Texas's Method Routine

The only difference between pull-ups / chin-ups is that the biceps work more when the grip is reversed from pronated (pull-up) to supinated (chin-up).

Contrary to popular belief, the chin-up is not bicep dominant, the lat is still the agonist / concentric mover and biceps are still the synergists. Biceps just work slightly harder due to a more efficient type of elbow flexsion due to the supinated grip positioning of the wrists, as mentioned.

The only thing I'd recommend changing is making the squats your first movement on the first day, the hormonal benefits granted to the later exercises is phenomenal.

Personal Trainer/Nutrition Consultant

Well I tried putting it on my 2nd exercise, and it pretty much screwed me over, lol. I felt fatigued as. If put it 1st, then I would be weak as for my other exercises.

Hopefully my triceps won't get too much smaller from removing dips.

Well when I do chinups, I felt it mainly in my lats. When I do pullups, I feel kinda like I'm pulling with my shoulders.

vdk_au


Well I tried putting it on my 2nd exercise, and it pretty much screwed me over, lol. I felt fatigued as. If put it 1st, then I would be weak as for my other exercises.

Not entirely. Squats won't exhaust your chest, biceps, and back. The only muscle group really utilized during the squat in the later movements is the back which is stimulated significantly during the row. The row / squat works the back in different types of contractions. The back is worked more isometrically during a squat while it's work concentrically, eccentrically and isometrically during the row.

Same thing with the posterior chain, it's stimulated isometrically during a row and eccentrically during a squat. So the contractions would be different. Rowing after squatting would not affect the row.

As far as benches go, I always bench better after squatting (probably due to the hormonal benefits).

Your ATP levels will have time to replenish during a bench press and your back will be fine during rows. All together this set-up.

Your set up, IMO, looks pretty good.

Volume Day
1. Squat: 5 X 5
2. Bench Press: 5x5
3. BB Row: 5x5
4. Bicep Curls: 3x10

Looks excellent.

vdk_au


Well when I do chinups, I felt it mainly in my lats. When I do pullups, I feel kinda like I'm pulling with my shoulders.

Most people "feel the stimulation" more in their biceps during a chin-up and mistake it for being a bicep dominant exercise. Truth is, you cannot curl your bodyweight, the biceps are too small of a muscle group to withstand that type of external resistance. The lats are still the agonists.

Pull-ups would work the posterior deltoids more efficiently due to the positioning of the wrists / hands. The pronated grip tends to target the shoulders a bit more.

Personal Trainer/Nutrition Consultant

Wow, you answer my questions pretty quickly! Thanks :)

It's not that the squats fatigues my other muscles, but more the fact that it drains the life out of me, and I don't have much energy left for any other exercises. I think the main reason is my body is not conditioned for it. I never did 3x5 for long, like a few weeks (before that I never did squats) and then jumped straight to 5x5.

However the one thing I notice is my biceps are sore as after squats. Not sure if it's because it's been stretched in a prolong period during the squats which makes them sore.

vdk_au


Wow, you answer my questions pretty quickly! Thanks :)

It's not that the squats fatigues my other muscles, but more the fact that it drains the life out of me, and I don't have much energy left for any other exercises. I think the main reason is my body is not conditioned for it. I never did 3x5 for long, like a few weeks (before that I never did squats) and then jumped straight to 5x5.

However the one thing I notice is my biceps are sore as after squats. Not sure if it's because it's been stretched in a prolong period during the squats which makes them sore.

I would say to switch to 3 X 5, but the Texas Method demands 5 X 5 on the volume day, which would be counterproductive on my own part.

Squatting tends to do that to people . If you feel the squats before benches would result in a less effective workout, then maybe you should keep the squats after benches and rows, however - IMPO, I believe you'd be better off with squats first and reaping the hormonal benefits. Rest as long as you need between sets. Sometimes I rest up to five minutes, but sometimes it's just what you have to do in order to have a productive workout.

Listen to your body though, that's the most important thing. If it tells you to squat after the other movements, then squat after the other movements. Increasing your tolerance of squatting demand comes from squatting though.

Bicep soreness doesn't mean much. I get a pretty significant amount of soreness from bench pressing which involves elbow extension therefore requiring triceps contraction as a synergist which is the opposite motion of forced biceps contraction (flexsion at the elbow).

