What's the point of HST training??

Taken directly from the HST site..
 
4) Strategic Deconditioning
At this point, it is necessary to either increase the load (Progressive load), or decrease the degree of conditioning to the load (Strategic Deconditioning).
 

ORIGINAL: coldfire

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

Strategic Deconditioning:
Is something all athletes us regardless of what they call it. Strategic Deconditioning is what allows a lifter to continue to make forward progress as opposed to stalling and possibly over-reaching.

Just a small note. Strategic decondition is not used by athletes. Athletes have deloading phases, which are actually the opposite. During these phases the fatigue decreases and the fitness increases.

Strategic decondioning is used for decreasing the fitness level. This allows further hypertrophy according to the author.

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

ORIGINAL: jheft

It serves as a prime base of viral marketing to promote HSN Supplements.

This is your typical attitude - you don't feel like addressing the issue substantively, so you just throw out an ad hominem.

I rest my case my impressionable friend.

Now you're just being obtuse. What principles in the book stop applying when you become experienced? What specifically is wrong with the NROL routines for an intermediate or experienced lifter who is looking for something new?

I think you forget that I couldn't care less of what you think of my attitude.  You stepped up with attitude of your own and you got bit.  Don't cry if you feed the dog your finger.

NROL has training principles which can be taken from, however anyone at any sort of advanced level might only gain the smallest amount of knowledge from the book.  It's a mainstream beginners guide written by two knowledgeable people who are capable of writing a lot more in depth for the sake of books, articles and seminars for the more advanced audience if need be.

You could learn something by reading a history book intended for a 6 year old, it doesn't take away from the fact that the target audience is young children.

Like I said, the hardest part for me is trying to find the ideal rep range to work in for each of the 6 main lifts.  Routines like NROL and HST (to an extent) are just premade set/rep schemes that are laid out for people.  As I said, most people don't know what rep range works the best for them so utilizing all ranges (high, medium, and low) into a routine is a good thing for most people despite which range works the best for them.  In fact, it may even be better to use varying rep ranges in a routine rather then just trying to find the one range that works the best.  This may allow for adequate recovery from training in the other rep ranges. 
 
These premade routines also take volume into consideration so that the trainee will not be overtraining or undertraining.  NROL actually has specific year-long programs designed for different types of people that may respond differently to different weekly volume loads. Determining how much volume to use is not an easy thing to determine either.  Some of these "cookie cutter" routines figure out a good amount of volume to use that can apply to anybody.  Again, NROL is a perfect example of this.
 
Rippetoe's novice routine and Bill Starr's intermediate and advanced routines are excellent routines too.  In fact starting with Rippetoe's routine until you stall, and then moving on to Bill Starr's routine may be the best possible way one could train for strength.  The only problem with their routines is that they are not designed to stimulate hypertrophy.  Using varying rep ranges may be better for hypertrophy for most people, but maybe not the best method to get stronger.   
 
Anything will work really, as long as you have "The big 6", a proper diet, and the determination to do it.  Most cookie cutter routines suck, but there are a few good ones.  I think NROL and HST seem like good guidelines to follow if you don't know what the ideal rep range and volume is. 
 
I'm just babbling now.  I gotta go drink some damn coffee.

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I picked the barbell / dumbbell factors (or "bodybuilding" factors as some might call it) from set blanket routines I followed when I was a beginner.

So are you simply closed off to new ideas? Don't you every try anything new to see if there are some principles or methods you can apply to your own training to improve your results? If there is something new or different about a routine, and it's got evidence to suggest utility, is there a reason why someone shouldn't give it a try, to see if they can apply the new principles to their own training, regardless of their experience level?

Again, your attitude seems to be "I've got it all figured out, and there's nothing here worth concerning yourself with."

I think you forget that I couldn't care less of what you think of my attitude. You stepped up with attitude of your own and you got bit. Don't cry if you feed the dog your finger.

Golly gee, you sure showed me! Now you're the king of the whole 8th grade.

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

Taken directly from the HST site..

4) Strategic Deconditioning
At this point, it is necessary to either increase the load (Progressive load), or decrease the degree of conditioning to the load (Strategic Deconditioning).

ORIGINAL: coldfire

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

Strategic Deconditioning:
Is something all athletes us regardless of what they call it. Strategic Deconditioning is what allows a lifter to continue to make forward progress as opposed to stalling and possibly over-reaching.

