ZMA, Tribulus, Ribose, CLA

Hello, first I just want to thank you guys for being very helpful, I' ve been reading all through the forums for the last few hours. Unfortunate I still had a few questions I was hoping someone could answer.

I am 6' 2" /190 and am trying to bulk up. I just started Creatine and Whey protein, those were no brainers, however I was wondering what else would be a good investment.

1)ZMA- I just bought a bottle of Twin Labs Strength Fuel with ZMA. I read the article on the website but I still haven' t heard much about ZMA, is it any good at all?

2)Tribulus-I was seriously considering Tribulus after reading some good stuff about it (and no negative) however I have yet to really read anything about it on here. Is there a reason for that?

3)Ribose-Basically, is it worth it or is my (limited) money better spent on something else (remember, I' m trying to get big).

4)CLA-Is it worth the money if you are bulking?

5)Out of these 4 which are the best bets?

I guess I was just basically wondering if there is a reason these things aren' t " mainstream" here in the forums... is it because they dont work or is it because of some other reason.

Also, any other supp' s I might have missed that are good for bulking, input would be appreciated.

Thanks a ton,
Bryan

If you add methoxy, NO2, and myostatin inhibitors, you somehow would have managed to pick all the overpriced and overhyped products out there.

Save your money.

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What would you recommend then, TwinPeak? After Whey and Creatine and a good diet... then what? Andro or ALA perhaps?

Thanks for your insight,
Bryan

NO2

" Don' t hate the player.. hate the game" -Wil Smith Bad Boys II

What my bud is trying to say is that..

1) ZMA worthless
2) Tribulus boosts testosterone but I' m not so sure of that. Kinda hype and being built up like NO2 which other then pumps you up.. (and makes me feel good) doesn' t live up to the label claims.
3) Ribose never heard of it. Must not be the most popular supplement.
4) CLA I liked it. I wrote about it. Read my CLA Review


Honestly your best bet in my opinion is

1) Protein
2) Creatine (if you are a responder)
3) Food

I went from 178-190lbs since April. What was my magic formula? Getting my nutrition on track. Our moderators in the Online Training Journal are excellent. You' d do well to look at the examples there and post your own so that you can get your nutrition in line. FitDay is an excellent resource for that and FREE. Follow the examples in that forum (Eagle101st' s journal is a prime one).

Marc C. David - NGA CPT
Author of NoBull Bodybuilding
www.nobullbodybuilding.com

I meant to say trib boosts test? God shoot me if thats what I meant. Shoot me now.

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ORIGINAL: TXAggie

What would you recommend then, TwinPeak? After Whey and Creatine and a good diet... then what? Andro or ALA perhaps?

Thanks for your insight,
Bryan

Ala ain' t bad. EFAs are, well, " essential" -- fish oil is best. BCAAs are decent, though expensive. Whey and dextrose after your workout, casien before bed, and a good diet and routine.

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Ok so I can get my ALA/EFA' s from a fish oil pill, correct? I' m thinking that will be my next supplement of choice (Fish oil).

As far as dextrose, I now currently take a cup of grape juice with my creatine immediately after my WO and then 20 mins later eat a banana and down whey protein mixed with water. My question is, will the banana and cup of juice do the job of the dextrose? I know we are dealing with 2 different types of sugars ( I believe these are fructose) but will it really make a noticable difference? (Basically, I don' t want to shell out hte money for dextrose )

Thank again for your time,
Bryan

Shell out the money for dextrose? Its like a buck a POUND. Cheaper than your grape juice.

Fructose, preferentially replenishes liver glycogen.

Glucose preferentially replenishes muscle glycogen.

Dextrose IS glucose.

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ribose is nothing more than damn expensive sugar. i've used it and didn't notice any increases changes in energy. the studies done with ribose didn't show that good of results. plus like most of supplement studies they were taking a tons of it. i don't reccomend it, it's just a waste of money.

Whey and dextrose after your workout, casien before bed, and a good diet and routine.

When you recommend casein protein before bed, are you just doing so because everything about the theory sounds right, or have you actually compared your own results with all 3 possibilities:

* No protein before bed
* Whey protein before bed
* Casein protein before bed

?

I appreciate all postings that can help us make the best purchase decisions.

Casein breaks down much slower then whey. That has been proven numerous times. The BV (biological value) of whey is such that it gets absorbed immediately.. Casein takes more time to break down.