Personal Trainer/Nutrition Consultant

No problem :)

I tend to rest 5 minutes for everything, lol. That's why my workouts last like 2.5-3 hours. But now it should finish quicker since I'm only doing a few exercises for each workout.

I tend to rest five minutes between everything too, even isolations.

But good luck with your set up and let us know how your progress goes!

Personal Trainer/Nutrition Consultant

I remembered NMoney mentioning, but I didn't take much notice of it, but I was reading on StrengthMill with traditionally the Texas method focuses on bench pressing. So oh pressing is done only on wednesdays. I think I'll be doing 3x5 pressing on wednesday only. This was I can concentrate on increasing my bench press.

Hey, sorry I didnt reply sooner, been a little pre-occupied to log in and browse the forums.

Yeah the OH press is done on wednesdays as a 5x5. deadlifts are ramping 1x5 and your squats are light. Therefore your doing 1 volume, 1 intensity and 1 light... I suppose you can call that recovery (which it is)

I would try to stick to 5x5 for volume as much as you can because thats what the program calls for. If you feel like going 3x5, then perhaps its whats best for your body but if your not noticing gains (you should) but in that event you can add more volume.

as for your the routine you posted

Volume Day
1. Bench Press / OH Press: 5x5
2. Rows: 5x5
3. Squats: 5x5
4. Bicep Curls: 3x10

Recovery Day - Going to remove squats as I still get fatigued from previous workout
1. Bench Press / OH Press: 3x3
2. Deadlift: 5x5 (Ramping)
3. Calf Raises: 3x10-15

Intensity Day
1. Bench Press / OH Press (1 or 2 or 3 rep maxes)
2. Squat: 1x5
3. Chinups: 3 x 5

Just want to throw this out there, your going to be fatigued. Whatever workout if your making it work your going to feel fatigued. Its your recovery that will make the difference. Sleep, stress and especially diet. Especially volume phases fatigue is going to be more prominent...so its not a bad thing, when you start to plateau or even regress in weight you could have previously done that when you should make changes or think about how long you have been training perhaps its time to deload for a week or 2...

lol, off on a tangent there...

Volume day looks good.

Recovery looks good now that your going to throw in OH press, I would bump it to 5x5 especially since your not doing light squats anymore...but if you really feel like you need to remove them, go for it. deadlifts are 1x5 ramping, not 5x5...but im sure you know that, just wrote it wrong.

Intensity looks a little light, squat and bench are good. its fine if you want to play with the reps (3rm,2rm,1rm) but I would start with 1x5 first until you plateau then move to 1x4 or 1x3 and continue going, etc... continue pushing progression. Chin ups are fine, as an assistance. you need to throw rows into intensity day as well, or dare I say jump into some power cleans if you feel comfortable.

A good rule of thumb is your intensity day is exactly the same as your volume day, but with sets/reps changed. Same exercises. So your 5x5's become 1x5's ramping. Squat/bench/rows.

I also wanted to discuss your 2.5-3 hours in the gym, thats way too much time in the gym. While I believe in taking as long as you need to recover for the next set. The body really doesnt benefit from any longer then 2 minutes of rest for strength oriented sets.

While I dont know exactly on how I feel about the 45-1 hour in the gym before you start to hit negative repercussions after 1 hour... I do think it holds some merit and you shouldnt be taking that long. With this routine, I wouldnt expect myself or anyone else to spend more then 1 hour in the gym, excluding cardio.

I have a feeling your lengthy gym sessions are a culprit in your "fatigue"

And as for squats, it is my personal opinion to do the most taxing exercise on the body first. In your case I would recommend doing squats first on Monday/friday and deadlifts first on wednesday. However, some do believe in going with your weakest first...i personally believe in most taxing first. again, if you feel you get a better response and can still progress fine with squats last then go for it.

in order of progression on exercises I would suggest you put the most emphasis on

squats/ deads (most important, hormone release, most mechanical/total body etc..)
Cleans
OH press
Bench/rows

Just my opinion :P

vdk_au


I remembered NMoney mentioning, but I didn't take much notice of it, but I was reading on StrengthMill with traditionally the Texas method focuses on bench pressing. So oh pressing is done only on wednesdays. I think I'll be doing 3x5 pressing on wednesday only. This was I can concentrate on increasing my bench press.

