What's the point of HST training??

ORIGINAL: brihead301

Honestly, I never even looked at the HST website, so correct me if I'm wrong.  From my understanding of HST, all it is is this:

- Two weeks of training high reps increasing the weights used on each workout.
- Two weeks of training medium reps (appox. 5 reps less then the previous 2 weeks), and also using progressive loading
- Two weeks of training low reps (approx. 5 reps less then the previous 2 weeks), and using progressive loading.

Repeat the cycle starting over with high reps, but ending each 2 week cycle using weights that are higher then what were used during the first cycle. 

Any selection of exercises can be used, and the # of sets is up to the individual to choose.  Also, how to arrange the exercises and how many days a week to work out is also up to the individual.  The main thing is to just follow the guidelines in bold.
 
Is that right?  If so, then that is not a cookie cutter or blanket routine.

what is your HST routine.  exercise -wise..?   I don't care about reps.  just tell me how you vary the exercises please if you would.  HELP ME OUT GUYS!

My name is FOX.... and I approve this message.

Cater to the individuals needs???  The program can be modified anyway the trainee wants too.. as long as the basic principles of the program are followed... that just proves you have absolutely no understanding of the training method.. and were simply trying to slam something you have no knowledge of..
 
that still doesn't answer the questions to your statement.. You specifically said.. "
 
YOU DO LIKE THE TRAINING METHODS OF HST.. THAT IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAN SAYING IT DOESN'T CATER TO INDIVIDUAL NEEDS.. go back and look at your post...
 
You should be more careful as to how you phrase your comments.. or either explain them..
 

ORIGINAL: kingkebabs

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

That's not what you said.. you said.."I don't like the training methods."  I asked which methods that HST emphasis do you not like.. simple question..

Time under tension..?
Progressive Load?
Frequency to avoid muscle adaption?

Simple questions that can be answered with a simple answer..  No indepth explaination needed.. You have time to write an entire synopsis on training theory.. this should be a cake walk..

ORIGINAL: kingkebabs

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

FYI.. you never answered the questions.. Which training methods of HST do you dislike and why.. I responsed with several other questions you never answered.. regarding the principles HST follows.. I curious to your repsonse..

I've already given many reason in my extensive post on the previous page as to why I don't favour programs such as HST.  I don't need to disect it any more than I need to disect NROL.

I've made my opinion clear.

IT'S A BLANKET PROGRAM WHICH DOES NOT CATER FOR INIDIVIDUAL NEED.

How many times does it need to be said?  It's nothing to do with the general training principles. The majorirty of the principles are used in many non-blanket routines.

Do you want me to come and mail you this post or tell you the same thing in person?

What don't you understand about the disadvantages of a blanket routine being prescribed to everyone?  Cast your mind away from progressive overload and the like for one moment and try your best to think about movement and everything else which has already been said inclusive of imblances and response....

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

You've got most of it right, brihead. The other major point would be that it's (generally) a full-body routine. You'd be hitting each exercise 3 times per week, but only two (or sometimes one) sets per exercise per workout. You'd end up with roughly the same number of sets over the course of the week as you would with a split routine, but they'd be spread out over the course of the week instead of targeting each muscle group once a week.

Also, the two weeks per rep range thing is not hard and fast, it's more or less the example breakdown they give to accommodate progressive load. You could do something like 15, 13, 11, 9, 7, 5 instead, if you felt like changing it every week. They use 15, 10 and 5 each for two weeks for simplicity. They also suggest (optionally) two additional weeks of eccentric (negative) reps.

You're right, it's not a cookie cutter routine. It's a collection of principles upon which a routine can be built. They give some example routines, but they are just examples.

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

Cater to the individuals needs???  The program can be modified anyway the trainee wants too.. as long as the basic principles of the program are followed... that just proves you have absolutely no understanding of the training method.. and were simply trying to slam something you have no knowledge of..

that still doesn't answer the questions to your statement.. You specifically said.. "

YOU DO LIKE THE TRAINING METHODS OF HST.. THAT IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAN SAYING IT DOESN'T CATER TO INDIVIDUAL NEEDS.. go back and look at your post...

