarily maximum hypertrophy in itself (IOW training purely for strength does not directly correlate to maximum hypertrophy, but stronger muscles have much more potential to "blow up" once subjected to hypertrophy specific training then weaker muscles do).   This is why I like to look at a bulk as a means to take advantage of easier strength gains.
 
By all means try to keep fat gains to a minimum, but I would never sacrifice potential extra strength gains/recovery due to fear of a little extra fat gain.

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

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brihead301




Getting strong is hard.  Losing fat is easy.

Hell. Yeah.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

Marc David


JMBS - You pretty much answered your own question.

"Or is there some inefficiency where only a percentage of calories over maintenance will get used to build muscle and there will always be some fat storage if you're over maintenance?"

Any energy not currently being used is stored in a variety of methods.  Muscle glycogen for fast energy, ATP or fat that can be converted to energy later.  Technically anything not needed at the time is stored.

In most cases, you only need to consume the amount of calories necessary to build muscle/gain weight at that time.  People who constantly over-eat are not any stronger or more efficient than those who just eat what they need at the specific times they need it.  As Bri pointed out, you'll just end up fatter if you over consume more calories than you need.

If you keep the fat to a minimum and stay 15% body fat at max, then getting ready for a show is easier than the person who bulks to 20% thinking.. "Ah losing fat is no problem" and then has to take MONTHS to do so and loses more muscle in the process.

There is a big hidden benefit for the bodybuilder who stays leaner (not ripped) all year.

* Really liked your post Bri.. you've come a long way *

Thanks Bri and Marc,
    I fear I'm at least 20% (or more) now!  But that's at age 46.  That equates to 15% if I were in my 20s.  Obviously I can't do much about the additional fat around my internal organs because I'm older.  And that internal fat doesn't really show aesthetically anyway, right?  Is a 46 year old BBer expected to cut to 5%?!  I'll bet if my calipers/scale/charts read 10% I'd look pretty damn good.  I think most posters on DBB being young cats makes people forget age as a factor in internal fat accumulation.  Which is why I think the mirror is actually a better measuring tape, if you will.  Even tape measurements don't tell the story of symmetry, how those size muscles hang on a particular size and shape body, and how much subcutaneous fat is adding inches to those numbers.  I'm actually of the opinion I'm still sort of in the "newbie gains" period as far as hypertrophy goes because, like many many others I'm sure, I was totally clueless regarding how caloric intake over maintenance was THE VITAL part of the equation.  And progressive resistance and lots of sleep too!!  Nobody's commenting that I'm fat, though I'm sure I've accumulated a non-trivial amount.  All the comments I'm getting are about the obvious muscle gains.  So as long as those gains are substantial, I think I'll take some fat, even if the scale says 25%.  I know I've got to do a cut which I've never done before, but I feel I need to pack substantial mass on my back and legs if I'm to come close to my potential.  After I do that for three months, then I'll try a muscle-sparing cut. 
   Some of what you guys keep saying about losing muscle on the cut is scaring me.  There are ways to do it and spare most of the muscle gains, right?  What, in a nutshell so I can plan ahead a little, will I need to be doing?  Calories under maintenance, hoping workouts will be with heavy (as possible) weights so body doesn't feel it can spare muscle, that I'll be able to refine and sculpt as well during that time, practice posing (does that burn fat or muscle?), and do substantial cardio (HIIT I'm guessing).  Any advice would be appreciated!  If I'm an ecto and have been able to gain in a controlled way (more muscle than fat), will I in all likelihood be able to cut in a controlled way that will shed mostly fat and not muscle?  That's what I've been led to believe, but want to be sure.  Thx guys!  :)

It's very easy to lose fat on a cut without losing muscle.  All you have to do is keep lifting HEAVY and add in some higher rep range/high volume work (hypertrophy stuff) along with the lower volume, HEAVY stuff.

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

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brihead301


It's very easy to lose fat on a cut without losing muscle.  All you have to do is keep lifting HEAVY and add in some higher rep range/high volume work (hypertrophy stuff) along with the lower volume, HEAVY stuff.

Bri,
   Very encouraging!  Thanks!  And lots of HIIT or does the fat just melt off an ecto (dreaming!) if calories are below maintenance?  I'm okay with LISS but will that do an ecto any good or will I sacrifice more muscle because of time in catabolic state?  Thx!

It can be done 100% by simply manipulating your diet.  Cardio just helps burn more calories and raise your metabolism (which speeds things up).

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

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