benching twice a day...is this ok?

i thought i'd ask before i act...if i were to do upper body workouts such as benching and then in the evening do it again is this ok or is this bad?

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No, it'll affect your recovery.

Benching 2X per week is fine, but AM benching and PM benching isn't.

You ideally want to give your muscle tissue 48 hours before you train it again according to my training manual.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Post your full workout routine so we can have a picture of what you have.

5'8.1"
Age = 20 
started in February 16th 2007: 58kg (127.6lbs)
current : around 79-80kg (173.8lb-176lb)

theres no need in benching twice a day, you dont get stronger and bigger while lifting.  Your gains come when you're resting

you could do bench in the morning and another chest exercise at night but i wouldnt do bench twice.

MVP


No, it'll affect your recovery.

Benching 2X per week is fine, but AM benching and PM benching isn't.

You ideally want to give your muscle tissue 48 hours before you train it again according to my training manual.

MVP's absolutely right.  Rest is extremely important.  People who are overworkign their muscles are the ones who don't make progress.  When it comes to your pecs (the largest muscle in your upper body) I wouldn't work them more than once per week.  It takes muscles this large a lot of energy and time to recover if you're working them hard. *This is obv different if you're doing full body workouts that only do one or two exercised per muscle*  Muscles like your forearms, biceps, calves, etc. are fairly small and can be worked more than once a week.  But like MVP said, DO NOT work any muscle more than once per day if you want to get results.

theres no need in benching twice a day, you dont get stronger and bigger while lifting. Your gains come when you're resting

  dido so true..

DONT BLAME THE PITBULL TRAIN THE PITBULL .BAN THE DEED NOT THE BREED.... OH YES MY GRAMR AND SPELNG SUCK AZZ...I KNOW.. THERE ARE NO BAD DOGS.JUST BAD OWNERS...

I'm going to disagree with everyone who is saying it's not OK to bench twice a day..

Benching twice a day is perfectly fine, other than the inconvenience..  assuming you didn't get the volume in on the first workout..   Or, you want to go heavy on flat in the AM and then heavy on incline in the PM.. 

 
You'll be perfectly fine.. as long as you give your muscles a day or two to recover..before doing it again...  But I can't imagine why anyone would need to bench two times in a single day?  but I guess you must have your reasons..

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

I don't see the point of benching twice a day...
Pure waste of time...

Anyways, I agree with MVP, you will affect your recovery since the chest is one major and minor muscle group with the same origins and insertions...hence...either flat, incline and decline work almost the same thing

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

the reason for me asking is it ok if i bench twice a day is because of football...i have football conditioning in the mrning and they have us bench and work out and i have to do thier routine but i have my own routine at home thats why i was wandering if it was ok
 
so its ok for me to work upper body twice a-day as long as i rest or what?

d-end  for jhs cougars   
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If your coach has you doing the same exercise 2X per week, demand a new coach. That is an ignorant suggestion. Tell him to visit www.discussbodybuilding.com and educate the members here on why it is necessary to train a certain movement 2X per day, that is the best way to stop you from making gains, not influence gains.    

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

So besides recover issues, one of which i don't completely understand.. what are the other reasons from discouraging someone from benching, two times in the same day..

Two reasons I can think of right off the top of my head would be..
1: Time factor, not being able to do an appropriate amount of damage to the muscles..

2: As mentioned before.. wanting to maximize a heavy day.. something that is often practiced by advanced lifters.. If for some reason I'm wanting to totally destroy the upper head of the pec.. I might do a heavy morning session with flat pressing and then later in the day, follow up with a heavy session on incline.. By doing so allows my body to recuperate just long enough so I am able to take full advantage and really push the incline hard...

But as far as suppressing muscle growth.. I don't think it's going to do any harm as long as the lifts are performed within the same 8-12 hour period.. and then the body is allowed to heal for 36 hrs before training that muscle group again..