You should be more careful as to how you phrase your comments.. or either explain them..

ORIGINAL: kingkebabs

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

That's not what you said.. you said.."I don't like the training methods."  I asked which methods that HST emphasis do you not like.. simple question..

Time under tension..?
Progressive Load?
Frequency to avoid muscle adaption?

Simple questions that can be answered with a simple answer..  No indepth explaination needed.. You have time to write an entire synopsis on training theory.. this should be a cake walk..

ORIGINAL: kingkebabs

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

FYI.. you never answered the questions.. Which training methods of HST do you dislike and why.. I responsed with several other questions you never answered.. regarding the principles HST follows.. I curious to your repsonse..

I've already given many reason in my extensive post on the previous page as to why I don't favour programs such as HST.  I don't need to disect it any more than I need to disect NROL.

I've made my opinion clear.

IT'S A BLANKET PROGRAM WHICH DOES NOT CATER FOR INIDIVIDUAL NEED.

How many times does it need to be said?  It's nothing to do with the general training principles. The majorirty of the principles are used in many non-blanket routines.

Do you want me to come and mail you this post or tell you the same thing in person?

What don't you understand about the disadvantages of a blanket routine being prescribed to everyone?  Cast your mind away from progressive overload and the like for one moment and try your best to think about movement and everything else which has already been said inclusive of imblances and response....

Listen up & listen good.

I'm well aware of the principles of HST and I've already told you myself it incorporates principles I approve of, hence the reason why I state it's fit for a beginner to cherrypick from  These are the staple of most routines inclusive of blanket annd individually constructed routines.

If it's framework was as loose it you claim it would not stand as a training program (which is is).

I think you need another re-read.

Thats what I thought...

I took what was on that site, and manipulated it into a program for me. My "HST" workout/exercises is different than almost all that I have read about.

I was reading about the blanket statement routine remark, and I just don't agree with that. there are a lot of different things you can alter with the set of principles they give you, the same if I read a 5day split and just altered it to my specifications.

Are you suggesting all full body workouts are only for beginners?

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

ORIGINAL: coldfire
The point of "blanket routines" is to give you a reference point which might fit you and provide some progress, after which you should be able to apply the same principles, and what you learned, and to write your own routine which fits you.

That's why most blanket routines' targetted audience is beginners/low level intermediates. Some are good, some are not.

People with years of experience running the same type of routine, have no experience at all, or at least basic understanding of what they are doing.

IMO that's the biggest misconception with HST, HST is not a program, it's basically a set of principle rules.. that if applied will work...

current 5rm On the texas method
Squat:325
Deadlift:365
Bench:255
My lifting journal

http://strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?s=38c084ec0455b629ed0f09e4af40aeaf&t=2407&page=8

You just outlined the basic principles of following HST.... there are no standard exercises.. no set days or patterns.. it's simply principle... Can be used by beginner, intermediate and advanced trainees...
 
 

ORIGINAL: brihead301

Honestly, I never even looked at the HST website, so correct me if I'm wrong.  From my understanding of HST, all it is is this:

- Two weeks of training high reps increasing the weights used on each workout.
- Two weeks of training medium reps (appox. 5 reps less then the previous 2 weeks), and also using progressive loading
- Two weeks of training low reps (approx. 5 reps less then the previous 2 weeks), and using progressive loading.

Repeat the cycle starting over with high reps, but ending each 2 week cycle using weights that are higher then what were used during the first cycle. 

Any selection of exercises can be used, and the # of sets is up to the individual to choose.  Also, how to arrange the exercises and how many days a week to work out is also up to the individual.  The main thing is to just follow the guidelines in bold.
 
Is that right?  If so, then that is not a cookie cutter or blanket routine.

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

ORIGINAL: TheSilverFox
what is your HST routine. exercise -wise..? I don't care about reps. just tell me how you vary the exercises please if you would. HELP ME OUT GUYS!

