can any ectomorphs advise!?

so I'm looking to do a higher volume program right now,transitioning from a high volume full body to preferably a high volume split. What higher volume program's do all you ectomorphs use to gain the most muscle mass? Are 4/5 day splits even worth it, or would like a 3 day split/full body be the best way to go? I can't see how only working one muscle group a week would be productive for a hardgainer.

nomis_simon


so I'm looking to do a higher volume program right now,transitioning from a high volume full body to preferably a high volume split. What higher volume program's do all you ectomorphs use to gain the most muscle mass? Are 4/5 day splits even worth it, or would like a 3 day split/full body be the best way to go? I can't see how only working one muscle group a week would be productive for a hardgainer.

Youre correct.  Youll make the best gains hitting everything 3 times a week.  If you want to do higher volume split your upper and lower body and do 3 days of upper body and 3 days of lower body a week with sunday or some other day off.  Thats how Ive made my best gains.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

NS,
    I'm an ecto, but there are far more knowledgeable folks than me to give you a scientifically based answer, but here are my 2 cents:  I've just spent 4 weeks on a 4 day split (plus one rest day).  While I got something out of it, my concern is that the volume was too high for me as an ecto.  I spent 90 min. or more per workout.  From what I've read ectos should spend no more than 60 min per workout, 45 min. being even better.  Any more than that expends too many precious calories (that could be used to build muscle) and puts your body into a catabolic (muscles sacrificed for energy, bad) state for longer than necessary.  My fellow DBers can advise you whether any high volume program is appropriate for an ecto.  My understanding is short and intense are best for ectos.
    I'm going to try to move from the 5 w/o's a week to 3 or 4.  I'm thinking of either a push/pull/legs with 4 w/o's/week (Mon Tue Thu Fri), or something I just read about which might work for me which is HST (Hypertrophy Specific Training).  That's a full body 1 or 2 working sets per exercise 3 days a week program.  Another program I'm looking at is SAIS (Specific Adaptation to Imposed Stress) which is interesting in that each workout addresses the fast-, intermediate-, and slow-twitch fibers of each muscle.
    The other guys will tell you it would be helpful if you provided some stats and photos so we can better assess where you are, and given your goals, give you some better advice for how to get there.  Good luck!

NS,
    If you haven't already read it, I found this article to be helpful:

http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/For-Gaining-Mass-m111173.aspx

The article, and everyone on this site!,  will tell you that nutrition plays at least as big a role as exercise for gaining muscle.

EXERCISE SETS REPS Bench Press 3 8-12 Incline Press 3 8-12 Barbell Rows 3 8-12 Upright Rows 3 8-12 Squats 3 8-12 Stiff Legged Deadlifts 3 8-12 Lying Tricep Ext. 3 8-12 Dumbell Kickbacks 3 8-12 Barbell Curls 3 8-12 Concentration Curls 3 8-12  
this is done 3 days a week. is it bad? overtraining? i doubt it would be but what do you think?

I think DC would really get it done for a bulking ecto.  Go in, hit it hard, out within a half hour for me on most days.  That or HST would be another good one.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

Yeah, something like DC or HST should work well.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

http://www.discussbodyb...ype-Routine-m369597.aspx

Very good HST routine. I did it with pretty good results. 

Red PittBull's Log.

MVP


Yeah, something like DC or HST should work well.

Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST) is a method of strength training intended to induce muscle growth, or hypertrophy, in its practitioners. The method was popularized following an October 2000 ThinkMuscle newsletter article by fitness writer Bryan Hay****, which discussed methods he and his clients had been using for several years. Hay**** says that the training method arose out of "physiological principles of hypertrophy discovered in the laboratory," and that these principles were then organized into a weight training method meant to induce hypertrophy.[1]


Strategic Deconditioning: To continue hypertrophy, the load must be temporarily eliminated, to allow the muscle to "Decondition" and allow hypertrophic response to training once again. This process happens after the end of a 6-8 week "cycle" and can last from 9–14 days preceding a new "cycle".


Progressively Adjusting reps to accommodate Progressive Load: HST suggests that you change how many exercise repetitions you perform every 2 weeks, to accommodate the ever increasing load. Most "HST" programs start with a 15 rep, 2 week "semi-cycle" that is performed over six workouts with the sixth workout being at the exercisers maximum weight. The next semi-cycle, reps are reduced to 10, then 5, finally ending with a repeat of the 5 rep cycle, or eccentric repetitions. Each semi-cycle adds to equal one full 8 week cycle.



So hypertrophy routines don't exist, according to you MVP, although the HST program you have just recommended is deemed a 'hypertrophy' routine (it's even in the name), and contains all the variations and rules I mentioned including an 8 week cycle with 2 week semi cycles, adjusting from higher rep ranges of 15 to lower rep ranges of 5 performing your maxes for each. So this is exactly everything I said a hypertrophy routine was, and it is indeed thought to induce hypertrophy better than a standard routine. This is a routine you have just recommended after days of telling me I'm incorrect?


Infact if you look above at the link pitbull just posted, smound even put a HST routine together primarily for gaining mass following these basic principles.

V,
    You're the Clipart Photoshop GOD!

 

I recommended HST because it's a good program, not because it's magical for gaining mass. You won't and can't gain it without the calorie surplus, this makes the calorie surplus the source of mass gain. No routine will be for hypertrophy without excessive calorie consumption. Go look at the thread Perry just posted, it proves my point.

Without calories muscle has nothing to grow from, your body doesn't grow from the outside, it grows from the inside. Muscle thickens in diameter when fed the proper nutrients. They need glucose and fatty acids to produce ATP, and they need protein to repair. Without being recuperated or fed properly they are not capable of increasing in size which is hypertrophy.

HST is a good routine, but it won't put hypertrophy on you unless your diet is right. I recommend it because it's a good program.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

nomis_simon, can you tell us more about your training history?

As you guys engage in your informed debate about hypertrophy, diet, and routine, I (and perhaps many others) are the beneficiaries of your knowledge.  I'm looking forward to trying HST myself as it looks promising for me as an ecto.  Thanks for all of your expertise!

HST, DFHT, Max-OT, and DC are all great programs. Sling shot training seems ok too.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant