Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements

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Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:34 AM ( #1 )
Photo The dietary supplement Tren is at the center of a steroid controversy.  (CBS)


(CBS)  Since the first CBS News story aired last March, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has begun to crack down on designer steroids like Tren, but as CBS News correspondent Kelly Cobiella reported on "The Early Show," they're still very available -- and very dangerous.



Using a hidden camera at a supplement store, Cobiella spoke with an unidentified salesman who, referring to Tren said, "I saw a decent amount of size -- and it leaned me out."

Cobiella says that, since Part One of "The Early Show"'s "Early Eye" investigation on over-the-counter steroids aired Monday, there's been plenty of talk at supplement stores, in gyms and online about so-called "prohormones" such as Tren, including discussions of how they work, and the effect they can have on organs like the liver.

Maryland Congressman Elijah Cummings told "The Early Show," "I would guess that 85 percent of the people know exactly what they're doing. There's been too much publicity with regard to this area. They know."

Over-the-Counter Steroids?

However, as Cobiella and her team saw at supplement stores, it's not always easy to tell what's safe, and what may be a dangerous anabolic steroid.

Tyrone LaRose started taking Tren last fall to put on some weight, and to get more serious about bodybuilding and his bench press. The 42-year-old, who is going for his MBA in professional management, said if he had known Tren was an anabolic steroid, he "wouldn't have touched it."

"That's just not me," LaRose said."I don't do drugs, I don't do alcohol and I don't do steroids."

LaRose gained the weight he was looking for, going from 285 pounds to 335.

"At first I thought it was worth it, until I got ill," he said.

LaRose says he took less than the recommended dose -- about five pills a week for three months. Then he developed jaundice so severe his father had to take him to the emergency room.

Norman Edelen, LaRose's father said, "His eyes were almost cat green. And his complexion was terrible."

A biopsy revealed he had severe liver damage.

LaRose is part of a class action lawsuit against American Cellular Labs, the manufacturer of the "Tren Xtreme" product that he says took a heavy toll on his liver, and his skin.

LaRose is not the only one. Dr. Zeid Kayali, a liver transplant specialist at Loma Linda University Medical Center in Calif., was so alarmed about the severe liver damage he saw in a cluster of patients taking Tren, he reported them to the FDA.

Kayali said, "When you see multiple cases in a very short period of time in very healthy people who have no risk factor for liver disease, this is very alarming."

Dr. Don Catlin, a leading anti-doping expert, said, "There's nothing on the label that says your liver is going to rot. It may say somewhere on the small print that if you're an athlete be careful. But many times they don't."

Cobiella and her team had Catlin test the brand of Tren taken by LaRose and two others purchased online and at a supplement store.

Test results confirmed all three were anabolic steroids. All three are illegal supplements under the federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act.

So why are they still for sale?

Pennsylvania Senator Arlen Specter told Cobiella, "People assume that they've been cleared by the government by the Food and Drug Administration, which is not so. They're not subject to preclearance."

Specter is working on new legislation to make it easier for the Drug Enforcement Administration to classify designer steroids like Tren as controlled substances, such as heroin or cocaine.

Supplement industry spokesperson Dr. Daniel Fabricant, of the Natural Products Association said, "These folks are criminals. They're not part of the industry, and they need to be enforced against."

But with billions of dollars in profits, Cobiella remarked, it's an uphill battle. She added on "The Early Show" sports supplement marketers are 10 steps ahead of regulators in getting the next designer steroid to market. She said they just tweak a known illegal anabolic steroid by a molecule or two, and market it as a legal dietary supplement.

Are there safe alternatives?

Cobiella said there are protein powders and some other products. However, the alluring thing about Tren, she said, is that it actually works to build up muscles quickly.

But, she added, if you see a product and you're not sure what's in it, do your research. She said that, while these products don't say "steroid" on the package, if you do your research online, you'll know whether they are steroids from what people say about the product on the Internet.
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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Thursday, October 22, 2009 9:33 AM ( #2 )
I really don't think they are telling the whole story in regards to what caused his liver damage.
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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Thursday, October 22, 2009 9:44 AM ( #3 )
AdamScott


I really don't think they are telling the whole story in regards to what caused his liver damage.


