Unlawfully detained

What a day, what a day.

I spent 6 hours in a cell and shouldn't have been arrested in the first place.

I'm walking home from the town center when a police car with 2 cops pulls up along side me and they ask to speak to me. I oblige.
They say "you've been seen acting suspiciously in town, so would you like to come and sit in the back of the car and we'll take your details please."
I ask, "well what do you mean by suspciously?"
"Sit in the back of the car and we'll discuss it further"
"I'm not sitting in the back until you tell me what the problem is"
"Give us your details and sit in the back or we'll have to arrest you"
"You haven't told me whether I'm accused of anything and until you do so I should not have to sit in the back of your car or give you my details"

At this point they lunged for me. I now have one on either arm trying to twist them behind my back whilst I am repeatedly asking "tell me what you mean acting suspiciously". Eventually they tell me "in a shop". I ask what shop. They say "boots".

I had been into boots (a beauty/skincare/bathroom product shop) and bought some shower gel - not acting any different from any other customer I might add (can only put 'suspiciously' down to my attire - a hoodie(hood down) and some tracksuit bottoms). I said to the 'officers' (I use that term loosely) the item I have bought along with the receipt is in a bag in my front pocket, and I shook my front pocket making the bag rustle, and told them to have a look. They ignored me.

Now one of them had put a cuff on one of my arm and was twisting it trying to get me to put my arm behind my back. I said "you're going to break my wrist", to which he replied "I will break it in a minute".
The link was getting increasingly tight and was getting extremely painful so I said I would put both hands together if he loosened the link. I did so and then got into the back of their vehicle.

Two more officers pulled up and they pulled me out of the car and did a search. I had 3 seperate documents on me all containing my name aswell as the item I had previously stated I had purchased along with receipt. They continued to ask my name despite having 3 seperate documents with it on, aswell as asking my birth date. At this point they still hadn't stated why I was cuffed or why I was being searched so I felt no obligation to answer anything and told them so.

They then pushed me back into the car, and as I'm half way in with my hands still behind my back, one of them does a sharp knee into the side of my leg. I returned it with a kick into his leg at which point they claimed "you're being arrested for assaulting an officer". This was the first and only time they had stated I was under arrest during the incident.

Anyway, I was taken to the local station where they filled in a few forms and their colleagues seemed to think the whole incident was hilarious. The one who kneed me stated he was within his power to do so in the means he did, and minutes later changed this to "I don't know what you're talking about". The other claimed "we were very leniant, we could have gassed you". To which I informed him he would have illegally done so as I was resisting, not posing a threat or endangering them in any way (I made sure I did nothing more than protest and resist as I did not want to be charged with assault).

I was then transported to a town 25 minutes away where the cells are. On the way the van stopped to pick up a pole who didn't speak any english and had just stolen 40 dvds from asda >_>

After a long wait in the cell (3 hours). My solicitor was ready and I went and spoke to him. He said he had already spoken to the investigating officer and they had agreed that excessive means had been used and the correct procedure was not followed by the police. I then did an interview where I learned the second officer had also now made an accusation of me attacking him. After the interview I was again left to talk to my solicitor about what I was going to do. He said I had two choices.

I either admit what I did was wrong (kicking the officer) and accept a caution, which will give me a record and I can leave in 15 minutes - this he recommended.
Or I can decide to fight the allegation which will almost definitely have it taken to trial, and likelyhood of me being convicted of assaulting an officer would be 70/30 in favor of a conviction due to it being my word against 2 officers - this he strongly advised against.

Being me, I could not have admitted I was in the wrong, as I strongly believe my actions were wholly justified, and so decided that I would fight the allegation. Back in the cell for another 3 hours whilst all statements were sent to the crown prosecution service to determine if it would go to trial (something my solicitor had said was a near guarantee).

Eventually I'm informed that the CPS had decided not to take the matter further. I put this down to the fact that they felt they were on rocky ground knowing the officers didn't follow correct procedures and knowing the fact that taking it further would cause questions to be asked into the officers conduct. I got processed and then released. Tbh the whole thing was total BS and shows just how much the police fails.