They give some examples at the HST site. There's one at the bottom of this page. But they're just samples to illustrate the idea. You can substitute other exercises other than the ones shown.

ORIGINAL: TheSilverFox

ORIGINAL: brihead301

Honestly, I never even looked at the HST website, so correct me if I'm wrong.  From my understanding of HST, all it is is this:

- Two weeks of training high reps increasing the weights used on each workout.
- Two weeks of training medium reps (appox. 5 reps less then the previous 2 weeks), and also using progressive loading
- Two weeks of training low reps (approx. 5 reps less then the previous 2 weeks), and using progressive loading.

Repeat the cycle starting over with high reps, but ending each 2 week cycle using weights that are higher then what were used during the first cycle. 

Any selection of exercises can be used, and the # of sets is up to the individual to choose.  Also, how to arrange the exercises and how many days a week to work out is also up to the individual.  The main thing is to just follow the guidelines in bold.
 
Is that right?  If so, then that is not a cookie cutter or blanket routine.

what is your HST routine.  exercise -wise..?   I don't care about reps.  just tell me how you vary the exercises please if you would.  HELP ME OUT GUYS!

 
I'm not doing HST, I'm learning as much from this thread as you are, lol.  I just said that that was my understanding of what I thought it was.
 
Exercise-wise, you should be using Squats, deadlifts, bench press, overhead press, Barbell rows, and pull-ups (and lunges too...I love lunges) for ANY routine you do.  Those are the exercises that build the most muscle and strength.
 
Curls, lateral raises, leg extentions, flyes, tricep kickbacks, etc...Are examples of isolation exercises, and should be used sparingly if at all.

72

I do 2 exercises per body part, accept for bi/tri, they

I try to do all compound exercises, and I do a lot of supersets. Accept the last 2 days which I split, I just keep the rest period down.

Like jheft said there is an example on the site, just manipulate it to fit your needs/goals.

ORIGINAL: jheft

ORIGINAL: TheSilverFox
what is your HST routine. exercise -wise..? I don't care about reps. just tell me how you vary the exercises please if you would. HELP ME OUT GUYS!

They give some examples at the HST site. There's one at the bottom of this page. But they're just samples to illustrate the idea. You can substitute other exercises other than the ones shown.

current 5rm On the texas method
Squat:325
Deadlift:365
Bench:255
My lifting journal

http://strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?s=38c084ec0455b629ed0f09e4af40aeaf&t=2407&page=8

Listen up & listen good.

I'm well aware of the principles of HST and I've already told you myself it incorporates principles I approve of, hence the reason why I state it's fit for a beginner to cherrypick from  These are the staple of most routines inclusive of blanket annd individually constructed routines.

If it's framework was as loose it you claim it would not stand as a training program (which is is).

I think you need another re-read.

 
Please explain the difference between the principles HST follows VS the Methods HST follows.. sounds like you've backed youself into a corner and you're trying to wiggle out..
 
I'm only quoting what you said... It would be much easier, less painfull for you if you just retract your statent and admit you spoke out of turn.. nothing wrong with doing that.. 
 
 
 

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

ORIGINAL: brihead301

ORIGINAL: TheSilverFox

ORIGINAL: brihead301

Honestly, I never even looked at the HST website, so correct me if I'm wrong.  From my understanding of HST, all it is is this:

- Two weeks of training high reps increasing the weights used on each workout.
- Two weeks of training medium reps (appox. 5 reps less then the previous 2 weeks), and also using progressive loading
- Two weeks of training low reps (approx. 5 reps less then the previous 2 weeks), and using progressive loading.

Repeat the cycle starting over with high reps, but ending each 2 week cycle using weights that are higher then what were used during the first cycle. 

Any selection of exercises can be used, and the # of sets is up to the individual to choose.  Also, how to arrange the exercises and how many days a week to work out is also up to the individual.  The main thing is to just follow the guidelines in bold.
 