6'3"  @215

Squat 1x20x275

press: 190, Deadlift: 450, Bench:285, P.clean: 235, Squat: 385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Thanks for the length reply :)

I would just like to clarify a few things if that's ok with you. :)

1. You recommend 5x5 OH Press on Wednesday's instead of 3x5?
2.  Would adding cable rows on friday instead of rows be ok? Today was my intensity day and I have to admit that it felt a bit too easy.
3. You recommend to stick to 1x5 for intensity day for bench. It would probably be only like 1-2kg more than intensity day?
I think it could be to do with my cardiovasuclar in relation to my long rests, but I simply find that I need a much longer rest in order for me to be able to lift at a higher intensity. But my workouts are lasting much less since I changed it around.
 
I'm removing squats on Wednesday simply the fact that I think my body is not conditioned to squats yet. Today I did 1x5 for squats, and I felt tired as afterwards.


BTW, something quite dangerous happened today. When I racked the bar off the rack (low bar squat position), the bar started to slip off my back. I quickly tried to rack it back up, but I only had time to do one side of the bar, as the other side had started to slip too low, so I had to throw the bar off my back onto the safety racks. I gotta get my stupid shoulder flexibility better. It seems that no matter what I do, the flexibility seems not to improve much.

Thanks again :)

vdk_au


Thanks for the length reply :)

I would just like to clarify a few things if that's ok with you. :)

1. You recommend 5x5 OH Press on Wednesday's instead of 3x5?

Yeah, you still want to target your shoulders and get some volume in. OH press does this perfectly, your shoulders get hit monday and friday with bench, but wednesday is sort of your shoulders day if you want to think of it like that.

2.  Would adding cable rows on friday instead of rows be ok? Today was my intensity day and I have to admit that it felt a bit too easy.

Im a fan of staying with the barbell and free weights as much as possible. I would prefer to see you stick to barbell rows, I dont think seated rows are that great compared to BB rows. The point is you need to stick in that third intensity exercise. I knew you would feel like it was too easy doing just bench/squat.

3. You recommend to stick to 1x5 for intensity day for bench. It would probably be only like 1-2kg more than intensity day?

Well what i was saying was a little of what MVP was trying to tell you. Start with 1x5, keep going until you stall. Then drop it down to 1x3, keep going until you stall then you can drop it down further. It is worth mentioning when you do stall, give yourself another week at the same reps and try to increase again next week, if you still cant then drop it down. You can do it like that or immediately jump down, up to you.

I think it could be to do with my cardiovasuclar in relation to my long rests, but I simply find that I need a much longer rest in order for me to be able to lift at a higher intensity. But my workouts are lasting much less since I changed it around.

Thats fine, take as much as you need to recover but not waste time. I was just saying that because I was reading some of dans posts about recovery. 2 minutes is enough time for the muscle to perform another strength oriented set. But like you said it could be your cardiovascular system holding you back, or even a mental thing. Your cardiovascular system will adapt to what you throw at it be it running or weight lifting so if you force yourself to only take 3 min rest periods now, your body will adapt to it in a few weeks.
 
I'm removing squats on Wednesday simply the fact that I think my body is not conditioned to squats yet. Today I did 1x5 for squats, and I felt tired as afterwards.

You need to listen to your body sometimes, I would try to better condition yourself so that you can put them in there in future programs.


BTW, something quite dangerous happened today. When I racked the bar off the rack (low bar squat position), the bar started to slip off my back. I quickly tried to rack it back up, but I only had time to do one side of the bar, as the other side had started to slip too low, so I had to throw the bar off my back onto the safety racks. I gotta get my stupid shoulder flexibility better. It seems that no matter what I do, the flexibility seems not to improve much.

Yeah, keep stretching and squating. Your body will adapt. Dont let it get to you, accidents happen but the thing is, you handled it very well and didnt get hurt.

Thanks again :)

No problem! anytime

6'3"  @215

Squat 1x20x275

press: 190, Deadlift: 450, Bench:285, P.clean: 235, Squat: 385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Thanks for clearing up all my questions. just one more :)

What is usually your weight difference b/w your 5x5 and 1x5 for bench, rows and squats?

squats, probably a good 40 lbs

rows, I have no idea I do cleans, but cleans would be about 30ish pounds

bench, much smaller maybe 15-20.

Off the top of my head as I dont have my journal with me, but should be about right.

My bench is abysmal compared to my other lifts. Upper body in general is behind lower body stuff.