Just a small note. Strategic decondition is not used by athletes. Athletes have deloading phases, which are actually the opposite. During these phases the fatigue decreases and the fitness increases.

Strategic decondioning is used for decreasing the fitness level. This allows further hypertrophy according to the author.

So?

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

FYI.. you never answered the questions.. Which training methods of HST do you dislike and why.. I responsed with several other questions you never answered.. regarding the principles HST follows.. I curious to your repsonse..

I've already given many reason in my extensive post on the previous page as to why I don't favour programs such as HST.  I don't need to disect it any more than I need to disect NROL.

I've made my opinion clear.

ORIGINAL: brihead301
Like I said, the hardest part for me is trying to find the ideal rep range to work in for each of the 6 main lifts.  Routines like NROL and HST (to an extent) are just premade set/rep schemes that are laid out for people.  As I said, most people don't know what rep range works the best for them so utilizing all ranges (high, medium, and low) into a routine is a good thing for most people despite which range works the best for them.  

 
I think you're misunderstanding the point of mixed rep ranges.. it's not so you get a flavor of the week range.. the ranges fluctuate every two weeks so the trainee can continue to move forward with a progressive load and avoid stalling.. you can use any rep range you want.. as long as the range is far enough apart.. such as 12/8/4 or 20/10/5.. the point is not to go to failure and stall...

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

I dunno man, I think that NROL is an absolute essential read for everyone.  Most people think that they really are advanced, but very few are even at the intermediate level.  You know how many people I see at the gyms spending hours in the gym on thier biceps alone?  Months later they're still skinny little bastards.  Hell, for over 5 years I was one of them.  I had no diet, I didn't know what the term "compound lift" meant, and I didn't even train legs.  That book just puts it into the simplest way possible - train with compounds!!!  It has a good nutrition section too.  There are LOTS of ignorant people out there to the subject, and that book would be very informative to them all.
 
Really, if everyone in the whole training community read NROL, Starting strength, and Practical programming, there would be a lot more big, ripped, SOB's. 

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That's not what you said.. you said.."I don't like the training methods."  I asked which methods that HST emphasis do you not like.. simple question..
 
Time under tension..?
Progressive Load?
Frequency to avoid muscle adaption?
 
Simple questions that can be answered with a simple answer..  No indepth explaination needed.. You have time to write an entire synopsis on training theory.. this should be a cake walk..
 

ORIGINAL: kingkebabs

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

FYI.. you never answered the questions.. Which training methods of HST do you dislike and why.. I responsed with several other questions you never answered.. regarding the principles HST follows.. I curious to your repsonse..

I've already given many reason in my extensive post on the previous page as to why I don't favour programs such as HST.  I don't need to disect it any more than I need to disect NROL.

I've made my opinion clear.

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

ORIGINAL: brihead301
Like I said, the hardest part for me is trying to find the ideal rep range to work in for each of the 6 main lifts.  Routines like NROL and HST (to an extent) are just premade set/rep schemes that are laid out for people.  As I said, most people don't know what rep range works the best for them so utilizing all ranges (high, medium, and low) into a routine is a good thing for most people despite which range works the best for them.  

I think you're misunderstanding the point of mixed rep ranges.. it's not so you get a flavor of the week range.. the ranges fluctuate every two weeks so the trainee can continue to move forward with a progressive load and avoid stalling.. you can use any rep range you want.. as long as the range is far enough apart.. such as 12/8/4 or 20/10/5.. the point is not to go to failure and stall...

 
No, I do understand that.  NROL changes the range workout to workout rather then every two weeks.  Either way, you can keep progressing. 
 
I was just comparing these types of routines to Rippetoe's and Bill Starr's routines that use 5 reps only.  Those routines are designed to go on for years without stalling. 
 
For me, varying rep ranges eliminates the possibility of me missing out on more growth if I were to pick one that I think would work best for me when in reality it may not be the best one.  It also allows for recovery while training.  After doing some heavy 5x5's, doing some 4x10's acts as a recovery period.

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ORIGINAL: smoundzou

That's not what you said.. you said.."I don't like the training methods."  I asked which methods that HST emphasis do you not like.. simple question..

