Wow! Just when you think you've been training your abs...

Okay, I suppose I should admit right up front that I'd be exaggerating if I said I have a handle on abdominal training.  Truth is, all I ever do are basic crunches -and I can't even remember the last time I threw some twists into them.

In any case, I got a nasty little reminder this weekend of just how ineffective my ab workouts have been for hitting the entire core, courtesy of another little bodyweight exercise everyone loves to poo-poo: the lowly push-up.

There I was, stuck on Long Beach Island with only a pair of DBs and no bench.  I got in my customary shoulder presses and bench pullovers (by laying across a chair), but found myself at a loss for a good bench press substitute.  Grudgingly, I settled for push-ups.  I ended up doing five sets to failure, which took a LOT more than the customary mass building recommendation of 6 to 8 reps, obviously.  I used the DB's as a pair of "perfect push-up" handles, and let me tell you, it worked like a charm.  I got a sicker pump out of five lousy sets of push-ups than I EVER have trying to max out my bench press in every normal chest workout -and it lasted MUCH longer.

What blows my mind is how utterly devastated and sore my abdominals and obliques are, two days later!

Lesson learned.  Push-ups and planks rock the llama's ass!

My home away from DBB

Agreed about the planks.  They put the hurtin' on!  I'll have to admit I've sort of let the abs fall by the wayside.  Abs, shmabs!  Of course they get blasted pretty good in Pilates.  Just seems like they get attention with most other compound work where the core tenses up.  I just think I've got better use for my time than ab training.  I love blasting them but  something's gotta give.  And I'm not sure a decent 6 pack involves considerable resistance work.  We all know it's more about getting the BF down.

It's always a good day when there's a fresh Veg thread!  Glad you survived Hurricane Bill!  ;)

In my MMA class, pushups are one of the things they make us do all the time.  If you f*** up on something, they make us drop down and do pushups.....

As part of our warmup, we do these things called "buddy pushups".  Basically the instructor does 1 pushup....while we wait in the "up position" of a pushup.....then we do 1 pushup....then he does 2 pushups while we wait in the "up position" again.....then we do 2....then he does 3.....then we do 3....all the way up to 10, and then down to 1 again.

It's a total of 110 pushups after the entire set of "buddy pushups".  The HARDEST part of the whole thing is WAITING in the up postion for the instructor to finish his pushups.  Especially when we get to around 7+ pushups.  My abs are always the part that give out first, NOT my arms or chest.....

So ya, I totally agree with you on this one.

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117358

I like that pyramiding idea.  Sounds wicked brutal!

My home away from DBB

Sounds a lot like my pullup method. I do 6, then 5, then 4, then 3, then 2, then 1 eccentric. Then again, I try to increase the first set each week, like this week I started with 7. 1 set is pullup, 1 set is chinup, then the last few are behind the neck.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Ya, it's definately a killer, except this goes

1...2...3...4...5...6 all the way to 10, and then back down to 1.  I'm usually whopped before I even get to 10, because it's the resting in the up position as I'm waiting for the instructor to do his, that really kills me.

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117358

That's the way those bridge pullups go. It's a good way to increase volume of working sets. Except there are "second" principles. It goes like this:

1 rep...10 seconds...2 reps...20 seconds...3 reps...30 seconds...etc. all the way up to anywhere from 5-10 reps depended upon athletic ability and then back down again. I was doing them with 6's a while back and it was adding up to 42 pullups per session 3X per week.

I believe that's the principle cause for my quick pullup increase, after that I was able to do 3 X 10 X BW on overhead pulls. Techniques like that is the best way to increase bodyweight movements. Which makes me want to try them for dips.

Do you guys use the same technique for sit ups?

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

I love planks.

I do 5 sets of 10 reps of weighted crunches.  Right now I'm doing the weighted crunches holding a 50 lb. dumbbell right under my chin.  I usually up the weight by 5 lbs. every month.  After the weighted crunches comes the real killer: the planks.  I'm up to 3 and a half minutes in plank position.  Then I do side planks.  My side planks are weak.

"But a true champion, face to face with his darkest hour, will do whatever it takes to rise above. A man fights, and fights, and then fights some more. Because surrender is death, and death is for pussies."

LoL this may sound humerus but the principle cause for failure during my pullups is the fact my core gives out due to weak stabilizers. I've started doing overhead presses standing, pullups instead of pulldowns, dips instead of decline presses, etc.

Hanging leg raises, planks and bodyweight movements in general will make your core explode. I believe the best core movements ever is vertical pulls though, the overhead press is probably #1 due to the length from the wrists down to the tibia. Every muscle groups is required to contract isometrically to stabilize it's nearest joint.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Craziness!  I can't believe I didn't notice it before, but this is the only chest exercise that I know of (besides maybe cable crossovers) that has such a profound impact on core.  When I'm bench pressing, I get NOTHING in my abs.  Nada.

And that bit about hanging leg raises is spot on.  Every time I'm doing chin-ups, it feels like I pull a groin muscle.

{Pause to allow snickering to subside}

I guess that's because I incorporate a little leg raise action at the end of a chin-up set to affect a little "cheat", and by then, I'm usually pretty wiped out.

My home away from DBB

You want a real hard and good all round chest workout ... I think its called the 'Around the world' exercises ... Don't really need heavy dumbbells, but they hit your chest HARD .. especially after doing something like bench.

As for abs .. i do weighted crunches ... but never felt my abs hurt after doing push ups ...

I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. - Frank Sinatra

Bull,
   I think if you spent a significant amount of time in the plank position with the pushups, your abs would be aflame.  Try doing a set of just 10 pushups, but hold a 30 second rest pause after each rep. 

JMBS


Bull,
   I think if you spent a significant amount of time in the plank position with the pushups, your abs would be aflame.  Try doing a set of just 10 pushups, but hold a 30 second rest pause after each rep. 

Exactly! This is where the abs really come into play from doing pushups. 

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117358

Well, Bull may be onto something there tho... The fact is, I think I got such a wicked abdominal asskicking out of those pushups because my ab training had been so sloppy up to that point.  I'm sure if you regularly do a truckload of oblique work and weighted crunches, you'll be preconditioned to tolerate more plank action than you can find in a few sets of pushups.

That's where you have to go out of your way to force it -like J and Bri suggest, deliberately exaggerating the "rest" position.

My home away from DBB

we did something similar to this but added kettlebells into the routine.
 
one person would swing the kettlebell 10 times one handed and while that person was swinging the other person was in the pushup position holding it waiting for the other person to complete his set.
 
after that they switch off and go up in pushups like you explained.  it is fun times.

I train my abs like a girl.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

I agree with that ^.

Planks (bridges) are the shiznae. So are oblique planks.

Abdominals: Hanging leg raises, planks, crunches.
Obliques: Side planks, oblique (side) deadlifts.

Perfect combination.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

I use kettlebells a ton when i work out (just my preference)

one arm Kettlebell swings also hit the obliques.


also a side note (off topic)

i like how MVP has himself sigged in his profile :p.

Forget planks, meet the L sit:



Really, I was doing 45 pounds planks for 30+ seconds and can only hold an L for 5-7 seconds. Front levers are another exercise that rock the core.

"No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical
training...what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the
beauty and strength of which his body is capable."

MVP


I agree with that ^.

Planks (bridges) are the shiznae. So are oblique planks.

Abdominals: Hanging leg raises, planks, crunches.
Obliques: Side planks, oblique (side) deadlifts.

Perfect combination.

hanging leg raises hit the hip flexors more then anything. barbell ab rollouts are my fav core exercise. fuxkin brutal

Current: 19, 5'11", 190@7%

bench:305 squat:370(atg) deadlift:475
Goals: 4plate squat, 5plate dead

"obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated"

I've been through this before on DBB, but whenever I do bodyweight pullups, or hanging leg raises, the next day and a day or two after that, my tailbone is in a world of hurt.  It helps to bend over and touch my toes.  But when I extend my back, ouch!  What is up with that?  Weak hip flexors?  How to train them w/o going through that pain?

securitor


Forget planks, meet the L sit:



Really, I was doing 45 pounds planks for 30+ seconds and can only hold an L for 5-7 seconds. Front levers are another exercise that rock the core.

really? try L-pullups.

Try muscle ups.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Daniel265

barbell ab rollouts are my fav core exercise. fuxkin brutal

Is there any advantage to using a barbell instead of an ab wheel?

I remember during my military training:

"one, two, three, one
one, two, three, two
one, two, three, three...
one, two, three, thirty two"

NCO: "DID YOUR KNEE TOUCH THE GROUND? EVERBODY. BACK TO ZERO"

uuuughhh But I can say that my core got REAAAALY strong after all those pushups. I was building running milage very quickly and we barely did any core-centric work (well, except for the occasional 3-5 minute plank punishment )

Age: 18
Supplements: Whey Protein
Sport: Long Distance Running (5-10k++)
Does Yoga!

snatchula

Daniel265

barbell ab rollouts are my fav core exercise. fuxkin brutal

Is there any advantage to using a barbell instead of an ab wheel?

I should think a barbell requires less balance control and would therefore be slightly easier.

My home away from DBB

CJ,
    Sounds brutal but effective!  Dude, you do yoga!   I love yoga!  Good workin' out!  :)

JMBS


CJ,
    Sounds brutal but effective!  Dude, you do yoga!   I love yoga!  Good workin' out!  :)

Hey man, yeah it IS brutal. And it's especially hard when you've got officers pacing in front of you, kicking up dust and stuff, yelling at you and punishing every little thing you do wrong. But it really helps build mental toughness Came out of that stuff with a better work ethic overall, for all aspects of life
 
Hey guys, what do you think of this?
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=486
 
it's an ab workout idea that supposedly works the whole core

Age: 18
Supplements: Whey Protein
Sport: Long Distance Running (5-10k++)
Does Yoga!

veggeep

snatchula

Daniel265

barbell ab rollouts are my fav core exercise. fuxkin brutal

Is there any advantage to using a barbell instead of an ab wheel?

I should think a barbell requires less balance control and would therefore be slightly easier.

i dont have access to an ab wheel so i use a barbell. both should be very effective

Current: 19, 5'11", 190@7%

bench:305 squat:370(atg) deadlift:475
Goals: 4plate squat, 5plate dead

"obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated"

Excellent post. I've been looking to change up my routine in the gym because I feel like I hit a wall with my training. I've only been hitting the gym hard for a couple of months and I've heard how important it is to switch up your routine periodically and "shock" your muscles into growing. I'm going to follow some of this advice. Is there a place where I can read more of your posts?

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