6'3"  @215

Squat 1x20x275

press: 190, Deadlift: 450, Bench:285, P.clean: 235, Squat: 385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Wow! That much? Mine is probably 5lb max. Maybe a bit more. It must be either my weighs are small compared to yours, or the fact that you rest a smaller amount for your 5x5 so you can do much less weight than 1x5?

i dont mean to steal the thread here but do you guys feel rows work well at all? I do bent over barbell rows and the results from them for me has been subpar in comparison to when i used to do cleans instead.

PumaKrieg


i dont mean to steal the thread here but do you guys feel rows work well at all? I do bent over barbell rows and the results from them for me has been subpar in comparison to when i used to do cleans instead.

If you're bench pressing you should row regardless to avoid imbalance in the shoulders. You should work the antagonist of each movement in order to maintain balance at the joint.

The row is back dominant, involving the lats, lower back, traps, biceps, posterior delts. The clean is a posterior chain dominant movement involving a complete different set of fibers. The two cannot be compared since they're different. The power clean can  be more compared to a deadlift.

If you would bench and not row, the potential for your shoulders rolling forward causing a potential for rotator cuff injuries is presented. When the anterior delt becomes developed, the posterior delts are neglected in comparison, the anterior delt would ultimately outweigh the posterior delt and pull the shoulder griddle forward. "Rounded shoulders" is the result and the severity is depended upon a controllable imbalance.

I have rounded shoulders from years of benching without rowing. Horizontal pulls are vital.

Personal Trainer/Nutrition Consultant

Well...

Some (including myself) do substitute cleans for rows. I feel it gets the job done, especially considering your also working other area's of your back with deadlifts/chins/pull ups.

I do rows typically as an assistance exercise anymore, maybe adding 2 sets of whatever at the end of a workout.

The intermediate workout is written for people who are between intermediate and beginner who can still progress linearly fairly well (week to week, instead of setting new PR's every other week to several weeks or months)

im going to copy and past a quote from Madcows guide:

" Substituting Exercises:
Don't **** with this. Every bodybuilder seems to have Attention Deficit Disorder and an overwhelming desire to customize everything. The bottom line is that these are all the most effective exercises and just about anything one does will result in less gains. As a rule those people who want to change it don't know enough to make proper alterations - those who do know enough, don't have much to change. The guy who is responsible for this program is of the best on the planet at bulking lifters and making people stronger. It's kind of like Sesame Street's Elmo offering neurosurgery advice at NYU. Anyway, it's absolutely essential not to screw with the squats, they are the foundation of this program. If you want to sub inclines or push presses for military that's okay. Do not sub machines - don't even think about it, hit yourself with a plate if you must. For arms choose a single biceps and triceps exercise and perform them at the end once per week for 3 sets of whatever - your arms will take a beating from all the pulling and pressing anyway. If you want to chin on Wednesday or do a few sets of pulldowns/ups that's fine (avoid the machines if you can use bodyweight). Core work is always fine. Cardio is fine - interval training is the best for this I'll just throw out. If this is just too much mental strain, take solace in the fact that it's just a few weeks, you'll gain a ton of muscle and strength and then you can spend the next 4 weeks adding the minute detail to refine the gained mass (like most care anyway - I have yet to meet a guy on this board who will trade 20lbs of muscle for a bit of added detail somewhere). In a nutshell, put your trust in some of the better coaches on the planet and enjoy the results."

I outlined an important part, stick to the program. Unless for some medical or physical reason you can not complete the recommended exercise, then stick to it.

It seems you know how to do cleans, which TBH is hard for a lot of people to learn, so first Kudos to you. Second, this may be good to progress on the rows for this routine and then go back to cleans later on.

Anyway, to answer your question, Cleans are fine to sub in for rows, but no I would not **** with the program unless you have a good reason for it.

6'3"  @215

Squat 1x20x275

press: 190, Deadlift: 450, Bench:285, P.clean: 235, Squat: 385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

I don't agree with bench pressing without using a horizontal pull regardless. Just due to the imbalance that I've witnessed first hand.

As far as power cleans go, nothing stops you from doing both. The power clean and row I don't think are comparable movements, it's like comparing an overhead press to a bench press. Two different planes, two different agonist muscles.

Rowing is about pulling from the infront from a horizontal bent over perspective demanding the power chain stabilize the hips isometrically and involvement of the lower back as well. The upper portion of the back becomes the agonist and the posterior delt the synergist, it's a reverse bench press which balances the external force that separates them at the shoulder, which balances the shoulders. Imbalance in the shoulders is a rotator cuff injury waiting to happen.