The fact that they hadn't stated they were arresting me, hadn't told me why they were cuffing me and hadn't told me what I was accused of, meant everything they did was unlawfully carried out.

Basically because it got taken no further and I didn't accept a caution, I have no record, no caution, no conviction. Had I taken the solicitors advice I would have a record with a caution. If it had got taken to court I would have requested the shop cctv because I would love to see this 'suspicious'.

I had earlier refused to be processed. Meaning I would not give my DNA or fingerprints, and was told if I refused they would force me, to which I said "then they'll have to force me". I'm not a criminal, and I shouldn't have to give my DNA or prints, certainly when I'm not convicted. However I did reluctantly agree to give them as I felt I had a strong case and if the matter were to go to court I didn't want it to be tinted by an obstruction or second assault charge which would likely happen during their 'forcefulness'. I now know however, that the case has been rejected, so am speaking to my solicitor tomorrow to get those prints and DNA destroyed.

One funny bit of the day was during the car ride I said to the officer, "you must be real proud of yourself, get a few C grades in school and then you can train to catch law abiding citizens like me".
He replied, "It pays more than you earn".
I said, "Don't worry I'll be earning more than you".
Him thinking he's being smart said, "like what? 45 quid a week?"
To which I replied, "Why, do you get 30?"

His face was like OMG I JUST GOT PWNED.

Basically 2 officers that were bored or wanted to meet their target number of arrests. One even stated, "I've had my adrenaline fix for the day".

Pathetic fail force.

V,
    You're the Clipart Photoshop GOD!

 

Virt,
   Oh, man, what a day you had!  You've got quite the set on ya there!!!  I can only imagine here (even though most of our cops are probably professional, idk) that once you start mouthing off to a cop here you're going to get pounded into the pavement.  If I found myself in that situation I wouldn't have said a word, other than that I want a lawyer.
    As bad as they were, I think you got away pretty easy with all the ridicule you threw at them.  That being said, could you pursue some sort of rights violation from your experience?

Tomorrow's another day!  Man, you must be fun to pal around with, lol!  ;)

Yeh well along with getting the DNA destroyed I'm going to be looking at making a formal complaint. One so I'm not targetted by these officers, and two because if anyone else makes a complaint then it starts to build up a pattern, because of what he did with the cuff though my wrist is now the size of my forearm, and multicoloured. I'm going to the doctors tomorrow to get it documented and have taken photographs.

V,
    You're the Clipart Photoshop GOD!

 

It must have been the mask, it looks "suspiciously" menacing.

good for you though, way to not give in to that BS.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

_Virtuoso_


Yeh well along with getting the DNA destroyed I'm going to be looking at making a formal complaint. One so I'm not targetted by these officers, and two because if anyone else makes a complaint then it starts to build up a pattern, because of what he did with the cuff though my wrist is now the size of my forearm, and multicoloured. I'm going to the doctors tomorrow to get it documented and have taken photographs.

Good for you, Virt!  I know most cops are good and serve us well and bravely, but there are those rogue guys who are in it for power only.  And you never found out what you did wrong in the store?  I don't know if the prints and DNA are a big deal.  I too have a problem with my identity being in the system, but I've had to surrender my fingerprints a number of times becuase I'm a teacher as well as a scout leader and school volunteer.  Just part of the sick world in which we live.

Cops are just like normal people, I call them biches hiding behind badges at times... Well some of them are..  But it's best just to cooperate with everything and if your late for work or people wonder where you are you just explain you were caught in a mix up.  You should have just gotten into the car it's not a big deal.  I have had a mix up before at a bar where my friend and I were accused of beating people up..  It's understandable though because months before that we had actually gotten into some quarels and some bars had to close their doors.. We probably matched our own description, but this time we had nothing to do with it.. and for all they know we just looked like someone who did do it..  Regardless the cops did act out but noticing the signs of their shaking hands and quivering voices they were just scared..  Some mid age men in a little less then horrible shape.  It makes their job easier if you just cooperate with them, most of the time they don't want to take the time to fill out a bunch of paper work unless they have something significant to charge you with. 


