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best supplement - 1/10/2005 1:02:31 PM
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djfunkebeeetz
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I was thinking about taking m1t but i don't want to mess around with steroids, for anyone who's had experience, is there any safer replacement to m1t? I've taken no2 and creatine in the past, is there anything that will produce more gains than those but is safer than pumping all that extra testosterone into your body?
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RE: best supplement - 1/10/2005 1:30:05 PM
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Powerhaus
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HMB is one of the few supplements to actually show some net benefit in lean muscle mass in double blind studies.
Creatine increases strength and mass, but the increased strenth is chemical, and the mass is water. Though being stronger does help you lift more, and therefore build more "real" muscle.
Though I wouldn't worry about the risks from m1t...they're proportional to its benefit, which compared to real testosterone is negligent.
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RE: best supplement - 1/10/2005 6:30:03 PM
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Twin Peak
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Powerhaus
HMB is one of the few supplements to actually show some net benefit in lean muscle mass in double blind studies.
Creatine increases strength and mass, but the increased strenth is chemical, and the mass is water. Though being stronger does help you lift more, and therefore build more "real" muscle.
Though I wouldn't worry about the risks from m1t...they're proportional to its benefit, which compared to real testosterone is negligent.
I am not sure I can agree with this, on many levels.
HMB has shown to be very unpractical, producing little results unless mega-dosed, making it quite expensive.
Creatine is also better than you seem to think (for most that is, for me it does little). Try Creatine Ethyl Ester, I have not tried it yet but will soon.
On M1T -- wow. M1T is highly hepatoxic, and not something that should be taken cavalierly. It has also been shown to be one of the most supressive steroids ever made.
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RE: best supplement - 1/11/2005 5:59:39 AM
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Naviator
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Welcome to DB, funky one. First of all, why do you want to try a prohormone? What does your diet and workout plan look like? Are you getting enough rest? Are you making gains with your current plan?
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RE: best supplement - 1/11/2005 6:43:22 AM
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Twin Peak
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Its been a while.
So, absent a double blind study you are not willing note significant potential for danger? The fact that dozens of people have reported problems, many well known chemists have indicated its toxicity based on its chemical structure, and the handful of individuals who have used M1T and had blood drawn and shown highly increase liver values, t shutdown, and dangerous cholesterol levels as well as blood pressure does not give you pause?
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(in reply to djfunkebeeetz)
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RE: best supplement - 1/11/2005 8:10:58 AM
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Marc David
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Again...
How many supplements have any studies done?
From what I've read and heard, M1T is pretty much an oral steroid. Technically should be banned just like real testosterone but somehow makes it thru a current loophole.
Correct me if I am wrong in this assumption please.
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RE: best supplement - 1/11/2005 8:19:59 AM
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Naviator
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In a few days it won't matter.
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RE: best supplement - 1/11/2005 8:33:54 AM
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Powerhaus
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Twin, seems like we've had this discussion before. Without a double-blind study, it's not scienficly verfied. These companies have mroe than enough money to run studies, they just don't, most likely because the wouldn't like the results.
M1T is marketed as "almost an oral steroid", but that's nonsesne. If you know anything about steroids, you know that oral steroids have to be processed int he liver and are therefore more toxic than injected ones. Yet they makters of this supplement want you to think that it's some magic new pill that's legal, has "almost" all the benefits of a steroid, and none of the side effects. *cough* BS *cough*
It's the same story over and over again, the acronym for the product just keeps changing.
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RE: best supplement - 1/11/2005 8:39:37 AM
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Marc David
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quote:
If you know anything about steroids, you know that oral steroids have to be processed int he liver and are therefore more toxic than injected ones.
Right. So how could you say:
quote:
Though I wouldn't worry about the risks from m1t...they're proportional to its benefit, which compared to real testosterone is negligent.
I think M1T is probably more toxic then injectable steroid.
M1T probably gets less benefits then real injectables yet more risks.
quote:
These companies have more than enough money to run studies, they just don't, most likely because the wouldn't like the results.
Untrue. It costs more money then most would assume to run these studies. And it takes a LOT of time. By the time you developed the product, got it tested, ran the studies, you'd be looking at coming to market in 10 years. Look at the biotech industry.
These guys spend millions of dollars in development work. Run hundreds of studies and tests. And it takes many years before FDA approval and the product hits the market.
Would anybody who's looking for diet supplements wait 10 years for long-term studies to be done on a product? No.
The consumers don't really want to wait, and the industry isn't regulated like that. Nor do the companies that are developing the products have the money to run these studies. The ones they do are never really accepted by the population anyway.
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RE: best supplement - 1/11/2005 8:43:07 AM
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Powerhaus
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I am saying if M1T was for real, it would be more toxic than an injectable steroid. I don't belive it's for real.
quote:
The consumers don't really want to wait, and the industry isn't regulated like that. Sounds like the patent medicine arguments from the early 1900's. That's why we have the FDA now. Personally, I think supplement companies should have some hard data before they make wild claims.
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RE: best supplement - 1/11/2005 6:14:56 PM
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Twin Peak
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Perfect answer Marc.
How about I send you a bottle of M1T and you run it at 30 mgs a day for 4 weeks. Then you will see what is "for real."
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(in reply to Powerhaus)
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RE: best supplement - 1/11/2005 6:17:28 PM
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Twin Peak
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Also, even if you don't believe its "for real" the potential hazards based on anecdotal feedback from users should be enough that as a moderator you don't talk about this stuff as if its sugar water.
There is a reason why it will be illegal in a few days.
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(in reply to Twin Peak)
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RE: best supplement - 1/13/2005 3:51:16 PM
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evilbroderick
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Joined: 1/13/2005
From: new jersey
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is this stuff the real deal or not? how long do you take it for? how many mg's per day? i hear many different "views" on this product....
(in reply to the bull)
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