So taking Casein blends before bed, just means you are nitrogen positive for longer while you sleep for 8 hours and not eat. Because during the day, you are eating every 2-3 hours. So in essence, this is a mini-fast.

No protein would be a mistake. As that would mean your last meal contained all you were going to be. Let's say 6pm..

If you worked out that day, you want your body to be in an anabolic state at all times.. feeding it is the only way to do that.

Casein breaks down slower. Whey doesn't. But faced with a choice, Whey is a fine alternative to take at night as it will stay in your system for quite some time..

No protein before bed? Sure. I did that when I worked out and didn't supplement at all. Nor did I eat all that great. My college years are proven fact for that. And I didn't gain what I'm gaining now. And I didn't used to do a shake at night.. until I started eating a lot more and gaining some good bulk. After dinner.. come 10pm.. I was hungry again.. that's my body saying.. dude.. eat.. well I wasn't about to make another meal. So a shake with casein is a good alternative. Or I could ignore my body's call to grow and just go to bed.

Theory sounds right.. and it was proven with my own experiences. I've gone to bed several times recently without taking my night-time shake and I"m always more hungry and tired in the morning.. simply because it's a longer period without any food.

Marc C. David - NGA CPT
Author of NoBull Bodybuilding
www.nobullbodybuilding.com

Yes, that's the theory, but for every supplement that most of us agree is worthless, there is a logical explanation of why it should work.

However, the real world of the human body turns out to be very complicated, and there may be factors that we don't anticipate that cause the supplement to not actually be helpful in the real world.

The casein protein at bedtime theory makes sense, but perhaps it doesn't actually make a difference.

Here's one possibility:

I've read that growth hormone is produced in the first half of the sleep period, and that the second half of the sleep period is REM sleep that is not involved in the growth process. If that is true, then it is only important for protein to be present in the blood stream for the first half of the sleep period.

Or maybe some yet unknown process makes it unimportant how much amino acids are present at night - perhaps it turns out that only the levels of 7-11-dirtysoxenase matters.

Anyway, that is why I was interested in any personal experiences - and yours are helpful, but the more "data points" the better.

PS This reminds me of a "tip". It turns out that GH is produced during the sleep period according to "circadian rhythms", ie it is actually related to the time of day. If you go to sleep at 2am or later, your GH production that night is next to nil. So, going to sleep earlier can help your GH production. This is according to NIH studies, which didn't get much publicity because sleep is not patentable.

The more I think about the casein thing, the less sense it makes. On another board, someone commented that digestion is slower at night and so whey probably lasts most of the night anyway.

But, beyond that, I've always read that digestion disturbs sleep and vice-versa.

Here is a quote from a "health" web site. (Of course, the statements may not be correct, but that applies to anything you read on the internet.)

Numerous studies have linked late-night eating with increased cancer rates, as well as higher serum cholesterol levels and LDL, and a higher LDL:HDL ratio than daytime eaters. It has been suggested that night time food intake may be associated with metabolic disturbances in lipid (fat) metabolism, and may lead to ischemic heart disease.

Night time eating may also reset the body clock to establish an “owl,” or late, pattern of sleeping rather than a “lark,” or early pattern of bedtime and sleeping. Researchers have found that going to be early is associated with numerous health benefits.

Late-night eating can also result in gastroesophageal reflux, a condition where gastric acid back-flows into the throat. This occurs when a person lies down or reclines after a meal. Such reflux can cause sore throat, wheezing, coughing and hoarseness.

Clearly, going to bed with a stomach full of food is a surefire way to “fire up” your digestive organs.

Except whey and casein are already in your bloodstream and the notion merely is referring to the length of time that the proteins will stay in the system.

Whey type proteins are absorbed quickly. Casein type proteins just break down slower in the body; thus, giving you a sort of time released protein effect.

There's not as much to breakdown. You do have to digest.. but your body doesn't work as hard as the protein is mostly broken down.

So I wouldn't really even consider it eating late at night..

Clearly, going to bed with a stomach full of food is a surefire way to “fire up” your digestive organs

There's not as much to digest in that sense so you really aren't firing up anything nor is a shake equivalent to a stomach full of food (like having a full dinner at 10pm)

Marc C. David - NGA CPT
Author of NoBull Bodybuilding
www.nobullbodybuilding.com