What's the point of HST training??

Okay, if you say so about the chin-ups....
 
That seems like a lot of volume to me.

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

Listen up & listen good.

I'm well aware of the principles of HST and I've already told you myself it incorporates principles I approve of, hence the reason why I state it's fit for a beginner to cherrypick from  These are the staple of most routines inclusive of blanket annd individually constructed routines.

If it's framework was as loose it you claim it would not stand as a training program (which is is).

I think you need another re-read.

Please explain the difference between the principles HST follows VS the Methods HST follows.. sounds like you've backed youself into a corner and you're trying to wiggle out..

I'm only quoting what you said... It would be much easier, less painfull for you if you just retract your statent and admit you spoke out of turn.. nothing wrong with doing that..

I stand by everything I have said and will continue to do so.

You've already highlighted the training principles of HST, as I have explained method.

There are principles and ways of following these principles.  Theres many branches to the tree.

I don't know why we are going around in circles?  Maybe I do need to personally deliver a transcript.

I'm not going to agree with you in the same way you aren't going to agree with me.  If you insist on following a labelled set of principles, then so be it.  I got them from elsewhere years ago without the pretty logo. I'm confident of my training practices, as are the people who take my advice. 

ORIGINAL: brihead301

Okay, if you say so about the chin-ups....

That seems like a lot of volume to me.

It is a lot of volume,  but.. i am NO expert.  so if you have any input, throw it my way please.  I'm contemplating trying this exact routine today.. and i'm pretty sure that it's gonna KICK MY BUTT! haha...   thank god i'll have my NO-Explode for this haha

So you think I should downsize that routine a wee-bit?  howso?

My name is FOX.... and I approve this message.

ORIGINAL: kingkebabs

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

Listen up & listen good.

I'm well aware of the principles of HST and I've already told you myself it incorporates principles I approve of, hence the reason why I state it's fit for a beginner to cherrypick from  These are the staple of most routines inclusive of blanket annd individually constructed routines.

If it's framework was as loose it you claim it would not stand as a training program (which is is).

I think you need another re-read.

Please explain the difference between the principles HST follows VS the Methods HST follows.. sounds like you've backed youself into a corner and you're trying to wiggle out..

I'm only quoting what you said... It would be much easier, less painfull for you if you just retract your statent and admit you spoke out of turn.. nothing wrong with doing that..

I stand by everything I have said and will continue to do so.

You've already highlighted the training principles of HST, as I have explained method.

There are principles and ways of following these principles.  Theres many branches to the tree.

I don't know why we are going around in circles?  Maybe I do need to personally deliver a transcript.

I'm not going to agree with you in the same way you aren't going to agree with me.  If you insist on following a labelled set of principles, then so be it.  I got them from elsewhere years ago without the pretty logo. I'm confident of my training practices, as are the people who take my advice. 

Just out of curiousity, what is your training like?   I've asked you a couple of questions, and you seem to just blow me off.  What's a usual week at the gym like for you?  what are your stats?  how much progress have you made in a certain amount of time.  I really am interested in what you do, and how you do it.

My name is FOX.... and I approve this message.

ORIGINAL: brihead301
So if I were to do something like this:
...

Yeah, that's roughly the idea, thought the exercises for week 2 would be the same as week 1 but with more weight. And there would be more total exercises than that, e.g. there'd be some sort of bench every day (maybe one day is incline, another is flat, and another is dumbbells, or they could all be the same).

If you're interested, you may as well just read the introductory pages at the HST site and look at the sample routines.

ORIGINAL: smoundzou
Please explain the difference between the principles HST follows VS the Methods HST follows.. sounds like you've backed youself into a corner and you're trying to wiggle out..

The king would appreciate it if you let him complete his walk-back in peace.

ORIGINAL: kingkebabs
I stand by everything I have said and will continue to do so.

The king is NEVER WRONG!

ORIGINAL: TheSilverFox

Just out of curiousity, what is your training like?   I've asked you a couple of questions, and you seem to just blow me off.  What's a usual week at the gym like for you?  what are your stats?  how much progress have you made in a certain amount of time.  I really am interested in what you do, and how you do it.

I don't think stats have anything to do with the argument, though strictly off topic....

My training is abbreviated.  I train exclusively with a 2 inch axle in the gym environment.  Outside I perform the farmers, maybe a medley comprising farmers walk and axle press (clean and press) I lift all sorts of obscure objects and sandbags for dynamic objects.  I'm hopefully due to complete in an amateur strongman comp in the near future, but currently the main focus at present is bar work.