Agreed.
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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:45 PM ( #4 )
Just another lopsided attempt at scare tactic "jouralism".

Tell us, CBS, what kind of liver support did Mr. LaRose use (if any) during his cycle?  What kind of PCT?  I bet if you asked him directly, you'd get the "deer-in-the-headlights" look.  What was his alcohol consumption on cycle?  What kind of meds is he on?   What's his family history of liver problems?  And three months?  Are you kidding me??  Even at below-recommended dose, that's a ridiculously long cycle.
 
There's a hole in this story big enough to drive Jay Cutler's semi full of illicit steroids through.
 
Sadly, the odds of there being any kind of responsible follow-up from CBS on this story are slim indeed.
<message edited by veggeep on Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:47 PM>
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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:01 PM ( #5 )
Let me get this straight:  At 42 (FORTY FRIGGIN TWOOOO!!!) this dude put on 50 pounds in 3 months?  And steroids aren't cheating?!  Wanted to improve his bench:  By CHEATING, people!  He put on 50 pounds (presumably muscle) in 3 months, and didn't think he was taking roids?  PUH LEEZ!  And the green eyes and yellow skin just appeared one day?  Or was it gradual, but he was hooked on the gains, and couldn't stop until it was obvious he was hurting himself.  And now, OF COURSE, he seeks to be made whole because, NO, it's not HIS fault.  You see the Tren makers were sticking a gun to his head FORCING him to keep taking it, even though it would have been OBVIOUS to even an amoeba that he was hurting himself.  What a moron.  Probably soon-to-be-millionaire moron.

"I'm so squeaky clean.  I would never stoop so low to take steroids.  But this Tren stuff is legal.  And I can put on 50 bricks of beef in 3 months!  But it's all me.  I'm natural."  What an a-hole.  Amazing what people are willing to stuff into themselves blindly.

Maybe you guys are right.  They're illegal to protect idiots from themselves.  I'm not interested in roids, but it always pisses me off when people get rewarded for their ignorance.  Or worse, when the rest of us have to foot the bill for their ignorance.
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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:07 PM ( #6 )
why was he taking it for 3 months and 5 pills a day?  

Will drinking damage your liver?  If you drank 3x more then what it would take to get you drunk for three months do you think you may get some kind of liver damage?  Was he drinking and taking the supplements? 


Again this is just another person who didn't do the proper research on the drug and got greedy. 
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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:10 PM ( #7 )
JMBS


Let me get this straight:  At 42 (FORTY FRIGGIN TWOOOO!!!) this dude put on 50 pounds in 3 months?  And steroids aren't cheating?!  Wanted to improve his bench:  By CHEATING, people!  He put on 50 pounds (presumably muscle) in 3 months, and didn't think he was taking roids?  PUH LEEZ!  And the green eyes and yellow skin just appeared one day?  Or was it gradual, but he was hooked on the gains, and couldn't stop until it was obvious he was hurting himself.  And now, OF COURSE, he seeks to be made whole because, NO, it's not HIS fault.  You see the Tren makers were sticking a gun to his head FORCING him to keep taking it, even though it would have been OBVIOUS to even an amoeba that he was hurting himself.  What a moron.  Probably soon-to-be-millionaire moron.

"I'm so squeaky clean.  I would never stoop so low to take steroids.  But this Tren stuff is legal.  And I can put on 50 bricks of beef in 3 months!  But it's all me.  I'm natural."  What an a-hole.  Amazing what people are willing to stuff into themselves blindly.

Maybe you guys are right.  They're illegal to protect idiots from themselves.  I'm not interested in roids, but it always pisses me off when people get rewarded for their ignorance.  Or worse, when the rest of us have to foot the bill for their ignorance.


He was taking more then the recommended dosage and for longer then recommended.  it wasn't that one bottle that he took.. 5 pills a day for 30 days is 150 pills.. He took more like three bottles of that ****.  He put on so much weight because his body was storing the water, his liver and kidneys were not working properly.  His muscles and probably face were bloated as ****.  