Time under tension..?
Progressive Load?
Frequency to avoid muscle adaption?

Simple questions that can be answered with a simple answer..  No indepth explaination needed.. You have time to write an entire synopsis on training theory.. this should be a cake walk..

ORIGINAL: kingkebabs

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

FYI.. you never answered the questions.. Which training methods of HST do you dislike and why.. I responsed with several other questions you never answered.. regarding the principles HST follows.. I curious to your repsonse..

I've already given many reason in my extensive post on the previous page as to why I don't favour programs such as HST.  I don't need to disect it any more than I need to disect NROL.

I've made my opinion clear.

IT'S A BLANKET PROGRAM WHICH DOES NOT CATER FOR INIDIVIDUAL NEED.

How many times does it need to be said?  It's nothing to do with the general training principles. The majorirty of the principles are used in many non-blanket routines.

Do you want me to come and mail you this post or tell you the same thing in person?

What don't you understand about the disadvantages of a blanket routine being prescribed to everyone?  Cast your mind away from progressive overload and the like for one moment and try your best to think about movement and everything else which has already been said inclusive of imblances and response....

ORIGINAL: brihead301

I dunno man, I think that NROL is an absolute essential read for everyone.  Most people think that they really are advanced, but very few are even at the intermediate level.  You know how many people I see at the gyms spending hours in the gym on thier biceps alone?  Months later they're still skinny little bastards.  Hell, for over 5 years I was one of them.  I had no diet, I didn't know what the term "compound lift" meant, and I didn't even train legs.  That book just puts it into the simplest way possible - train with compounds!!!  It has a good nutrition section too.  There are LOTS of ignorant people out there to the subject, and that book would be very informative to them all.

Really, if everyone in the whole training community read NROL, Starting strength, and Practical programming, there would be a lot more big, ripped, SOB's. 

well.. after i got thru reading all the arguementative comments... this one actually helped.

My name is FOX.... and I approve this message.

ORIGINAL: jheft

I picked the barbell / dumbbell factors (or "bodybuilding" factors as some might call it) from set blanket routines I followed when I was a beginner.

So are you simply closed off to new ideas? Don't you every try anything new to see if there are some principles or methods you can apply to your own training to improve your results? If there is something new or different about a routine, and it's got evidence to suggest utility, is there a reason why someone shouldn't give it a try, to see if they can apply the new principles to their own training, regardless of their experience level?

Again, your attitude seems to be "I've got it all figured out, and there's nothing here worth concerning yourself with."

Where are you trying to go with this? 

Where in that quote does it say I'm closed off to new ideas?

I static held a stone garden ornament of an owl in my last training session....

What I didn't have was a blanket guide telling me and every other man and his dog to do the same...

I can't make myself any more clear.

ORIGINAL: kingkebabs

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

FYI.. you never answered the questions.. Which training methods of HST do you dislike and why.. I responsed with several other questions you never answered.. regarding the principles HST follows.. I curious to your repsonse..

I've already given many reason in my extensive post on the previous page as to why I don't favour programs such as HST.  I don't need to disect it any more than I need to disect NROL.

I've made my opinion clear.

well.. it would be helpful if you would please just put your opinion up for not likeing HST for me please.  and WHY YOU FEEL THIS WAY!

who cares if you get pressure from others...  I"m new to this, and i really do want to try it, but would like feedback please.  I am interested in your opinion.  But you need to state it, and also detailed reasons why please so newbs like me (when it comes to HST) can understand it.

My name is FOX.... and I approve this message.

Honestly, I never even looked at the HST website, so correct me if I'm wrong.  From my understanding of HST, all it is is this:
 
- Two weeks of training high reps increasing the weights used on each workout.
- Two weeks of training medium reps (appox. 5 reps less then the previous 2 weeks), and also using progressive loading
- Two weeks of training low reps (approx. 5 reps less then the previous 2 weeks), and using progressive loading.
 
Repeat the cycle starting over with high reps, but ending each 2 week cycle using weights that are higher then what were used during the first cycle. 
 
Any selection of exercises can be used, and the # of sets is up to the individual to choose.  Also, how to arrange the exercises and how many days a week to work out is also up to the individual.  The main thing is to just follow the guidelines in bold.
 
Is that right?  If so, then that is not a cookie cutter or blanket routine.

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