You should work each movements antagonist in order to maintain a balance at the joint as mentioned.

There's nothing wrong with doing both power cleans and rows. Rows are vital if you're bench pressing though --- every routine involved for strength / hypertrophy should contain a horizontal and vertical pull.

As far as cleans or rows, one is in the transverse plane and the other frontal, requiring different stimulus making them non-comparable in terms of similar movements. The power clean as mentioned in a previous post is posterior chain dominant.  

Personal Trainer/Nutrition Consultant

If there was no back work at all being done, I could see an imbalance develop obviously, but with Cleans, deadlifts and pull ups...I think your back is seeing plenty of work.

But i think your taking it as your cleaning all the time and never rowing. Subing Cleans for rows for a routine or two is not going to create any imbalance as long as the aformentioned exercises are present.

I am also biased towards cleans as well as I much prefer them as they are more mechanical/total body and explosive.

6'3"  @215

Squat 1x20x275

press: 190, Deadlift: 450, Bench:285, P.clean: 235, Squat: 385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Nm0ney34


If there was no back work at all being done, I could see an imbalance develop obviously, but with Cleans, deadlifts and pull ups...I think your back is seeing plenty of work.

But i think your taking it as your cleaning all the time and never rowing. Subing Cleans for rows for a routine or two is not going to create any imbalance as long as the aformentioned exercises are present.

I am also biased towards cleans as well as I much prefer them as they are more mechanical/total body and explosive.

A power clean isn't a movement focused on back development. The movement is pulled through utilization of the back compromised with force generated from the legs and hips. The exercise itself is not back dominant like the row, the movement is posterior chain dominant.

The row on the other hand doesn't compromise generated force from the hips making the emphasis placed on the back. Pulling from the infront involves more posterior delt utilization than pulling from the ground or the overhead as a towards the body approach - movements from the overhead are to work the lats and movements from the ground are to work the posterior chain. Movements from the infront have a prime reputation for building the antagonist of the bench press, making it essential for balance at the shoulders.

A row is a movement requiring pulling from the infront in the transverse plane.

The row balances two opposing forces on the same horizontal plane and the agonists and antagonists which separate the forces. 

The bench press is a horizontal push involving the antagonist which is worked through the row, which only demands small amounts of stabilization  yet replace the opposing pull movement with a limited and could easily be considered a temporary Olympic exercise doesn't make sense to me.

The relationship with the row and the posterior chain on the other hand is only to stabilize the hips isometrically in order to perform the desired range of motion. Without sharing the generated force from the hips and legs the movement involves more of the back concentrically and eccentrically.

Personal Trainer/Nutrition Consultant

While I dont really have anything to argue with to prove you wrong (because your not)

I do have experience, and a little guidance to go with what I am saying. Doing cleans along with deadlifts and pull ups has presented me with ample work for my back.

I enjoy rows, but IMPO do not think they are mandatory, much like I dont think bench press is mandatory. (for example, I can get strong and a well developed chest if all I wanted to do was consentrate on dips, OH press and push ups) But the bench being a great compound movement sort of ties in all those.

So in short, I think cleans are fine to substitute for rows. Cleans are sort of hard to classify to a body group, if I had to say anything I would say back simply because of the pulling mechanics, even though the force off the floor is generated by your legs/posterior chain, your back has to hold that weight in position and hold it up until the rack position, in which case the arms/front delts are holding and stabalizing it.

at any rate im not saying doing cleans will build you a super back, but they do work it nicely and complimented with other exercises (deadlifts and pull ups, hypers/good mornings) it can make for a nice routine for your back with out rows.

Besides the fact you can do both. Cleans as a main lift and rows as an assistance.

What else would you substitute rows for, I can really think of anything else that can come as close as the clean.

6'3"  @215

Squat 1x20x275

press: 190, Deadlift: 450, Bench:285, P.clean: 235, Squat: 385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Nm0ney34


While I dont really have anything to argue with to prove you wrong (because your not)

I do have experience, and a little guidance to go with what I am saying. Doing cleans along with deadlifts and pull ups has presented me with ample work for my back.