Just a side note.. Honestly.. I don't think I would personally advise anyone to hit a muscle group two times in the same day.. It's too easy to appropriately work a muscle in one session.. but I just want to play devils advocate on this.. mostly due to the fact I honestly don't think it would hinder growth or recover..

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

I think he'd be better off doing inclines on Wednesday, flats on Monday and dips on Friday if chest frequency is the preference.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the muscle being trained while still recovering, as long as the volume and intensity are adjusted as necessary. But 48 hours later I could see someone training, but inclines wouldn't be capable of working optimal due to previous damage, therefore I'd say it wouldn't be ideal.

Waiting a long period of time to train muscle is useless... but you should ideally let muscle tissue repair sufficiently before training it again - about 48 hours later, give or take.

Wouldn't AM conditioning be like cardio or football specific training?

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

MVP


If your coach has you doing the same exercise 2X per week, demand a new coach. That is an ignorant suggestion. Tell him to visit www.discussbodybuilding.com and educate the members here on why it is necessary to train a certain movement 2X per day, that is the best way to stop you from making gains, not influence gains.    

His coach does not require him to bench twice a day. He said, he has a football routine in the morning (which incorporates benching), and he has his own routine that he wants to do outside the football routine.

5'8.1"
Age = 20 
started in February 16th 2007: 58kg (127.6lbs)
current : around 79-80kg (173.8lb-176lb)

Oh, sorry... I must have misread.

Just do the benches in the morning, focus on progressing on those benches as often as possible...

You could do push ups every night, if that helps? I still wouldn't generally recommend benching 2X per day...the choice is yours, but I'd say just bench every other day if frequency is what you want...

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

smoundzou


I'm going to disagree with everyone who is saying it's not OK to bench twice a day..

Benching twice a day is perfectly fine, other than the inconvenience..  assuming you didn't get the volume in on the first workout..   Or, you want to go heavy on flat in the AM and then heavy on incline in the PM.. 

 
You'll be perfectly fine.. as long as you give your muscles a day or two to recover..before doing it again...  But I can't imagine why anyone would need to bench two times in a single day?  but I guess you must have your reasons..

I don't think it is okay whether you have the time or not.  The recovery process starts as soon as you rack the weights.  Lifting weights tears down the muscle and lifting again in an "injured" or unrepaired state is dangerous and antagonistic.  There is no reason a person should be doing that.  Lift weights, recover, then lift again.  That is the only positive way to do it.

Chalky Palms

smoundzou


I'm going to disagree with everyone who is saying it's not OK to bench twice a day..

Benching twice a day is perfectly fine, other than the inconvenience..  assuming you didn't get the volume in on the first workout..   Or, you want to go heavy on flat in the AM and then heavy on incline in the PM.. 


You'll be perfectly fine.. as long as you give your muscles a day or two to recover..before doing it again...  But I can't imagine why anyone would need to bench two times in a single day?  but I guess you must have your reasons..

I don't think it is okay whether you have the time or not.  The recovery process starts as soon as you rack the weights.  Lifting weights tears down the muscle and lifting again in an "injured" or unrepaired state is dangerous and antagonistic.  There is no reason a person should be doing that.  Lift weights, recover, then lift again.  That is the only positive way to do it.

That's a flawed philosophy....
 
Everyone is different and everyone's muscles react differently to stimulation.  Where one person can do 3 sets of 10 and adequately stimulate / tear down the muscle fibers.. that same volume might not necessarily be enough for someone else..
 
So who is to determine what an " injured or unrepaired state is?  Is it after the first set?  Second set? third set?   Two hours after a training session.. or 8 hours?   The body starts the healing process after the first rep of the first set.. or as soon as the tissue has been damaged..  that's the way our bodies work...
 
We really do underestimate what our bodies are capable of handling and adapting to. 
If the above statement were true, millions of labor intense jobs wouldn’t exist due to the fact human bodies would not be able to perform them.
 
While I agree it's moreless pointless,IMO.... I don't think anyone is going to hinder growth or endanger themself with bodily injury by doing a multiple training session on a particular muscle or group within a single day.  As I mentioned before.. this isn't the first time a topic of this nature has been brought up and it's something that has actually be proven to be a successful training method.. if balanced accordingly.
 