Is that right?  If so, then that is not a cookie cutter or blanket routine.

what is your HST routine.  exercise -wise..?   I don't care about reps.  just tell me how you vary the exercises please if you would.  HELP ME OUT GUYS!

I'm not doing HST, I'm learning as much from this thread as you are, lol.  I just said that that was my understanding of what I thought it was.

Exercise-wise, you should be using Squats, deadlifts, bench press, overhead press, Barbell rows, and pull-ups (and lunges too...I love lunges) for ANY routine you do.  Those are the exercises that build the most muscle and strength.

Curls, lateral raises, leg extentions, flyes, tricep kickbacks, etc...Are examples of isolation exercises, and should be used sparingly if at all.

well, i have some pretty cut arms right now,  so wouldn't it be in my best interested to throw some type of curl and tricep exercise in with this HST workout?  Otherwise... my arms would atrophy correct?  b/c all those compound movements still don't seem to give enought stress to the arms.  am i right?

My name is FOX.... and I approve this message.

.

current 5rm On the texas method
Squat:325
Deadlift:365
Bench:255
My lifting journal

http://strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?s=38c084ec0455b629ed0f09e4af40aeaf&t=2407&page=8

ORIGINAL: jheft

You've got most of it right, brihead. The other major point would be that it's (generally) a full-body routine. You'd be hitting each exercise 3 times per week, but only two (or sometimes one) sets per exercise per workout. You'd end up with roughly the same number of sets over the course of the week as you would with a split routine, but they'd be spread out over the course of the week instead of targeting each muscle group once a week.

Also, the two weeks per rep range thing is not hard and fast, it's more or less the example breakdown they give to accommodate progressive load. You could do something like 15, 13, 11, 9, 7, 5 instead, if you felt like changing it every week. They use 15, 10 and 5 each for two weeks for simplicity. They also suggest (optionally) two additional weeks of eccentric (negative) reps.

You're right, it's not a cookie cutter routine. It's a collection of principles upon which a routine can be built. They give some example routines, but they are just examples.

 
Thanks for clearing that up.  I'm actually pretty interested in this HST thing now.  After this session of NROL, I may give this a shot. 
 
So if I were to do something like this:
 
week 1:
Squat - 2 x 15
bench - 2 x 15
deadlift - 2 x 15
 
Squat - 2 x 15
Press - 2 x 15
Row - 2 x 15
 
Squat - 2 x 15
bench - 2 x 15
pull-ups - 2 x 15
 
week 2:
Squat - 2 x 15
Press - 2 x 15
deadlift - 2 x 15
 
Squat - 2 x 15
bench press - 2 x 15
Row - 2 x 15
 
Squat - 2 x 15
Press - 2 x 15
chin-ups - 2 x 15
 
And I then lowered the reps on the following weeks to 2 x 10, then 2 x 5 two weeks after that....
 
Would that be a good HST cycle?
 
 

72

ORIGINAL: TheSilverFox

ORIGINAL: brihead301

ORIGINAL: TheSilverFox

ORIGINAL: brihead301

Honestly, I never even looked at the HST website, so correct me if I'm wrong.  From my understanding of HST, all it is is this:

- Two weeks of training high reps increasing the weights used on each workout.
- Two weeks of training medium reps (appox. 5 reps less then the previous 2 weeks), and also using progressive loading
- Two weeks of training low reps (approx. 5 reps less then the previous 2 weeks), and using progressive loading.

Repeat the cycle starting over with high reps, but ending each 2 week cycle using weights that are higher then what were used during the first cycle. 

Any selection of exercises can be used, and the # of sets is up to the individual to choose.  Also, how to arrange the exercises and how many days a week to work out is also up to the individual.  The main thing is to just follow the guidelines in bold.
 
Is that right?  If so, then that is not a cookie cutter or blanket routine.

what is your HST routine.  exercise -wise..?   I don't care about reps.  just tell me how you vary the exercises please if you would.  HELP ME OUT GUYS!

I'm not doing HST, I'm learning as much from this thread as you are, lol.  I just said that that was my understanding of what I thought it was.