You get what I am saying?  LOL
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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:10 PM ( #8 )
if someone hasn't researched bodybuilding they make comments like "yeah, arnold was all natural" or "that ronnie coleman guy isn't on steroids". it's basically stuff you just have to avoid, i mean i can usually look at someone and tell if they're on juice or not. i don't go around accusing everyone that is bigger than me of cheating, but i will never say that my favorite IFBB pro bodybuilder was natural.

and yeah, people can take roids and not know it. i have people pming me on here all the time asking me what supplements will put 40lbs of mass on them in six weeks. i've ever had someone on another forum that i moderate on ask for a pct for his cell-tech.

have you guys ever watched a youtube video and had everyone commenting it saying "wow dude, you bencheded 405? what supps do you take?"


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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:11 PM ( #9 )
IBendBarbells

Again this is just another person who didn't do the proper research on the drug and got greedy. 


^ this
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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:17 PM ( #10 )
IBendBarbells


He was taking more then the recommended dosage and for longer then recommended.  it wasn't that one bottle that he took.. 5 pills a day for 30 days is 150 pills.. He took more like three bottles of that ****.  He put on so much weight because his body was storing the water, his liver and kidneys were not working properly.  His muscles and probably face were bloated as ****.  

You get what I am saying?  LOL


So it's mostly just water?  I'm assuming he got stronger too, gaining some muscle.  So he'd be all puffy and bloated, not rock hard?  That's gross!
 
Sounds like his greed for beef has turned to greed for cabbage.
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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:24 PM ( #11 )
High testosterone also elevates estrogen which causes water weight stimulating more glucose causing an increase in red blood cell production and hemoglobin which causes more blood and sodium uptake so that more water is held under the skin, resulting in a "bloated face" and overall bloat IBB is talking a bout so yes most of the time when you're running a cycle a lot of it is just water weight.
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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:29 PM ( #12 )
MVP


High testosterone also elevates estrogen which causes water weight stimulating more glucose causing an increase in red blood cell production and hemoglobin which causes more blood and sodium uptake so that more water is held under the skin, resulting in a "bloated face" and overall bloat IBB is talking a bout so yes most of the time when you're running a cycle a lot of it is just water weight.



Well sort of changing the subject a little, but I'm upping my creatine because I was only taking 15g/wk (5g/day for my 3 workout days).  RS recommended 20g/day week 1, 15g/d wk 2, then 10g maintenance or something like that.  And 1 gal of water a day.  What will that do for me?  Will I get bloated on that or look jacked like RS?
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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:35 PM ( #13 )
Here's the thing in my mind... (not talking about legality of the substances, cheating or not... none of those issues, or the other ones linked to these types of discussions).

I will even leave off my fondness of Natural selection... ie you should know what your putting in your body at all times..

Looking at the packaging, they way things like tren are displayed, and marketed... Honestly, do they warn you the way they should... I have bought stones... LIKE LITERALLY ROCKS, that have emblazoned on the package "not food, do not eat". Is there anything on the packaging to elude to the customer, how potent and potentially dangerous these compounds are... if abused. I know if i went into my local GNC and asked the staff about those products, the information I would get, would be inaccurate, and the compounds would not be disclosed as being that potentially harmful (I am going to say it again, to not steer this discussion in a different direction. if missued)....

Yes caveat emptor... but you all really, suppliment, Tren? We are taught at early ages in this stage in history, that a little pill, will solve all of our problems, and drugs are only dangerous when bought in back alleys... when quite frankley, we lable eveything as being hazzardous, unless advertisers can get away with out doing so... they have loop holes, so they get away with making the warnings as benign and harmless... You guys in the know... tell me I am wrong... I just double checked how those products are labled and advertised, just to double check myself... do you think they really elude to the potential power of these compounds??? Cycle assist is reccomended... shouldn't that read, more like this product must be followed up with  proper post cycle therapy... please! I didn't read anywhere that this is really only for males...
It is easy to say what freaking fools to be so careless with their bodies... but think about it... how many of you guys, could be the one being written about, in the class action lawsuit... remeber where you came from and how little you knew.
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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:47 PM ( #14 )
thehardway


Here's the thing in my mind... (not talking about legality of the substances, cheating or not... none of those issues, or the other ones linked to these types of discussions).

