Xceed vs Storm
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Xceed vs Storm - 6/29/2006 12:39:57 AM
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antish
Posts: 17
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Which one do you recommend?
Xceed -> 45 servings
$35
CEE
limited ingredients
Storm-> 80 servings
$27
4 types of creatine
more ing
does storm work on creatine non-responders?
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RE: Xceed vs Storm - 6/29/2006 2:23:37 AM
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VaughnTrue
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if it does...sign me up. i HATE getting nothing from creatine
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(in reply to antish)
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RE: Xceed vs Storm - 6/29/2006 2:33:47 AM
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40 yard dash 2
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quote:
ORIGINAL: antish
Which one do you recommend?
Xceed -> 45 servings
$35
CEE
limited ingredients
Storm-> 80 servings
$27
4 types of creatine
more ing
does storm work on creatine non-responders?
Anyone who knows how to read an ingredient label knows that Storm's iNOXsulin-7 is a proprietary blend, so although more ingredients, as you like to point out, there are much fewer of them. Also, Xceed contains creatine ethyl ester, whereas Storm is a combination of old creatine monohydrate and di and tri creatine malate. Also, Storm is not an adequately dosed Nitrous Oxide product like Xceed is. Also, I personally do not utilize products which contain the ingredient Glycocyamine, that of which is found in Storm. Just do some research on its harmful effects.
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(in reply to antish)
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RE: Xceed vs Storm - 6/29/2006 2:59:08 AM
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antish
Posts: 17
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ok bro, you convinced me.peeps say that xceed contains more than 45 servings.
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RE: Xceed vs Storm - 6/29/2006 4:16:41 AM
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Jayman30187
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Glycocyamine should be taken along with creatine. Supplementation can ensure a more powerful effect from the use of creatine. Glycocyamine also appears to be very effective for those who see no benefits from creatine. In other words, it turns creatine "non-responders" into "responders." Scientists think this nutrient might also boost your own creatine production.
We know that Storm has 5 grams of creatine in it for sure.
And the rest
iNOXsulin-7: 3750mg
L-Taurine
Betaine Anhydrous
Citrulline Malate
Arginine AKG
Glycocyamine
L-ALA
4-Hydroxyisoleucine (20%)
We might not know for sure how much is in each of these, but we do know you do get some of them and guessing Universal probably put together the right amounts to make it effective. Xceed has none of these so.
< Message edited by Jayman30187 -- 6/29/2006 5:17:06 AM >
(in reply to 40 yard dash 2)
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RE: Xceed vs Storm - 6/29/2006 10:16:25 AM
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40 yard dash 2
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It is pretty easy to see that you don't know much about supplements. Also, you need 3-6 grams each of Citrulline Malate and AKG in order for it to be effective. No way is that in one scoop of Storm.
Glycocyamine – Is it a "Creatine-Enhancer?"
by Paul Cribb, B.H.Sci HMS
AST Director of Research
You many have read about a new compound called glycocyamine in the muscle magazines. Some supplement marketers are selling this product as a creatine enhancer.
What is Glycocyamine?
Glycocyamine is the intermediate step of creatine synthesis in the liver. It is often called guanidinoacetate. The first step in creatine synthesis occurs with the transfer of the amidino group of arginine to glycine to yield ornithine and guanidinoacetate via L-arginine:glycine amidinotransferase.[1]
Because of this, glycocyamine (guanidinoacetate) is often used in medical research as a marker for alterations in creatine metabolism and an indicator of conditions such as arginine-glycine amidinotransferase (AGAT) and guanidinoacetate methyltransferase (GAMT) deficiencies.[2,3]
A reduction of guanidinoacetic acid in body fluids is desired for GAMT deficiency (an inborn error of creatine biosynthesis). These diseases are characterized by creatine depletion and accumulation of guanidinoacetate in the brain.[4]
Glycocyamine as a Supplement.
There are no direct studies on glycocyamine as a performance enhancing supplement or a creatine enhancer. Even more important to athletes, there is no theoretical research that even remotely suggests glycocyamine might enhance muscle growth or the effectiveness of creatine supplementation.