Stats currently are 230 at around 19% BF.  Training actively for 6-7 years. Bodyweight increase in the region of 80lbs within that time.

The king is NEVER WRONG!

Yes! We're cool now?

Can I have your msn?

ORIGINAL: kingkebabs

ORIGINAL: TheSilverFox

Just out of curiousity, what is your training like?   I've asked you a couple of questions, and you seem to just blow me off.  What's a usual week at the gym like for you?  what are your stats?  how much progress have you made in a certain amount of time.  I really am interested in what you do, and how you do it.

I don't think stats have anything to do with the argument, though strictly off topic....

My training is abbreviated.  I train exclusively with a 2 inch axle in the gym environment.  Outside I perform the farmers, maybe a medley comprising farmers walk and axle press (clean and press) I lift all sorts of obscure objects and sandbags for dynamic objects.  I'm hopefully due to complete in an amateur strongman comp in the near future, but currently the main focus at present is bar work.

Stats currently are 230 at around 19% BF.  Training actively for 6-7 years. Bodyweight increase in the region of 80lbs within that time.

cool.  sounds like you're going for power-lifting. or strength...  am i right?  correct me if i'm wrong.

My name is FOX.... and I approve this message.

ORIGINAL: jheft

ORIGINAL: brihead301
So if I were to do something like this:
...

Yeah, that's roughly the idea, thought the exercises for week 2 would be the same as week 1 but with more weight. And there would be more total exercises than that, e.g. there'd be some sort of bench every day (maybe one day is incline, another is flat, and another is dumbbells, or they could all be the same).

If you're interested, you may as well just read the introductory pages at the HST site and look at the sample routines.

ORIGINAL: smoundzou
Please explain the difference between the principles HST follows VS the Methods HST follows.. sounds like you've backed youself into a corner and you're trying to wiggle out..

The king would appreciate it if you let him complete his walk-back in peace.

ORIGINAL: kingkebabs
I stand by everything I have said and will continue to do so.

The king is NEVER WRONG!

 
No, I was just basically following Rippetoe's exercise selection - squat every workout, deadlifts on wednesdays, chins/pulls on fridays, alternate bench and overhead press every workout.

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

ORIGINAL: TheSilverFox

ORIGINAL: kingkebabs

ORIGINAL: TheSilverFox

Just out of curiousity, what is your training like?   I've asked you a couple of questions, and you seem to just blow me off.  What's a usual week at the gym like for you?  what are your stats?  how much progress have you made in a certain amount of time.  I really am interested in what you do, and how you do it.

I don't think stats have anything to do with the argument, though strictly off topic....

My training is abbreviated.  I train exclusively with a 2 inch axle in the gym environment.  Outside I perform the farmers, maybe a medley comprising farmers walk and axle press (clean and press) I lift all sorts of obscure objects and sandbags for dynamic objects.  I'm hopefully due to complete in an amateur strongman comp in the near future, but currently the main focus at present is bar work.

Stats currently are 230 at around 19% BF.  Training actively for 6-7 years. Bodyweight increase in the region of 80lbs within that time.

cool.  sounds like you're going for power-lifting. or strength...  am i right?  correct me if i'm wrong.

Training for functional strength and hypertrophy.

ORIGINAL: TheSilverFox

ORIGINAL: brihead301

Okay, if you say so about the chin-ups....

That seems like a lot of volume to me.

It is a lot of volume,  but.. i am NO expert.  so if you have any input, throw it my way please.  I'm contemplating trying this exact routine today.. and i'm pretty sure that it's gonna KICK MY BUTT! haha...   thank god i'll have my NO-Explode for this haha

So you think I should downsize that routine a wee-bit?  howso?

 
You asked for my input.....  I think you should pick 3 big compound lifts and do those only.  Choose from full squats, deads, bench, overhead press, row, and chin-ups.  Too much else will result in LESS gains.  Remember you don't grow in the gym, you grow outside of the gym during recovery.  Beating yourself to oblivion every workout, so much that you are unable to recover from the workout, is counterproductive.  Too many people have the "I have to do all these exercises or else I won't hit the small head of my pectorialis minor" syndrome (sorry about the spelling).  The big 6 will do it all for you.  If you really feel the need to directly work you arms, do a few sets of 1 bicep and a few sets of 1 tricep exercise 1 day per week.  That's more then enough. 
 
