The perfect supplements before/following exercise!!!

Just a quick question.  I am currently taking nitro T3 and it says to take on an empty stomach before going to bed.  But i usually take a protein shake before hitting the sack.  I was just wondering if this would have any effect on the performance of the T3?  If someone could give me some info it would be great.
Ht: 6'
wt: 216lbs
B/F: 6%
Email: krisaustin89@hotmail.com

Hey Bigg3r;
 
A good read. I am a firm believer in BCAA’s in that Leucine, part of the chain does indeed help in further driving muscle protein systhesis and help in the recovery process. I do take BCAA’s before and after my w/o’s and on OFF days but, noted that under Conclusions it is stated that:

 
“-BCAAs do not increase protein synthesis, but decrease protein breakdown.”
 
However, under The Role of Leucine and A better net protein balance, there seems to be a contradiction regarding the above conclusion.
 
The Role of Leucine
)Leucine appears to exert a synergistic role with insulin as a regulatory factor in the insulin/ phosphatidylinositol-3 kinase (PI3-K) signal cascade. Insulin serves to activate the signal pathway, while leucine is essential to enhance or amplify the signal for protein synthesis at the level of peptide initiation (E1).
2)If only a single stimulatory amino acid is given (e.g. leucine), after the initial anabolic stimulation, all of the other amino acids show a fall in their concentration, and leucine oxidation rises, presumably because complete proteins can no longer be made (P2).
3)Leucine is suggested to be able by itself to stimulate MPS in animal and human muscle. These results are consistent with such a role for leucine; however, its behaviour was indistinguishable from that of the other branched-chain amino acids, and indeed of the EAAs as a whole (P2).
 
A better net protein balance
-Leucine+carbs+protein following 45 min of resistance exercise: Mixed muscle FSR, measured over a 6-h period of post exercise recovery, was significantly greater in the CHO+PRO+Leu trial compared with the CHO trial (0.095 +/- 0.006 vs. 0.061 +/- 0.008%/h, respectively, P < 0.05), with intermediate values observed in the CHO+PRO trial (0.0820 +/- 0.0104%/h) (K31).
-Administration of an amino acid-glucose mix increases phenylalanine net balance (-27 ± 8 to 64 ± 17). Muscle protein synthesis increased (61 ± 17 to 133 ± 30 (P = 0.005). Protein breakdown decreased (P = 0.012) and leg glucose uptake increased (P = 0.0258) with the mixture (K23).
 
Peace

I understand that a fundamental characteristic of any scientific hypothesis is that it must remain open to repudiation. But can someone explain to me how two groups of researchers with exactly the same data and observations can draw such categorically opposite conclusions from them?

All of the research I've read on glutamine supplementation so far confirms the conclusions listed here regarding intracellular glutamine synthesis and uptake. I don't see many researchers claiming that orally-administered glutamine elevates protein synthesis, nor do any claim that a significant deficiency exists in the first place. However, one thing all the researchers seem to agree on is that there IS a post-exercise increase in plasma glutamine levels -except this research team.

Intracellular glutamine concentration may not be compromised when plasma levels are decreased postexercise.

None of the other research I've read suggests that it is. These guys are looking for a post-exercise plasma concentration decrease, where everyone else is looking for an increase.

This surfaces again in the following statement:

Glutamine supplementation abolished the postexercise decline in plasma glutamine concentration but had no effect on lymphocyte trafficking, NK and lymphokine-activated killer cell activities, T cell proliferation, catecholamines, growth hormone, insulin, or glucose

Indicating that the focus of the study was whether or not exercise (or more specifically, catabolism) depletes plasma glutamine levels, instead of elevating them.

Everything I've read previously regarding glutamine indicates that plasma levels increase post exercise, and that the increase is what triggers GH release. This paper seems bent on attacking glutamine supplementation solely on the merits of cellular uptake -a function that (to my knowledge) no one else deemed relevant in the first place.

The confusion doesn't stop there. Further on, we read:

Glutamine supplementation may not even effect plasma and mucosal glutamine concentrations at all. There are concflicting results and the reason for this has not been clarified yet.

...then

Glutamine orally is successful in elevating plasma glutamine at the peak concentration by 46%, which suggests that a substantial proportion of the oral load escaped utilization by the gut mucosal cells and uptake by the liver and kidneys.

WHICH IS IT??

Yes, that's me in my avatar, and NO, I don't look like that today. That was taken back in Jan '07, and I lost most of that progress when I slacked off last year. I'm on my way back, tho, and I'm using that photo for inspiration.

ORIGINAL: Bigg3r
-The post workout shake increases amino acid uptake even more when consumed before exercise.

 
it took me 5 minutes to get buy this

ORIGINAL: Bigg3r
WHEN CUTTING THIS SCHEDULE WILL PREVENT MUSCLE LOSS:

30 min. before exercise
0.4 g/kg whey

Directly before exercise
5 g BCAAs or 15 g EAAs (When you use EAAs you can leave the pre-exercise whey away)

During workout
0.4 g/kg carbs. You consume this spread over the entire exercise period.