While I agree those cops were dick heads.. Next time just cooperate entirely and the cuffs will not go on you and you will just be taken back to the station for investigation, although I don't even think that is appart of their proceedure.

JMBS


Good for you, Virt!  I know most cops are good and serve us well and bravely, but there are those rogue guys who are in it for power only.  And you never found out what you did wrong in the store?  I don't know if the prints and DNA are a big deal.  I too have a problem with my identity being in the system, but I've had to surrender my fingerprints a number of times becuase I'm a teacher as well as a scout leader and school volunteer.  Just part of the sick world in which we live.

Well my processing officer was a cool guy. He was about 60 and retired, and wasn't really aware of what happened, but I explained to him and he seemed to understand. What was funny is I went into this ultra-violet light room which scans you and entering he said, "you've done this before right so you know what to do".
I said, "no I haven't".
"Oh you haven't been here before? where do you normally go?"
As if everyone who comes in to be processed has a regular station they visit frequently.
I said, "I don't usually go anywhere".
He was like, "You've never been arrested before? what the hell happened?"

Lol

But apart from that I had a nice long conversation with him about principles and the for's and against's of DNA processing etc. was a cool guy and I shook his hand after. If only every officer could be like that.

IBendBarbells


While I agree those cops were dick heads.. Next time just cooperate entirely and the cuffs will not go on you and you will just be taken back to the station for investigation, although I don't even think that is appart of their proceedure.

If I'm within my rights, and know I'm in the right, I'll never just comply simply because they have a badge and a uniform. It's people who just comply who let them think they can just do this kind of shxt.

V,
    You're the Clipart Photoshop GOD!

 

i thought that only happened  with a DWB....(driving while black) haha

YOU GOTTA EAT BIG, TO BE BIG!!

NASM certified trainer
NFPT certified trainer

Winter Bulk goal:245-250 by dec 31
Current weight: 235

i dunno what else to say except..

win.

some cops are real asshole's then again some are alright  ...........gain some weight an have bigger wrists 

Yeah Virt:  You're jacked up, no?  You should've schooled 'em both!  ;)

Not that I hate police, I know a lot of officers because I work at a bar. I just am not a fan of authority figures and people telling me what to do, especially when they do it with a sense of almighty devine holy power... (Its not nearly as bad as it once was, im growing up)

and its usually a stereotype but a lot of cops really are just guys who want power. There are good ones out there though.

regardless, Virt did absolutely nothing wrong and had every right to act the way he did. I know I would have done the same thing.

If I knew Virt in real life I would buy him a beer for that ****.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Nm0ney34


If I knew Virt in real life I would buy him a beer for that ****.

My paypal is.....

V,
    You're the Clipart Photoshop GOD!

 

_Virtuoso_

If I'm within my rights, and know I'm in the right, I'll never just comply simply because they have a badge and a uniform. It's people who just comply who let them think they can just do this kind of shxt.

Virt,
   I'm the type that would not want them to get away with that either.  But I would be real cooperative (except for saying anything I think they could use against me) and then later once I'm out of their custody is when I'd raise a stink.  Like you say it's your word against theirs.  Sometimes I think when they know you're going to cry foul they fabricate stuff along the way to build up their side.  I'd rather blindside them later.
   I, like N$, have a problem with authority.  Those guys have a lot of power and if they want to, and no one is looking, they can punish you with relative impunity to themselves.  I'm also, as I guess is the idea, very careful to obey the law and then some.
   Once I was pullled over for the simple reason that I was driving after midnight, on a well traveled road.  I worked the midnight shift at UPS and had just gotten off work and was driving home.  Of course another time I was frustrated because I was behind a county sheriff on the highway and he was driving slowly.  I passed him and had to speed up to make my off ramp.  He pulled me over, saw that my record was clean, and lectured me that it's not a good idea to speed by a patrol car.  I thought I was in the clear because he was out of his jurisdiction (highway patrol covers highways).  You live and you learn!  ;)

u should of just want postal ...........................jk

IBendBarbells


You should have just gotten into the car it's not a big deal.