Chins work your biceps EXACTLY the same as straight bar curls do, except you use more muscles.  Essentially, you get more bang for your buck by doing chins.  I say chin-ups not pull-ups (palms facing towards your body).  Pull-ups are great too, but they don't involve the biceps as much.  In fact curls may be better then pull-ups regarding bicep stimulation.  Chin-ups, on the other hand, are far more superior in every single way.  They directly work your biceps plus a s***load of other major upper body muscles.  My arms are the biggest they have ever been, and all I do absolutely no isolation exercises and I eat a ton of food. 
 
This is all explained in NROL, SS, and PP. 

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

And that's only if you're planning on doing the 3-day, full-body routine that we're talking about here.  If you plan on doing a split of some sort, then the routine would look a bit different. 
 
 

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

ORIGINAL: brihead301

ORIGINAL: TheSilverFox

ORIGINAL: brihead301

Okay, if you say so about the chin-ups....

That seems like a lot of volume to me.

It is a lot of volume,  but.. i am NO expert.  so if you have any input, throw it my way please.  I'm contemplating trying this exact routine today.. and i'm pretty sure that it's gonna KICK MY BUTT! haha...   thank god i'll have my NO-Explode for this haha

So you think I should downsize that routine a wee-bit?  howso?

You asked for my input.....  I think you should pick 3 big compound lifts and do those only.  Choose from full squats, deads, bench, overhead press, row, and chin-ups.  Too much else will result in LESS gains.  Remember you don't grow in the gym, you grow outside of the gym during recovery.  Beating yourself to oblivion every workout, so much that you are unable to recover from the workout, is counterproductive.  Too many people have the "I have to do all these exercises or else I won't hit the small head of my pectorialis minor" syndrome (sorry about the spelling).  The big 6 will do it all for you.  If you really feel the need to directly work you arms, do a few sets of 1 bicep and a few sets of 1 tricep exercise 1 day per week.  That's more then enough. 

Chins work your biceps EXACTLY the same as straight bar curls do, except you use more muscles.  Essentially, you get more bang for your buck by doing chins.  I say chin-ups not pull-ups (palms facing towards your body).  Pull-ups are great too, but they don't involve the biceps as much.  In fact curls may be better then pull-ups regarding bicep stimulation.  Chin-ups, on the other hand, are far more superior in every single way.  They directly work your biceps plus a s***load of other major upper body muscles.  My arms are the biggest they have ever been, and all I do absolutely no isolation exercises and I eat a ton of food. 

This is all explained in NROL, SS, and PP. 

Listen to the man, and his critque of your new routine. You will be pleasantly surprised.

After looking at the post you made below I can certainly see why you might not particularly care for HST type training... the type of training you are doing is very specific toward your goal of competing in a strongman competition.. Far different from the average lifter who is going to the gym 3-4 days weekly..
 
While I still don't agree with your views regarding HST routines, I think you should be more selective regarding how make judgments on particular training methods... You've been training 6-7 years.. I've been training over 25, 30 if you count my teenage training years from when I was 15... 
 
Stating your opinion is one thing but blatantly blasting someone's training method isn't at all necessary.. and could have been done in a far better way... I don't agree with every training philosophy being spread on the net either.. but when a training concept such as HST contains such basic principles, it's very hard to dispute the fact it works.  Just a lot of un-necessary comments..
 
 
 

ORIGINAL: kingkebabs

ORIGINAL: TheSilverFox

Just out of curiousity, what is your training like?   I've asked you a couple of questions, and you seem to just blow me off.  What's a usual week at the gym like for you?  what are your stats?  how much progress have you made in a certain amount of time.  I really am interested in what you do, and how you do it.

I don't think stats have anything to do with the argument, though strictly off topic....

My training is abbreviated.  I train exclusively with a 2 inch axle in the gym environment.  Outside I perform the farmers, maybe a medley comprising farmers walk and axle press (clean and press) I lift all sorts of obscure objects and sandbags for dynamic objects.  I'm hopefully due to complete in an amateur strongman comp in the near future, but currently the main focus at present is bar work.

Stats currently are 230 at around 19% BF.  Training actively for 6-7 years. Bodyweight increase in the region of 80lbs within that time.

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

ORIGINAL: brihead301
No, I was just basically following Rippetoe's exercise selection - squat every workout, deadlifts on wednesdays, chins/pulls on fridays, alternate bench and overhead press every workout.

OK, I guess I misunderstood what you were asking about.

I only skimmed Starting Strength and Practical Programming so far (and I don't have them in front of me at the moment to refer to). Does he really suggest just a few sets of just three exercises per workout (recognizing that they are big, compound exercises)?

It seems like it'd be an awfully short workout unless I was giving myself 5 minutes of rest every set or taking 20 seconds for every rep or something... Obviously, Rippetoe knows more than me though...