I will even leave off my fondness of Natural selection... ie you should know what your putting in your body at all times..

Looking at the packaging, they way things like tren are displayed, and marketed... Honestly, do they warn you the way they should... I have bought stones... LIKE LITERALLY ROCKS, that have emblazoned on the package "not food, do not eat". Is there anything on the packaging to elude to the customer, how potent and potentially dangerous these compounds are... if abused. I know if i went into my local GNC and asked the staff about those products, the information I would get, would be inaccurate, and the compounds would not be disclosed as being that potentially harmful (I am going to say it again, to not steer this discussion in a different direction. if missued)....

Yes caveat emptor... but you all really, suppliment, Tren? We are taught at early ages in this stage in history, that a little pill, will solve all of our problems, and drugs are only dangerous when bought in back alleys... when quite frankley, we lable eveything as being hazzardous, unless advertisers can get away with out doing so... they have loop holes, so they get away with making the warnings as benign and harmless... You guys in the know... tell me I am wrong... I just double checked how those products are labled and advertised, just to double check myself... do you think they really elude to the potential power of these compounds??? Cycle assist is reccomended... shouldn't that read, more like this product must be followed up with  proper post cycle therapy... please! I didn't read anywhere that this is really only for males...
It is easy to say what freaking fools to be so careless with their bodies... but think about it... how many of you guys, could be the one being written about, in the class action lawsuit... remeber where you came from and how little you knew.


Hardway,
   You have a point, assuming the guy was adhering to the directions and warnings.  But he should have known better than to OD on it if that was what happened.  And he is 42, a grown adult.  Even over the counter meds and supps can be dangerous.  I thought everybody should know that. 
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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:49 PM ( #15 )
JMBS


MVP


High testosterone also elevates estrogen which causes water weight stimulating more glucose causing an increase in red blood cell production and hemoglobin which causes more blood and sodium uptake so that more water is held under the skin, resulting in a "bloated face" and overall bloat IBB is talking a bout so yes most of the time when you're running a cycle a lot of it is just water weight.



Well sort of changing the subject a little, but I'm upping my creatine because I was only taking 15g/wk (5g/day for my 3 workout days).  RS recommended 20g/day week 1, 15g/d wk 2, then 10g maintenance or something like that.  And 1 gal of water a day.  What will that do for me?  Will I get bloated on that or look jacked like RS?


I've always been under the impression your body excretes more than 5g but RS is a knowledgeable guy, so I would say listen to him.
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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:52 PM ( #16 )
I'm just generalizing about the product info... The other link talked about a group of 18-20 year olds with gyno... 

But my point is aimed at the labeling and advertising of these products... and not that particular 42 year old idiot... or the "kids " either.
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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Thursday, October 22, 2009 3:01 PM ( #17 )
IBendBarbells


why was he taking it for 3 months and 5 pills a day?  

Will drinking damage your liver?  If you drank 3x more then what it would take to get you drunk for three months do you think you may get some kind of liver damage?  Was he drinking and taking the supplements? 


Again this is just another person who didn't do the proper research on the drug and got greedy. 



LaRose says he took less than the recommended dose -- about five pills a week for three months. Then he developed jaundice so severe his father had to take him to the emergency room.

I am not saying what he did was wise, correct... or anything along those lines... but it was 5 pills a week, (not day) for 3 months... bit different
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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Thursday, October 22, 2009 3:08 PM ( #18 )
I didn't take the time to read all this, I just know Tren is the bomb.
feb 2010
220 12-14%
bp 315
bs 405
dl 515

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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Thursday, October 22, 2009 3:15 PM ( #19 )
thehardway


IBendBarbells


why was he taking it for 3 months and 5 pills a day?  

Will drinking damage your liver?  If you drank 3x more then what it would take to get you drunk for three months do you think you may get some kind of liver damage?  Was he drinking and taking the supplements? 


Again this is just another person who didn't do the proper research on the drug and got greedy. 



LaRose says he took less than the recommended dose -- about five pills a week for three months. Then he developed jaundice so severe his father had to take him to the emergency room.