One study has examined the effects of supplementing with glycocyamine and creatine on physiological plasma homocysteine levels in rats.[5] It’s from this research that marketers of glycocyamine supplements seem to be drawing their “science-based” sales pitch on glycocyamine.
A number of studies have confirmed a relationship between an increased plasma concentration of homocysteine and the development of cardiovascular disease. Even a small increase in circulating homocysteine increases coronary artery disease risk by 60% for men and 80% for women.[6] Supplementation with creatine is suspected to decrease homocysteine levels.[7]
Because the methylation of guanidinoacetate to creatine via consumes more S-adenosylmethionine than all other methylation reactions combined, the researchers behind the rat study hypothesized that guanidinoacetate and creatine supplementation may have opposite effects on homocysteine levels. Results showed they did.[5] Creatine supplementation was shown to decrease liver homocysteine levels, thus substantiating the possibility of creatine as a supplement that may help people avoid cardiovascular disease. However, guanidinoacetate supplementation was shown to increase homocysteine levels. This is not a good thing if you want to reduce your risk of cardiovascular disease.[6]
Would glycocyamine be effective for bodybuilders?
To provide a theoretical answer this question, we must look at glycocyamine’s role in metabolism and the role of creatine supplementation. Firstly, remember that glycocyamine is an intermediate involved in creatine synthesis within the liver. Without the presence of supplementation the body only synthesizes a small amount of creatine (less than 2-grams) per day. However, from the research it is clear that creatine supplementation reduces the body’s need to synthesize creatine, therefore the role of glycocyamine would be virtually eliminated.[7]
Secondly, compare this to regular doses that bodybuilders supplement (5-20-grams per day). Glycocyamine has no biochemical role what so ever in creatine supplementation and accumulation in muscle. Therefore you can start to understand why glycocyamine would be fairly useless supplement for bodybuilders.
Finally, as muscle cells cannot manufacture creatine, any attempt to increase muscle glycocyamine content via supplementation in an effort to help increase creatine stores would obviously be useless. Also, creatine relies on a highly selective cell transporter, I can’t see how a non-insulin-stimulating compound like glycocyamine could enhance creatine uptake in muscle.
The bottom line . . .
Guanidinoacetate/glycocyamine’s role in the small amount of creatine synthesized by the body has nothing to do with creatine supplementation. Promoting glycocyamine as a supplement that enhances the effects of creatine supplementation is completely without practical or theoretical biological evidence.
While at present there is zero research on guanidinoacetate/glycocyamine’s effect on muscle growth or creatine supplementation, from a theoretical perspective, as I have shown you, I can’t see how glycocyamine supplementation would enhance the effectiveness of creatine supplementation.
It’s becoming commonplace in the supplement industry for marketers to select a little known obscure metabolite from biochemistry (it doesn't matter if the compound is completely irrelevant to bodybuilding), and hype it as a new “magic muscle building catalyst”. This seems to occur because supplement marketers are all too aware that bodybuilders are demanding science-based products.
The problem with this unscrupulous marketing approach is that it’s very difficult for anyone without a biochemistry major to decipher the “science” behind these bogus products (even then, most acedemics still can’t see through the smoke screen). What you can do as a consumer is ask to be provided with the full reports on the research cited. Ask for the clear facts and don’t be intimidated or impressed by scientific marketing spin.
From a research and theoretically-based perspective, the suggestion that glycocyamine is a creatine-enhancing supplement is at present, completely unfounded.
References:
1. Allain, P, LeBouil A, Cordillet E, LeQuay L, Bagheri H, and Montastruc JL. Sulfate and cysteine levels in the plasma of patients with Parkinson's Disease. Neurotoxicol 16: 527–530, 1995.
2. Carducci C, Birarelli M, Leuzzi V, Carducci C, Battini R, Cioni G, Antonozzi I Clin Chem 2002 Oct;48(10):1772-8. Guanidinoacetate and creatine plus creatinine assessment in physiologic fluids: an effective diagnostic tool for the biochemical diagnosis of arginine:glycine amidinotransferase and guanidinoacetate methyltransferase deficiencies. Clin Chem 2002 Oct; 48(10):1772–8.