I enjoy rows, but IMPO do not think they are mandatory, much like I dont think bench press is mandatory. (for example, I can get strong and a well developed chest if all I wanted to do was consentrate on dips, OH press and push ups) But the bench being a great compound movement sort of ties in all those.

So in short, I think cleans are fine to substitute for rows. Cleans are sort of hard to classify to a body group, if I had to say anything I would say back simply because of the pulling mechanics, even though the force off the floor is generated by your legs/posterior chain, your back has to hold that weight in position and hold it up until the rack position, in which case the arms/front delts are holding and stabalizing it.

at any rate im not saying doing cleans will build you a super back, but they do work it nicely and complimented with other exercises (deadlifts and pull ups, hypers/good mornings) it can make for a nice routine for your back with out rows.

Besides the fact you can do both. Cleans as a main lift and rows as an assistance.

What else would you substitute rows for, I can really think of anything else that can come as close as the clean.

If you were to substitute a row I would say a differential kind of row would be necessary - cable rows, t-bar rows, etc. something that would work the equivalent muscle groups adequately.

The power clean is performed in a different plane (frontal) and vertical like the deadlift, involving explosive poundage utilizing generated force from the hips and legs. The row doesn't share the same mechanical movement and involves a infront pulling.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against power cleans and find them phenomenal mass builders. In order to gain optimal results, my advice is to do both.

If you're like me and have an injury preventing deadlifts, power cleans can be a life saver in order to get that extra posterior chain stimulus.

Agreed that bench presses aren't mandatory in strength training, weighted dips in general is a better solution. To avoid protracted shoulders, eliminating horizontal pushes is a first key step.

Personal Trainer/Nutrition Consultant

I just had my Intensity day

Bench: 1x5
Chinups: 3x5
Squats: 1x5
Rows: 1x5

For some reason, I felt really weak for chinups and did much worse than last week, and I had squats after squats.

I'm thinking of bringing down squats to the last exercise. I find it that my arms are really tired after squats, and not my legs for some reason, lol. My rows were terrible, I couldn't even row it with 1 rep properly, let alone 5 reps, and the weight is only 2.5kg more than monday. I might put squats down to the last exercise because at the moment, it's not been affected at all.

How are you holding the bar when you squat...that is very peculiar...

Are you straining your arms to hold the bar in place?

the bar should rest comfortably on your back, and your arms should simply be a place holder.

6'3"  @215

Squat 1x20x275

press: 190, Deadlift: 450, Bench:285, P.clean: 235, Squat: 385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

I don't think I'm straining to hold the bar, as it's resting on my back. I'll try to get a video next time.

However, one particular thing I need to fix is that I think when I squat it's slightly twisted. Simply the fact that one part of my shoulder flexibility is better than the other.

Rippetoe mentions in his book that to fix this you could put one side with a wider grip than the other. What do you think of this? I'm still working on my flexibilty though :)

You love answering my forum don't you btw? I really appreciate it, lol.

Im a virgo...apparently I like to help others out...haha

Have you tried what rippetoe says yet? if not you can give it a shot. Other then that your still working on your flexibility so it'll come in due time.

When you say twisted, do you mean twisting your torso to the side thats less flexible? That seems like a big problem, I dont know about you but I wouldnt want to be twisting any part of my torso with heavy weight on my back. :P

6'3"  @215

Squat 1x20x275

press: 190, Deadlift: 450, Bench:285, P.clean: 235, Squat: 385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Nm0ney34


Im a virgo...apparently I like to help others out...haha

Have you tried what rippetoe says yet? if not you can give it a shot. Other then that your still working on your flexibility so it'll come in due time.

When you say twisted, do you mean twisting your torso to the side thats less flexible? That seems like a big problem, I dont know about you but I wouldnt want to be twisting any part of my torso with heavy weight on my back. :P

I'm a virgo too.

Looking fantastic in your avatar btw!

Personal Trainer/Nutrition Consultant

For your information, I'm a virgo too =) My birthday is coming up in about 1.5months =)

LOL, my friends wife got me looking at this astrology stuff after she did, not that im the kind of person who checks my horoscope every day or gets to into it, but...

It was pretty neat reading about how each signs personality was supposedly. And how a lot of people I know fit their sign almost perfectly.

I brought it up in this thread because thats one of the things it says virgo's love to do is help others...heh.

6'3"  @215

Squat 1x20x275

press: 190, Deadlift: 450, Bench:285, P.clean: 235, Squat: 385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"