Edit.. Example...
If I hammer my legs with 4 sets of heavy squats.. and then between exercises wait 5 minutes before moving on to havey leg presses... at what point have I waited too long, so long that it would be considered unsafe to do the leg presses.. 5 minutes.. 30 minutes.. 2 hours.. I'm hoping who ever is reading this is understaning the point I'm trying to make.  
 

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

I don't know, I still don't think I would personally try it...

But smoundzou has been training +30 years so if he were to say it wouldn't hurt anything, I'd probably take his word for it.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

MVP


I don't know, I still don't think I would personally try it...

But smoundzou has been training +30 years so if he were to say it wouldn't hurt anything, I'd probably take his word for it.

Thanks you but again.. i'm just playing devils advocate on this..  I would never personally advise anyone to do this.. it's not necessary.. IMO a waste of time and pointless.. but I don't think there is any danger in doing it other than inconvenience..

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

Well- Here's my opinion to answer your post smoundzou...

When does the recuperation process begin? Well, IMO, would a good logic be once you consume protein post-workout? The protein begins to start the recuperation and afterwards you'd be affecting the recovery?

Just my thought.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

MVP


Well- Here's my opinion to answer your post smoundzou...

When does the recuperation process begin? Well, IMO, would a good logic be once you consume protein post-workout? The protein begins to start the recuperation and afterwards you'd be affecting the recovery?

Just my thought.

 
That would be what one might think would be the logical answer but in reality, the body is always in a constant state of repair. The body doesn't need protein to trigger it to go into repair mode.. However the protein and other nutrients do aid in repair. 
 

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

I wasn't as clear as I intended to be in my post...I just re-read it and that wasn't really what I mean..

I mean, after consuming protein, is that when you reach the point where you could say you would determine the injured or unprepared state? To the point where you wouldn't want to train the muscle again...

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

smoundzou


That would be what one might think would be the logical answer but in reality, the body is always in a constant state of repair. The body doesn't need protein to trigger it to go into repair mode.. However the protein and other nutrients do aid in repair. 
 

The body will TRY to always repair itself and it will given that it has protein and other nutrients available.  Waiting 5 minutes in between sets is not enough time to trigger recovery to begin.  The body will release certain compounds and hormones to prevent this from happening.  There is lactic acid build up and cortisol levels are increased.  These are both protective enzymes in a way.  It is safe to say that recover will begin soon after leaving the gym, once the lactic acid can covert backt o glycogen the body will begin the process. 

It is simply pointless and counter productive to work the same muscle twice a day.  Not only are you restarting the recovery process but you are risking damage to your muscle by working it out in a damaged state and increasing cortisol levels again for no reason.  It is much more productive to allow the muscle full recovery before tearing it down again.  I know you are just saying you CAN do it, you can also eat **** all day and do nothing but bicep curls, but that is not the most productive answer.

MVP


I wasn't as clear as I intended to be in my post...I just re-read it and that wasn't really what I mean..

I mean, after consuming protein, is that when you reach the point where you could say you would determine the injured or unprepared state? To the point where you wouldn't want to train the muscle again...

I certainly think there is a window where it becomes detrimental to re-train a damaged muscle.. (when I say detrimental, I simply mean you'll be delaying recover) I just don't think the window is within the 8hr or thereabout range.. I've personally never trained the same muscle group 2 times within the same day as a planned routine.. but.. I have had days where I trained early, had to leave due to other obligations and later that day, continued to train the same muscle, not because I wanted to train it 2 X's but rather didn't feel as if the muscle was adequately worked. Did it cause any adverse reaction to my training.. None that were noticeable by me.. I fully recovered enough to continue on my regular scheudule.  
But addressing the OP.. bottom line is, I'm playing Devils Advocate.  You're better off listening to the advice that has been given and only training the muscle 1 X per day.  chances are, if you have to ask this question, you're probably at a level where you're muscles are going to get plenty of stimulation from what you're doing.
If you decide to do it will it wreck your training?  I don't think so.  Is the smart optimal way to train. IMO, no.