Immediately following exercise
5 g BCAAs or 15 g EAAs

(When you can not use BCAAs/Essential Amino Acids, take 0.4 g/kg whey 30 min. pre workout, and 0.2 g/kg whey. During exercise you use the same amount of carbs.



FOR CARDIO:
For cardio you take 5 g BCAAs directly before + 5 g BCAAs directly following exercise. Or you take 0.2 g/kg whey 30 min. before + 0.2 g/kg whey directly following exercise.

For cutting/fat loss...
 
What do you do if your cardio is right after weight lifting???
 
Thanks!

Total cardio plus lifting time should not exceed 75 minutes..total lifting time should not exceed 45 minutes.
 
The before exercise info is fine.
 
Do not take anything but water between lifting and cardio...
 
Then:
5 g BCAAs directly following cardio or 0.1 g/lb whey directly following cardio.
 
 

During workout
0.4 g/kg carbs. You consume this spread over the entire exercise period.

A note about that...
IF you are cutting then this will protect muscle, but may inhibit your cutting...so test it on yourself.

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

Total cardio plus lifting time should not exceed 75 minutes..total lifting time should not exceed 45 minutes.

The before exercise info is fine.

Do not take anything but water between lifting and cardio...

Then:
5 g BCAAs directly following cardio or 0.1 g/lb whey directly following cardio.

During workout
0.4 g/kg carbs. You consume this spread over the entire exercise period.

A note about that...
IF you are cutting then this will protect muscle, but may inhibit your cutting...so test it on yourself.

Hey, thanks for replying!...
 
Is there a reason for not exceeding 75 mins... I do 45 mins of weightlifting (not including warming up and stretching) and another 45 mins of walking fast on the treadmill... Should I drop the cardio down to 30 mins?
 
Why not drink whey after weightlifting but only after cardio?
 
In your opinion for a 250 lb male what should be the adequate amount of whey protein to intake BEFORE (also how long before) weightlifting and AFTER cardio (also how long after) as you recommended?
 
Thanks!... I sincerely appreciate it!!! :)

I assume the discussion is for cutting.
 

Is there a reason for not exceeding 75 mins

You start the muscle wasting cycle...however if you are preparing for a competition, then you know that you will lose some muscle to get to the level of leanness you need to compete...in that case, exceeding this is needed to cut for a competition and is an exception.
 
 
The pre workout recommendations are fine...
 

Why not drink whey after weightlifting but only after cardio?

 
It says:
30 min. before exercise
0.2 g/lb whey

Directly before exercise
5 g BCAAs or 15 g EAAs (When you use EAAs you can leave the
pre-exercise whey away)

When exercise is not immediatly followed by cardio:
Immediately following exercise
5 g BCAAs or 15 g EAAs

(When you can not use BCAAs/Essential Amino Acids, take 0.1 g/lb whey post workout.)
 
That would mean
250 x .2 = 50 grams pure whey protein pre workout
250 x .1 = 25 grams pure whey protein post exercise
 
I use the BCAA myself...since that is what the body is going to extract from the protein and BCAA gets into the system faster.
 
Pre w/o BCAA acts to spare muscle...
 
I follow this with my normal meal about 45-60 minutes later
 

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What's a good EAA???

Thanks! :)

ORIGINAL: danmirage

I assume the discussion is for cutting.

Is there a reason for not exceeding 75 mins

You start the muscle wasting cycle...however if you are preparing for a competition, then you know that you will lose some muscle to get to the level of leanness you need to compete...in that case, exceeding this is needed to cut for a competition and is an exception.


The pre workout recommendations are fine...

Why not drink whey after weightlifting but only after cardio?

It says:
30 min. before exercise
0.2 g/lb whey

Directly before exercise
5 g BCAAs or 15 g EAAs (When you use EAAs you can leave the
pre-exercise whey away)

When exercise is not immediatly followed by cardio:
Immediately following exercise
5 g BCAAs or 15 g EAAs

(When you can not use BCAAs/Essential Amino Acids, take 0.1 g/lb whey post workout.)

That would mean
250 x .2 = 50 grams pure whey protein pre workout
250 x .1 = 25 grams pure whey protein post exercise

I use the BCAA myself...since that is what the body is going to extract from the protein and BCAA gets into the system faster.

Pre w/o BCAA acts to spare muscle...

I follow this with my normal meal about 45-60 minutes later

Why not drink the whey right before the weightlifting instead of 30 mins before??? (Absorbtion?)

75 grams of protein within less than a 2 hour period!!! That seems like a lot!!! That’s about 1/3rd of my total protein consumption for the whole day! (~250gs) Should I up my protein intake to 300-350grams???