 

I dont see why he should have.
Reading Virtuosos OP i can picture this clearly all happening its happened to me too many times,sometimes ive been clearly in the wrong drunk or whatever at a club but 1 particular instance they really took the piss out of me and the worst thing is they can and the pigs know it.

Virt im thinking they just had **** all to do and drove past and see a big guy in a hoodie thats enough for them to be complete assholes and make themselves feel big for the day,i woulda kicked them too if they touched me.
If i were you i'd be belling my solicitor asap,i hate the police and they get no respect from me ive seen too many abuse power be there good pigs or not.

Where in Manchester are you? ive been to Moss side before and dam is that place ghetto!

Just starting out but watch this space!

sorry to hear bout all that crap virt...them police can get away with whatever they want..its always better just to comply to what they want..i had a personal prob with one ;he ended up telling me he would plant dirty stuff in my car if i ever got pulled over by him late at night...i didnt drive after 11pm for along time.he ended up a detective on murder cases thank god...them dirty basterds

DONT BLAME THE PITBULL TRAIN THE PITBULL .BAN THE DEED NOT THE BREED.... OH YES MY GRAMR AND SPELNG SUCK AZZ...I KNOW.. THERE ARE NO BAD DOGS.JUST BAD OWNERS...

cops can do pretty much whatever they want to do. long time ago they raided my dad's pads. my place was on the same land as his. these motherfucers come in my place throw me on the ground an put a shotgun to the back of my head then took me to jail an put me in the drunk tank (a pink room) an it's was cold as fck in there for half the damn day then all n all they let me go as i had nothin on me smoked it all that night thou it ws a  terrible day

I know some cops are wankers, but I agree with IBB.  If you cooperate and, ahem, don't kick them... as long as you actually did nothing wrong in the shop, you'll be better off in the end.  I think you're extremely lucky to be getting off without so much as a slap on the wrist, even considering that they were dicks from the start.  After all, you did assault an officer.  Really stupid move IMO.  

snatchula




I know some cops are wankers, but I agree with IBB.  If you cooperate and, ahem, don't kick them... as long as you actually did nothing wrong in the shop, you'll be better off in the end.  I think you're extremely lucky to be getting off without so much as a slap on the wrist, even considering that they were dicks from the start.  After all, you did assault an officer.  Really stupid move IMO.  

That ^

Remember they DON'T KNOW YOU... they don't know who you are (god I just reamed some one out last week, and had to use that phrase)... They don't know what situation they are walking into.. the more insulted you were, the more aggressive they got (I know that is what I do)...

Say you did something... hey say they mistook you for someone else who was in the store (the one the shop keeps complained about), do you think when confronted that person would have... "Aye, you got me coppers, take me to the tank!"... No they would have more than likely acted just as you did... I am not saying they behaved properly... But, everyday they are confronted by their own mortality... to stay alive, they must remain "dominate and in charge of their situations", as soon as you give them a reason to think you are anything but some guy coming home with new soap... they are going to react in kind... otherwise they might not go home, ever again...

Here you would have gotten the absolute sh8t kicked out of you.... and you would have stayed in the round house for at least 24 hours...

Idk, Virt, you probably should've kept your cool even though they weren't professional at all.
But the kid in me who was bullied applauds you.

So, as the parent of three boys, do I teach my kids to turn the other cheek and walk away, to tell a grown up and have them intervene, or to fight back, when bullied?

JMBS


Idk, Virt, you probably should've kept your cool even though they weren't professional at all.
But the kid in me who was bullied applauds you.

So, as the parent of three boys, do I teach my kids to turn the other cheek and walk away, to tell a grown up and have them intervene, or to fight back, when bullied?

You teach them how to assess the situation, and then determine the most appropriate course of action. You know the world is not black and white... They need to respect AND question authority, constantly. And confront situations from a non - egotistical point of view... Be self conscious ; )

There is a time to fight back.... there is a time to understand the other parties perspective...

thehardway


That ^

Remember they DON'T KNOW YOU... they don't know who you are (god I just reamed some one out last week, and had to use that phrase)... They don't know what situation they are walking into.. the more insulted you were, the more aggressive they got (I know that is what I do)...

