The Glutamine Analysis

ORIGINAL: Gator


It also helps to regenerate the lining of the intestine to enhance absorption capabilities. Thats a big plus!

Without sounding too silly here, just chewing your food for a bit longer can help in this regard...And it' s free.

But yeah, the digestive system is efficient as hell in anyone who doesn' t have a disorder. Glutamine is hellishly expensive for this sole reason.

It can elevate Growth hormone secretion over 500%...no explanation needed

Means very little i' m afraid. Natural or induced hGH release has such a small, almost insiginificant effect (unless dealing with stubborn fat maybe) compared to injecting the stuff.

When combined with other proteins it increases the rate of protein synthesis.

Only proven intravenously. No studies show this orally.

Humongous difference.

The theory behind this is : whey is mainly made of BCAAs which are very easily oxidized and are the main contributers to glutamine formation. When glutamine is supplied in large amounts, it is used rather than the BCAAs in your protein...which allow more to enter muscle and do its thing.

Depends what you' re using the BCAA' s for (if using them independantly). If Using whey, eat carbs with it - problem solved. In the presence of carbs/insulin, protein is spared.


Apologies for breaking your post up like that. I don' t particularly like doing that, but it' s the easiest thing to do.

ORIGINAL: mda1125

I' ve heard the immune system strength benefit but as with the dosage comment, it very well could be overrated as you say unless I can find something more concrete then " I heard it from a little bird."

The immune system thing comes mainly on the basis that glutamine causes rise in gluthione (or however you spell it) levels, which basically serves as an anti-oxidant.

Of course, just regular exercise causes your body to release more of this anyway to combat the release of free-radicals that exercise induces.

I' m looking back on the book of posts.. and so far.. I think we can summarize the following:

Glutamine Claims:

• Claims Boosts immune system function
  
• Maintains muscle mass
  
• Prevents muscle catabolism (breakdown)
  
• Enhances glycogen storage
  
• Aids recovery from exercise
  

Note: This is just a checkpoint of what' s been debated so far.

Marc C. David
Support DB! Buy your supplements at Supplements101.com

ORIGINAL: mda1125

I' m looking back on the book of posts.. and so far.. I think we can summarize the following:

Glutamine Claims:

• Claims Boosts immune system function
  
• Maintains muscle mass
  
• Prevents muscle catabolism (breakdown)
  
• Enhances glycogen storage
  
• Aids recovery from exercise
  

Note: This is just a checkpoint of what' s been debated so far.

You' ve also got to theorize from an evolutionary point of view here - If the body is going to catobolise muscle tissue to keep the brain and other more vital organs alive and functioning, why would taking a non-essential amino acid stop your body doing so? Other tissues need essential amino acids also, so why would taking one non-essential amino alone do this?

Also, the drop in plasma glutamine levels from exercise only lasts about 2 hours at the most, cause the body works quickly to re-establish homeostasis. Of course, marathon running/extreme burns are a much more severe case of stress than a 40-60 minute weight training session, so don' t apply in this regard. This is one of the main reasons i mentioned that the immune system thing may be overhyped a bit.

why would taking a non-essential amino acid stop your body doing so? Other tissues need essential amino acids also, so why would taking one non-essential amino alone do this?

Glutamine is the most abundant amino acid in the body – comprising approximately half of the free amino acids in the blood and muscle. As a non-essential amino acid, glutamine can be produced in the body by conversion from another amino acid - glutamic acid (primarily by the skeletal muscle and liver. Glutamine’s main functions in the body include serving as a precursor in the synthesis of other amino acids and glucose for energy. Cells of the immune system, the small intestine and the kidney are the major consumers of glutamine.

I would agree.. not an essential amino acid.

I' m finding a lot of research has been done on severe burn victims and other people with extreme health issues.. but for the average BB..

Let' s see what I can find on that..

Marc C. David
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Summary of the Theory Behind Glutamine:

Intense exercise training results in a well-described drop in plasma glutamine levels. Chronically low glutamine levels have been implicated as a possible contributing factor in athletic overtraining syndrome as well as the transient immunosuppression and increased risk of infections that typically affects competitive athletes during intense training and competition. Under conditions of metabolic stress, the body’s need for glutamine may exceed its ability to produce adequate levels – meaning that a dietary source is required to prevent catabolism of skeletal muscle – the primary source of stored glutamine in the body.