By intaking 50 grams of protein before the weightlifting will I still lose fat??? Or will the protein get used up as fuel instead of body fat???

I stop eating about 3 hours before I go to sleep... Do you recommend taking a whey protein shake before I go to sleep??? (30 mins before or so??? How many grams???) Or should I just stick with my last meal which is 3-4 hrs before I go to sleep!?

Thanks! :)

Can anyone tell me what kind of carbs I should be taking during my workout?  I am currently cutting and taking protein shakes before and after workouts, with only water during.

Age: 33
Height: 5'7"
Starting weight/body fat- 202lbs/30+%???

Current weight/body fat- 175lbs/24%

Can anyone tell me what kind of carbs I should be taking during my workout?

If You are cutting for competition, so you SHOULD NOT use carbs this way.  Otherwise a simple carb drink is fine.
 

Why not drink the whey right before the weightlifting instead of 30 mins before??? (Absorbtion?)

Correct.  Availability.
 

By intaking 50 grams of protein before the weightlifting will I still lose fat??? Or will the protein get used up as fuel instead of body fat???

There is only 1 energy source for anaerobic movement (lifting)  that is glucose.  Your body has 2 sources for glucose...glycogen stored in muscles and the liver OR protein either in the bloodstream or in muscle.
 
The protein is to spare muscle.
 
Aerobic movement has 2 options for energy...glucose or fat.  After lifting, the glucose is mostly used up.  If you keep the post lifting cardio intensity moderate...you are primarily tapping the fat source...assuming your body is glucagon dominant.
 

I stop eating about 3 hours before I go to sleep... Do you recommend taking a whey protein shake before I go to sleep??? (30 mins before or so??? How many grams???) Or should I just stick with my last meal which is 3-4 hrs before I go to sleep!?

Have a meal every 3 hours that you are awake.  Unprocessed food is thermic, meaning it increases your metabolism...the shake will not.  The protein shake will only spare muscle and could cause a rise in GH while you sleep (a good thing)....both of which a whole food protein and veggie meal would accomplish in addition to the thermic effect.

75 grams of protein within less than a 2 hour period!!!

That 2 hour period is the time in which your body uses energy at a very high rate, this is to protect muscle from being broken down to be used for that energy...also if you train excessively and cause cortisol release...you lock in fat and tear down muscle for energy...instead just use the protein.  BCAA is also effective.
 
BCAA Powder <---the one I use...I prefer the powder over the capsule because of the faster absorption and the cost.
 

That seems like a lot!!! That’s about 1/3rd of my total protein consumption for the whole day! (~250gs) Should I up my protein intake to 300-350grams???

Assuming you are cutting..meaning you are starting to manipulate nutrient intake...your protein intake should be going up anyway...

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To clarify…

Correct.  Availability.

So you recommend taking the whey ~30 min before and not immediately before???

Have a meal every 3 hours that you are awake.  Unprocessed food is thermic, meaning it increases your metabolism...the shake will not.  The protein shake will only spare muscle and could cause a rise in GH while you sleep (a good thing)....both of which a whole food protein and veggie meal would accomplish in addition to the thermic effect.

So how long before i go to sleep should I ingest my last meal? (Right before or a couple hours before?) What should the last meal consist of? (Protein, Starchy Carbs, Fibrous Carbs, Fats???)

Assuming you are cutting..meaning you are starting to manipulate nutrient intake...your protein intake should be going up anyway...

How much should it go up considering I only eat two starchy carbs in a meal a day - half a cup of old fashion oatmeal (not the quick kind which has a slightly higher GI=66) for the first and second meals? (I also carb up every 3-4 days…) The next four meals only consist of Fibrous Carbs, protein and fat and no starchy carbs!

Thanks in advance for your advice… Once again it is highly appreciated! :)

So you recommend taking the whey ~30 min before and not immediately before???

 
That is correct, and I recommend you drink water for the 30 minutes leading in.
 

So how long before i go to sleep should I ingest my last meal?

Really, it can be just before you retire if tyhat is how the timing works.  Some people need an hour after eating before they can get to sleep...Don't worry about how long between the meal and bed...think about eating every 3 hours you are awake.
 
If you ate at 7 and it is 10 and you are still up...EAT.
 
If you are cutting I recommend a whole food protein and veggie meal with a whole food carb if you are eating carbs, ...
 
If you are in the final cut, pre-contest/shoot/whatever...then naturally only eat from the foods you are including in your diet at the time.

The next four meals only consist of Fibrous Carbs, protein and fat and no starchy carbs!

 
Oh..that is your answer!
 
Sounds like you are doing ok on the meals!

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ORIGINAL: danmirage
If you are cutting I recommend a whole food protein

Do you also recommend whole food protein for the (30 min before) pre-workout & (immediately after) post-workout meals???... Or would a whey protein shake be better and then the rest of the day whole food protein???