Exercise-wise, you should be using Squats, deadlifts, bench press, overhead press, Barbell rows, and pull-ups (and lunges too...I love lunges) for ANY routine you do.  Those are the exercises that build the most muscle and strength.

Curls, lateral raises, leg extentions, flyes, tricep kickbacks, etc...Are examples of isolation exercises, and should be used sparingly if at all.

well, i have some pretty cut arms right now,  so wouldn't it be in my best interested to throw some type of curl and tricep exercise in with this HST workout?  Otherwise... my arms would atrophy correct?  b/c all those compound movements still don't seem to give enought stress to the arms.  am i right?

 
No, compounds hit your arms just fine.  You don't really need isolations.  That's one of the main principles of those 3 books I told you about.  Any pulling exercise will hit your biceps, especially chin-ups (which are 100x better then curls), and any pushing exercise will hit your tris (especially dips and close grip presses).

72

ORIGINAL: brihead301

ORIGINAL: TheSilverFox

ORIGINAL: brihead301

ORIGINAL: TheSilverFox

ORIGINAL: brihead301

Honestly, I never even looked at the HST website, so correct me if I'm wrong.  From my understanding of HST, all it is is this:

- Two weeks of training high reps increasing the weights used on each workout.
- Two weeks of training medium reps (appox. 5 reps less then the previous 2 weeks), and also using progressive loading
- Two weeks of training low reps (approx. 5 reps less then the previous 2 weeks), and using progressive loading.

Repeat the cycle starting over with high reps, but ending each 2 week cycle using weights that are higher then what were used during the first cycle. 

Any selection of exercises can be used, and the # of sets is up to the individual to choose.  Also, how to arrange the exercises and how many days a week to work out is also up to the individual.  The main thing is to just follow the guidelines in bold.
 
Is that right?  If so, then that is not a cookie cutter or blanket routine.

what is your HST routine.  exercise -wise..?   I don't care about reps.  just tell me how you vary the exercises please if you would.  HELP ME OUT GUYS!

I'm not doing HST, I'm learning as much from this thread as you are, lol.  I just said that that was my understanding of what I thought it was.

Exercise-wise, you should be using Squats, deadlifts, bench press, overhead press, Barbell rows, and pull-ups (and lunges too...I love lunges) for ANY routine you do.  Those are the exercises that build the most muscle and strength.

Curls, lateral raises, leg extentions, flyes, tricep kickbacks, etc...Are examples of isolation exercises, and should be used sparingly if at all.

well, i have some pretty cut arms right now,  so wouldn't it be in my best interested to throw some type of curl and tricep exercise in with this HST workout?  Otherwise... my arms would atrophy correct?  b/c all those compound movements still don't seem to give enought stress to the arms.  am i right?

No, compounds hit your arms just fine.  You don't really need isolations.  That's one of the main principles of those 3 books I told you about.  Any pulling exercise will hit your biceps, especially chin-ups (which are 100x better then curls), and any pushing exercise will hit your tris (especially dips and close grip presses).

i disagree with the chinups working the biceps better than curls.  not saying that they don't work them.. b/c i'm well aware that they do.    I just feel that I need to throw in a few little isolation exercises for the arms if i'm going to try this HST workout is all.

Here's what I was thinking about trying


Week 1

Squats 2 x 15
Flatbench 2 x 15
Deadlifts 2 x 15
Rows 2 x 15
Shoulder Press 2 x 15
Shrugs 1 x 15
Bicep Hammercurls 2 x 15
Tricep pulldown 2 x 15
Calf raises 2 x 15
Abs (have no idea how many do do???)

And that's just week 1.  the following week, i would change up the squats to maybe legpress,  flatbench goes to incline,  rows changes to chinups...  and i think youg et the idea.  i want to hit this hardcore.  Does this routine i just made up look too hardcore?? I'm trying to get the really difficult stuff over with first (compound) and then work just a bit on the extremities.    Input anyone??

My name is FOX.... and I approve this message.