-Source SupplementWatch.com

Marc C. David
Support DB! Buy your supplements at Supplements101.com

Scientific Support

A significant body of scientific literature exists to support the beneficial effects of glutamine supplementation in maintaining muscle mass and immune system function in critically ill patients and in those recovering from extensive burns and major surgery. When plasma glutamine levels fall, skeletal muscles may enter a state of catabolism in which muscle protein is degraded to provide free glutamine for the rest of the body. Since skeletal muscle is the major source of glutamine (other than the diet), prolonged deficits in plasma glutamine can lead to a significant loss of skeletal muscle protein and muscle mass. Very little specific work has been done, however, to address the primary target population for the majority of commercially produced glutamine supplements on the market today – competitive athletes

In recent years, at least a half-dozen studies have been conducted on glutamine supplementation in athletes and a strong basis exists for the efficacy of glutamine supplements in athletic populations. For example, glutamine’s role in immune system support has been shown to prevent infections following intense bouts of physical activity – which tend to reduce plasma glutamine levels. Glutamine supplements have also been shown to play a role in counteracting the catabolic (muscle-wasting) effects of stress hormones such as cortisol, which are typically elevated by strenuous exercise. The function of glutamine in stimulating glycogen synthase, the enzyme which controls the synthesis and storage of glycogen fuel storage in muscles and liver, may provide a mechanism by which glutamine supplements promote enhanced fuel stores. Glutamine supplements cause a rapid rise in cellular glutamine levels and glutamine stores in muscle. Glutamine is also thought to increase cell volume, where it may stimulate the activity of enzymes in the liver and muscles involved in glycogen storage as well as those involved in anabolic activities such as protein synthesis. Glutamine supplements have also been hypothesized to increase levels of growth hormone, which may be expected to help stimulate protein synthesis and encourage gains in muscle mass and strength, but reliable evidence for this effect of glutamine supplements has not been demonstrated by clinical studies.

-Source SupplementWatch.com

Marc C. David
Support DB! Buy your supplements at Supplements101.com

Yes, " prolonged" decreases is plasma glutamine can cause problems - a situation that will probably only occur during lack of food and elevated activity.

Like i said earlier, exercise like lifting weights only decreases plasma glutamine for a couple of hours before re-balancing. Chances are that the average bodybuilder/weight lifter eats after training (and several other times of day), usually instigating insulin release from carbohydrate consumption, which is anti-catabolic. Much more so than a solitary amino acid.

Taking glutamine is only really " required" when you' re deficient - a scenario quite rare for bodybuilders eating so frequently and eating a diet so high in protein.

And about cortisol control - vitamin is just as, if not more effective and a much cheaper source (1-3g about 2 hours before training).

Besides, cortisol from training is semi-beneficial in regards for hypetrophy. After training, for a few hours, you may very well be in a catabolic state (negative protein balance), which is less of an issue with post workout carbs and protein (and electrolytes ideally i suppose). But overall there is a net gain in muscle (providing sensible training and adequate diet).

And like i said earlier, i have two abstracts of studies showing that for weightlifters, glutamine does nothing.

Can you post those abstracts as attachments? Word doc or PDF or something? Just in case anybody really wants to tackle what we' ve done here..

Marc C. David
Support DB! Buy your supplements at Supplements101.com

Now here' s a coincidence..

AST just released their newsletter.. usually I skim/delete.. but I read the titles..

Something else to add to this debate..

Glutamine Supplementation - The Latest Research by Paul Cribb, AST Director of Research

Note: Many of the things mentioned in this article, Robboe, and Twin Peak, have addressed in previoius posts. It' s only meant as yet another source of similar information.

Marc C. David
Support DB! Buy your supplements at Supplements101.com

Remember that AST are selling products and so a lot of these " articles" published by them (and other companies) usually have interpreted the studies in a way they see fit.

For example, the creatine articles all claim is adds LBM and promotes fat loss.

How?

Well, it causes intracellular water retention - the rest is " clever" mathematics.

Take a 200lb guy with 10% bodyfat and load him on creatine.

Say he gains 5lbs of water weight - the caliper skin folds may still be exactly the same, but because he' s up 5lbs as well, he is now 205lbs @ 9.5% bodyfat. Therefore, it can be claimed that the creatine has caused a gain in LBM and a loss in fat.

And that' s kinda the way most companies do this sort of thing - EAS (" HMB feels like deca" ) and MuscleTech (" I lost 40lbs of fat and gained 20lbs of muscle in only 3 weeks using NitroTech and Celltech" ) being the worst.

I also dislike AST, because Paul Cribb and Paul Delia both try to come off as being the " good guys" in a shady industry, when in reality, they' re no better than any of the other bastards in the field.

There are very few " good guys" in supplement retail.

ORIGINAL: mda1125

Can you post those abstracts as attachments? Word doc or PDF or something? Just in case anybody really wants to tackle what we' ve done here..

Eventually yeah - i have one abstract and am trying to locate the full study if i can get it for free. I' ve lost the other, but will find it.

Remember that AST are selling products and so a lot of these " articles" published by them (and other companies) usually have interpreted the studies in a way they see fit.

Absolutely. I think most of the info in this thread has been debated minus the Supplement company studies. While the AST thing was still valid and a good read, I think Robboe is right.

Too much bias from that company. His analogy of clever mathematics was on the money.

I' ll be able to do quite a lot better than just the two, now, it would seem.

Not yet though. Over the weekend.