Say you did something... hey say they mistook you for someone else who was in the store (the one the shop keeps complained about), do you think when confronted that person would have... "Aye, you got me coppers, take me to the tank!"... No they would have more than likely acted just as you did... I am not saying they behaved properly... But, everyday they are confronted by their own mortality... to stay alive, they must remain "dominate and in charge of their situations", as soon as you give them a reason to think you are anything but some guy coming home with new soap... they are going to react in kind... otherwise they might not go home, ever again...

Here you would have gotten the absolute sh8t kicked out of you.... and you would have stayed in the round house for at least 24 hours...

What you said here is debatable, but only to one part of the incident.

Someone could have just got in the car and complied, giving details. However others wouldn't have.

At the same time some wouldn't have resisted with two officers wrestling you, but again some would have.

Here your post is relevant, do you comply simply because of their badge to make everyones life easier - even though law states that the procedure (or lack of) they followed means you are not obliged to? - not forgetting they are acting completely unlawfully.

Or do you say, I know my rights and intend to use them however difficult it might make the situation for myself - they are my rights afterall.


However, when it comes to having your head in a car with your legs out, your hands behind your back and then recieving a strike which is completely unecessary and definitely unjustified then I say you are completely within your right to act in a defencive manner and defend yourself as best you can - if you've made the judgment call and decided you are prepared for the concequences.

Here you're faced with two choices.
Do you take being striked by this person who clearly thinks they can abuse their given means of authority, and not have to worry about any charges.
Or do you say, 'I don't have to take this', and retaliate, knowing what you are getting yourself into.

There's really no right or wrong choice, it's what you are prepared to go through for what you feel is the right course of action.

However one thing I will say is that, all the people who do let clear misuse of power happen simply because they don't want to get into any more trouble are just going to play into these individuals hands in thinking they can do as they please. If everyone knew their rights, and nobody accepted anything other than proper use of authority and conduct, aswell as correctly followed procedure - making complaints whenever neseccary - then it would certainly make the police who do misuse powers, think twice.

V,
    You're the Clipart Photoshop GOD!

 

I posted under the assumption right or wrong, that they wanted you to sit down, so they could question you, with out worrying that you would run... if you would have just sat, the situation would not have escalated to the point that you were cuffed, struck, and detained ... and your rights were infringed upon...

I don't know the legal technicalities in England... Here, especially if they are investigating a complaint, if they want to talk to you, they have every right to, if they want you to sit down, you need to sit down. If you don't comply then you are giving them a reason to detain you... you are giving them a hard time, so you get a hard time back. It also generally reduces you credibility.

Yeah, I am not saying you need to suck up a violation against you, and if you were beat after detention, damn straight, file all the complaints you can... . I am saying that you had a knee jerk response to a situation, that cause the situation to escalate to the point that you were detained and struck...

Yea there are a lot of power hungry people in law enforcement, so many dicks... I am not questioning that... but being cooperative,... smooths situations out... for everybody...

Well you know, these guys got a call from the shop saying that there was someone suspicious.  It's their job to check up on that.  If you had just had a little talk with them and showed that you had done nothing wrong, you'd have been done with the whole situation in well under an hour.  I'll say it again, it was their job to check up on the situation.  And you met them with an attitude.  Fair enough, that's within your rights, but you must realize, that attitude itself is also suspicious.  You are making their job harder and making yourself look very likely guilty of something, and without any good reason.  You were just being prideful and spiteful.  Now, did they have to react to that with force?  Maybe not, but by kicking the officer, you just made things worse for yourself, again, needlessly.  This isn't a case of allowing or preventing the "misuse of power."  It should have been simply a case of proving that the shop clerks and/or manager were full of ****.  If you really have any beef, it should be with them, not the officers who were doing their job, however flawed they may have been in their approach.