3. Al Banchaabouchi M, Marescau B, Van Marck E, D'hooge R, De Deyn PP. Long-term effect of partial nephrectomy on biological parameters, kidney histology, and guanidino compound levels in mice. Metabolism 2001 Dec; 50(12):1418-25.
4. Schulze A, Ebinger F, Rating D, Mayatepek E. Improving treatment of guanidinoacetate methyltransferase deficiency: reduction of guanidinoacetic acid in body fluids by arginine restriction and ornithine supplementation. Mol Genet Metab 2001 Dec;74(4):413-9.
5. Lori M. Stead, Keegan P. Au, René L. Jacobs, Margaret E. Brosnan, and John T. Brosnan. Methylation demand and homocysteine metabolism: effects of dietary provision of creatine and guanidinoacetate. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 281: E1095–E1100, 2001
6. Refsum, H, Ueland PM, Nygård O, and Vollset SE. Homocysteine and cardiovascular disease. Annu Rev Med 49: 31-62, 1998.
7. M. F. McCarty. Supplemental creatine may decrease serum homocysteine and abolish the homocysteine `gender gap' by suppressing endogenous creatine synthesis. Med Hypotheses. Jan; 56(1): 5-7,2001.
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(in reply to Jayman30187)
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RE: Xceed vs Storm - 6/29/2006 10:28:42 AM
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Lunchbox
Posts: 283
Joined: 11/29/2005
From: Minnesota
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quote:
L-ALA
Isn't R-ALA the one that's most effective?
(in reply to 40 yard dash 2)
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RE: Xceed vs Storm - 6/29/2006 10:32:54 AM
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Jayman30187
Posts: 1078
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From: Fort Wayne, Indiana
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Just remember Universal been around alot longer than Designer supplements And have alot more money for research. If you don't think Universal know a thing or two about supplements then you don't know much about them either. You been around as long as Universal you are going to know some stuff. Unlike Muscletech and BSN, Universal don't try to shove their products down your throat the products work and they are priced right with generous servings. The Storm product is 80 servings 1 scoop a day and I can get it for around $23, how could one go wrong with that deal? BSN, Designer, ETC ETC isn't touching that deal, and those products are probably not as effective either. Universal are responsible for Animal Pak, that has been around for many of years and trusted and used by many bodybuilders because it's quality, all of the Universal products I have used been high quailty with no B/S.
(in reply to 40 yard dash 2)
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RE: Xceed vs Storm - 6/29/2006 4:18:47 PM
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phersan
Posts: 1590
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From: PA
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quote:
The Storm product is 80 servings 1 scoop a day and I can get it for around $23, how could one go wrong with that deal?
Umm, for that reason exactly, maybe? Would you buy poop just cause it's dirt cheap, you get 1,000 servings, and it has a Universal logo on the container? How many other supplements do you see that do the same thing offered at $23 for 80 servings? None... wonder why? Maybe quality comes into play. Wouldnt you think?
That would be like me going to the super market and getting RC Cola instead of Coke and claiming it's better just cause it's cheaper and I get more. RC Cola might resemble Coke, but come on, it ain't the same.
I'm not defending DS here either, I've never tried their supplements. And I'm not bashing Universal as well, never tried their supplements. I'm just saying... you're obviously biased towards Universal, and your logic is completely flawed... I remember you posting your future stack that included about 7-10 Universal products.
- just because something has been around longer, doesn't make it better
- just because something is cheaper, doesn't make it better
- just because you get more of something, doesnt make it better
- just because you make ONE decent product (Animal Pak), doesn't justify that all your products are good
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(in reply to Jayman30187)
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RE: Xceed vs Storm - 6/29/2006 7:47:28 PM
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ebbearsfb1
Posts: 1071
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i agree with he said 100 percent.
jay u gotta get off universal jock unless u work for them of course.