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

I've heard of some pro bodybuilders working the same bodypart two times in a given day.  Like rowing in the morning and pull down motions later in the day.  I wouldn't suggest it, but I think you could make it work.  Now if you did chest twice a day every day you might have issues.

http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/Seos-Log-2008-m442008.aspx

Pro weightlifters, athletes train twice a day. Its used for high frequency, high volume routines. However, they are conditioned before starting such a regime and have the capacity to work at such high volumes which would be detrimental for the casual lifter to attempt. They are also coached by professionals who structure their training plans to incorporate adequate rest. 

Training twice a day, exercise-induced fatigue would be amplified by the stress of repetitive bouts. If exercise occurs before full recovery from the previous bout, recovery time would be longer than if longer rest was given in between each bout. Of course full recovery could never be reached in a training block because it is always masked by some level of fatigue. If fatigue is progressively increased because of too high frequency and/or inadequate rest, perceivable gains in performance are reduced and the trainee would be overreaching.

A short period of overreaching is not a bad thing if the trainee is using it correctly. But in this case where it might be a need to do ones own weightlifting schedule on top of a football coach's prescribed routine is not a good idea. I think performance on the pitch as compared to other team mates would not be as good as those resting more unless there was a particular need for a short block of overreaching on the bench. There are three components to effective training: frequency, intensity and duration. They all have optimal levels because rest is so important.

I would recommend first progressing linearly with the bench until you reach a point you are feeling more content with. Chat with your coach if you want more individual focus on a training pattern.

Pros BB'ers do a lot of weird ****. Their gym session are usually a few hours long... they do a **** load of volume.. can't argue with results though, eh?

I think for the most part, most have said no, don't do this.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Chalky Palms

smoundzou


That would be what one might think would be the logical answer but in reality, the body is always in a constant state of repair. The body doesn't need protein to trigger it to go into repair mode.. However the protein and other nutrients do aid in repair. 

The body will TRY to always repair itself and it will given that it has protein and other nutrients available.  Waiting 5 minutes in between sets is not enough time to trigger recovery to begin.  The body will release certain compounds and hormones to prevent this from happening.  There is lactic acid build up and cortisol levels are increased.  These are both protective enzymes in a way.  It is safe to say that recover will begin soon after leaving the gym, once the lactic acid can covert backt o glycogen the body will begin the process. 

It is simply pointless and counter productive to work the same muscle twice a day.  Not only are you restarting the recovery process but you are risking damage to your muscle by working it out in a damaged state and increasing cortisol levels again for no reason.  It is much more productive to allow the muscle full recovery before tearing it down again.  I know you are just saying you CAN do it, you can also eat **** all day and do nothing but bicep curls, but that is not the most productive answer.

 
While I tend to agree with you,  by no means the most productive way to train, we could drag this out for days  and days discussing how the body reacts when put under stress.. Although it's ok to train a muscle before it is completely recovered.. some say as soon as 36hours.. although most follow the 48hr rule.. that doesn't mean the body is fully recovered.. the recover process from weight training can take as long as 7-14 days before the muscle is actually fully repaired..
 
As simple as we make it sound.. whe we discuss stuff such as micro tears and damaging a muscle when training it.. it's actually slightly more complicated than we make it sound.. the tearing down process is just that.. a process.. and it doesn't accure within a limited time frame, it continues far after the training session is over.  If you want to discuss this any further.. I'll be glad to continue it but I don't think we should keep cluttering up the OP's post anymore than it already is.....
 
MY bad for bringing this up and more than likely confusing someone who should simply follow the advice of the majority here.. don't do it..
 
We can all agree that for the average lifter.. it's not a very smart way to train.. as said, some athletes do use this method and have reported good results..

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

I thought complete tissue remodeling can take up to a month?

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant