Why is it " nearly impossible" to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time?

I' ve seen this mentioned quite a lot on these forums. It' s also in the sticky thread of this forum.

What people say is that it' s impossible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time unless you' re a beginner.

So now i' m wondering why this is?
Some argue that it' s got to do with caloric intake - that you can' t gain muscle mass if you' re in caloric deficit, and that you can' t lose fat if you' re taking in more than you use. Again, unless you' re a beginner.

1) So what makes a beginner' s body different to that of a seasoned lifter (in terms of ability/inability to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time)?

2) Where do you draw the line between a beginner and a " non-beginner" ? Is it the amount of time they' ve been training? Is it the current status of his body?

3) Or is it just genetic...and some are able to gain muscle while losing fat, and others are not?

Thanks

to answer your question.. these are my theories from articles i read and also personal opinions

when you first start working out.. (beginners).. your body is so surprised by the stress given on the muscles that your body puts on muscle without alot of extra calories..
as time goes by your body gets used to stress.. no matter how much your routine you can only tax your muscles so much a day.. so you need to help promote the gain of muscle by eating a high calorie and healthy diet..
it is possible to gain muscle without gaining fat.. which requires the perfect diet.. but this is almost impossible.. so to gain muscle (the bulking phase) people would rather eat over the required calories to promote muscle growth then to have less..
when losing the fat (cutting phase) your actually in a catabolic state most of the time.. which means your body is in need of calories and is gonna start eating away on your body to achieve the required energy.. so there is not enough calories to promote muscle growth..

It is however possible to gain muscle and get a lower bf% at the same time.. now this requires the perfect diet or pretty damn close.. this is when you have just enough calories to build muscles without gaining the fat.. so your not actually losing any fat .. just gaining FFM (fat free mass) which will just change the fat%.. this happens often with atheletes.. boxers.. sprinters..

but for the sake of not going to count and measure every single damn calorie that we need.. we do the 2 phases.. bulking and cutting.. this is much easier then doing the gaining muscle without gaining the fat..

also i would like to add one more thing.. it is possible to gain muscle and lose fat.. and i can only see this happening in one point of the day.. when you workout.. working out will put you in a catabolic mode and you ll sweat off 500 calories blahblah.. and you go home eat and get anabolic for the rest of the time with the added feature of eating just enough calories to gain muscle.. i say it is possible.. but highly unlikely..

and also lastly.. i would have to say genes have very little to do with this subject.. just your diet is a major importance.. and also how you workout (not overworking.. not working out for too long..)

Good points. I will add one other thing:

If you are obese, you have a lot of stored energy as fat. Thus, it would be more possible to gain muscle and lose some extra fat on a maintenance or slightly subm. energy intake, as that stored energy will be released. Mind you, the lower your bf% is the less this will be possible/noticeable, as your body nears its normal bf setpoint.

Calories don`t build muscle ,protein does. If you keep your protein intake high enough you can gain muscle size while on a restricted calorie diet.I`ve done it myself,you should eat 1-1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight,and alternate high and low carb days ie. 3 days low carbs and 2 days higher carbs.If you don`t appear to be gaining any size bump up your proteihn a little. Eat 6 to 8 times a day,and 30-45 min. of cardio,along with your training. Don`t overtrain,get a lot of rest,and watch the mirror as your guide to progress.Remember you don`t necasarilly have to gaun weight to add muscle.you can be losing fat and building muscle at the same time,resulting in no bodyweight increase.

I' m a fat little bastard, and I am gonna be my own test.

I am doing very little cardio, plans to increase (bike ride, no running).

Currently I walk about a mile a week (lame I know). I work out on M/T rest W then again TH/F.

I am lifting heavy, imho, so I want to see just how my body will change with lifting alone, and very limited cardio.

I' m taking CLA and some other supps, and when I get a chance I' ll post my fat ass picks up to this site and we can see just what a fat boy can do.

In 95 I was about 165, now I' m 209. In 95 I was pressing about 175 maybe less, I can' t remember. I was scared to put more than 135 on the bar. Now I am doing 3 sets or 220 10 reps each set. I just pushed 240 5x once a few weeks ago because I can' t add, so I put on too much weight. I thought it was 220, and when I only got 5 reps I was like " ****! I am a lame ass fat boy" . I counted again, and saw the error.

I wear waist 40 pants, but I think my waist is more like 42 44. I used to wear 36, back in the day. :o) But back in the day I was running 3 miles 3x a day in 30 min or less...(Marine Reserves). I got out of the reserves in 95, good thing too because my reserve unit in San Bruno, CA is over in IRAQ right now (we got activated for the first desert shield in 90/91).

So like I said, I am making some changes, and we will see what I can do. The hardest thing for me is cutting my big meals, and beer intake. However, I have to do it, I have to establish a pattern and develop a habit. Takes about, what...3 months to make a habit? I forgot. I would look back on the ages of 13 when I discovered how to pleasure myself...that' s a tought habbit to stop.

B