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RE: Xceed vs Storm - 6/30/2006 6:01:52 AM
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Jayman30187
Posts: 1078
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I get those Universal products at a discount price regular they cost more. Massnutrition.com has good prices and they don't carry Designer supplements. Getting more of something is better when the product inside is better already. As far as Universals quality goes, how many other companies have 100% guarantee?? If you don't like the product for whatever reason you get your money back. Look on the side of any Universal product " 100% guarantee if not completely satisfied, return remainder of product and receipt to place of purchase within 30 days for an immediate refund or exchange. Quality is the biggest reason I buy Universal products 2nd would be price and servings. How much does it cost BSN, Designer? Etc Etc to make these products? No Xplode probably cost BSN $2 to make and you pay over $30 for the stuff. Universal been around long enough and make many many products they can afford to not bend you over and still make killer profits. As far as how good Universal is, the whole entire ANIMAL line is top notch. I know Universal don't have the fancy packaging and claim the Sun the Moon and the stars on the label, that doesn't necessarily mean it's bad either. Just because you are being overcharged by a piss ant company that's been around for what? maybe a year doesn't mean the products are superior either. I go by the label to a certain degree, and see what is inside the container if it looks good I will try it.
(in reply to ebbearsfb1)
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RE: Xceed vs Storm - 6/30/2006 6:39:16 AM
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MrAllStarChris
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Actually Massnutrition does carry Designer Suppliments, and there you go again knocking BSN, I'm starting to think BSN killed your dad or something, it's like your single handedly trying to run them into the ground. Good luck buddy, lol.
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(in reply to Jayman30187)
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RE: Xceed vs Storm - 6/30/2006 6:49:05 AM
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Jayman30187
Posts: 1078
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I am not running them into the ground. It's true it probably cost BSN like $2 to make No Xplode. I bet the container to put it in cost them more than the damn No Xplode. 2-3 scoops per serving and 40 servings per container and the container isn't even filled to the top, yeah someone needs to run them to the ground.
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RE: Xceed vs Storm - 6/30/2006 1:01:10 PM
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GyM RaT
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storm shouldnt be totally compared to xceed. since xceed is a creatine/NO combo, it is difficult to compare to storm, which is pre and post workout creatine. how bout shock therapy? shock therapy also has 40 servings, and is pretty cheap right now even check gnc.com, really cheap. i'm going to get get it tomorrow for 23.99, with storm which is gonna be 17.99 with the gold card.
$41.98 for 40 days of the Shock/Storm stack.
< Message edited by GyM RaT -- 6/30/2006 1:05:38 PM >
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(in reply to Jayman30187)
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RE: Xceed vs Storm - 6/30/2006 1:11:24 PM
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GyM RaT
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the shock therapy proprietary blend is 20g for 7 ingredients
averaging about 2-3 grams per ingredient. the top of the list of the blend are arginine AKG and citrulline malate, which usually means there is a higher quantity of those ingredients.
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(in reply to GyM RaT)
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RE: Xceed vs Storm - 6/30/2006 2:04:27 PM
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ebbearsfb1
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unless u know for a fact it only cost them dirt cheap to make no explode don't make up sh*t
how do u know universal products are made for a very cheap price?
u don't. not knockin universal just knockin jay man for stupidy and bias that u can't even talk to him
(in reply to GyM RaT)
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RE: Xceed vs Storm - 6/30/2006 2:15:55 PM
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ebbearsfb1
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however its almost like
shock therapy and storm vs xceed
41 dollars vs 35 dollars
but for that price when im done with xceed
im thinking about trying shock therapy and storm cause for that many servings it could be worth it.
but the first like 20 servings of storm are loading i heard.
so who has tried both xceed and the stack of shock and storm
(in reply to ebbearsfb1)
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RE: Xceed vs Storm - 6/30/2006 3:24:18 PM
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GyM RaT
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u heard that, but the directions 4 storm are 30 min pre and within 30 min post.
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(in reply to ebbearsfb1)
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RE: Xceed vs Storm - 6/30/2006 4:23:49 PM
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ebbearsfb1
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yes i did. when i spoke to guys at both gnc and vitamin shoppe
plus it is a mono so they usually do have to be loaded.
i mean still u get 60 servings out of it.
question
if im taking xceed and xtend now
how long do i have to wait before taking shock and storm
also does xtend need to be cycled at all?
< Message edited by ebbearsfb1 -- 6/30/2006 4:26:13 PM >
(in reply to GyM RaT)
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