If you're innocent, WHY RESIST?  This just doesn't make sense to me.

thehardway


I posted under the assumption right or wrong, that they wanted you to sit down, so they could question you, with out worrying that you would run... if you would have just sat, the situation would not have escalated to the point that you were cuffed, struck, and detained ... and your rights were infringed upon...

I don't know the legal technicalities in England... Here, especially if they are investigating a complaint, if they want to talk to you, they have every right to, if they want you to sit down, you need to sit down. If you don't comply then you are giving them a reason to detain you... you are giving them a hard time, so you get a hard time back. It also generally reduces you credibility.


Yeah, I am not saying you need to suck up a violation against you, and if you were beat after detention, damn straight, file all the complaints you can... . I am saying that you had a knee jerk response to a situation, that cause the situation to escalate to the point that you were detained and struck...

Yea there are a lot of power hungry people in law enforcement, so many dicks... I am not questioning that... but being cooperative,... smooths situations out... for everybody...

QFT.  

snatchula


Well you know, these guys got a call from the shop saying that there was someone suspicious.  It's their job to check up on that.  If you had just had a little talk with them and showed that you had done nothing wrong, you'd have been done with the whole situation in well under an hour.  I'll say it again, it was their job to check up on the situation.  And you met them with an attitude.  Fair enough, that's within your rights, but you must realize, that attitude itself is also suspicious.  You are making their job harder and making yourself look very likely guilty of something, and without any good reason.  You were just being prideful and spiteful.  Now, did they have to react to that with force?  Maybe not, but by kicking the officer, you just made things worse for yourself, again, needlessly.  This isn't a case of allowing or preventing the "misuse of power."  It should have been simply a case of proving that the shop clerks and/or manager were full of ****.  If you really have any beef, it should be with them, not the officers who were doing their job, however flawed they may have been in their approach.



If you're innocent, WHY RESIST?  This just doesn't make sense to me.

It isn't up to me to make the situation easier for everyone by giving up my rights though. I shouldn't feel obliged to do that. It's their job to follow the correct procedure, and if they had then it would have gone smoother. If they had got out the car and said which shop, asked what I was doing there, where I was going and if I had the item I had bought on me - like they are supposed to - then I would have happily answered those questions. That is how they are supposed to do their job. You do not get out of the car and say 'sit in the back and give us your details', before anything else. If you don't do your job the way you are supposed to then you can't blame a citizen by keeping within their rights. If you don't want someone to fight back, then do your job properly.

V,
    You're the Clipart Photoshop GOD!

 

"They say "you've been seen acting suspiciously in town, so would you like to come and sit in the back of the car and we'll take your details please."
I ask, "well what do you mean by suspciously?"
"Sit in the back of the car and we'll discuss it further"
"I'm not sitting in the back until you tell me what the problem is"
"Give us your details and sit in the back or we'll have to arrest you"
"You haven't told me whether I'm accused of anything and until you do so I should not have to sit in the back of your car or give you my details"

sorry virt but it sounds like they acted according to correct procedure.  I really dont blame them for having an attitude because simple stops like are what causes the death of most cops (at least in the USA).  Assuming that UK and US rights are similar i dont think your rights were violated at all.   To tell you the truth i would have tased you      (joking about the taser..kinda) . The situation probably would had been nothing if you complied.  You should change the thread title to lawfully detained but i dont know the law lol.

ranger20

To tell you the truth i would have tased you     

HEEELLLLLLLLLLP

HELP!!

HEEELLLPP!!!

DONT TAZE ME BRO!

AUHAUGBIKBSOLIKNAPOMSPJBUIKAB LKAM:MSOPW

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

I have had my problems years ago but whatever you do stays with you for life, even a caution stays on record for 100 years on the police national computer in the UK. If an employer wants a standard disclosure like for example if you are working in healthcare or with children , if you've spent the night in a cell for drunk and disorderly or something all that **** comes up in cold black and white on paper. Any petty mistakes you make even as a juvenile can affect the rest of your life.

''If one is after quick results one never learns an art.''

Erich Fromm