I am not saying what he did was wise, correct... or anything along those lines... but it was 5 pills a week, (not day) for 3 months... bit different


Do you think he's 42 and still lives with his parents?  /right "L" hand to my forehead atm/
j/k:  I guess times are tough all around.
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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Thursday, October 22, 2009 3:25 PM ( #20 )
All this is, is another story about someone who didnt know what they were doing and the media using it as a baseline for EVERYONE.
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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Thursday, October 22, 2009 3:32 PM ( #21 )
Nm0ney34


All this is, is another story about someone who didnt know what they were doing and the media using it as a baseline for EVERYONE.


N$ is on the $. This is correct.
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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:40 PM ( #22 )
IBendBarbells


why was he taking it for 3 months and 5 pills a day?  

Will drinking damage your liver?  If you drank 3x more then what it would take to get you drunk for three months do you think you may get some kind of liver damage?  Was he drinking and taking the supplements? 


Again this is just another person who didn't do the proper research on the drug and got greedy. 


veggeep


Tell us, CBS, what kind of liver support did Mr. LaRose use (if any) during his cycle?  What kind of PCT?  I bet if you asked him directly, you'd get the "deer-in-the-headlights" look.  What was his alcohol consumption on cycle?  What kind of meds is he on?   What's his family history of liver problems?  And three months?  Are you kidding me??  Even at below-recommended dose, that's a ridiculously long cycle.
 


I think you're missing the point. He didn't know that he was on a cycle to begin with. He likely didn't have much knowledge about the supplement industry, went into the store looking for advice, was given terribly bad and misguiding advice by either an uninformed employee or an employee who just wants to make sales - and then bought what he was recommended. That really, could happen to a hell of a lot of people and it wouldn't be their fault. They relied on the guy in the shop who's supposed to be trained to help them. I'm not saying people shouldn't research what they're buying online, but the fact is a lot of people don't. You wouldn't insult someone who went into a shop looking to buy a new TV and took the sales clerks advice, this really is no different.
Why would he take liver support if he weren't to know he needed it?
PCT? What for? He's not on a cycle. *as far as he knows*
Why would he avoid alcahol? I doubt the 'supplement' said to anywhere on the container.
And he was cycling for three months, because as far as he was concerned, he wasn't cycling.

Anger shouldn't be aimed at the uninformed consumer, more so the sales assistant, retailers and ultimately TREN. What's more worrying is all these young teens looking for the quick answer to building muscle fast would be very interested in TREN, and probably without knowing its a steroid. They wouldn't ask questions, they'd just know it works, it's a quick fix, and they want it.



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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:27 PM ( #23 )
It's called being a bad consumer if you don't research what you buy after you buy it, or before hand.  I wouldn't listen to anyone's advice in a store about anything.  I'll do my own research and come to my own conclusion, especially if it's something I'm going to put in my body.
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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:27 PM ( #24 )
Stupidity is not an excuse

I understand where your coming from, but if your going to spend the money to buy something to put into YOUR body...why the hell wouldnt you research it first, get some opinions? Its not like this is a crazy new product just being released to the public and no one knows anything about it.

If your going to be a salesman, I really think you need to understand what it is you are selling as well...just seems ETHICAL. So either the salesman didnt know, or he did know and just wanted to make a sale which is even worse.

I think they are both at fault, people are greedy and retarded.
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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Friday, October 23, 2009 4:50 AM ( #25 )
V,
   You would really buy a TV based on a salesperson's advice?  Or a car?  Or anything you put into your body?  Anyone who's done even a little research (like even paying attention to what you guys write on DBB) knows by talking for just a minute with a GNC employee that they're not as informed as they should be, or at least more interested in making a sale quickly and getting you out the door. 
   Maybe the solution is to require a prescription for this stuff so that you will be under medical supervision, because as you say, people are stupid and greedy, with no long term thinking about long term effects.
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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Friday, October 23, 2009 6:45 AM ( #26 )
JMBS


V,
   You would really buy a TV based on a salesperson's advice?  Or a car?  Or anything you put into your body?  Anyone who's done even a little research (like even paying attention to what you guys write on DBB) knows by talking for just a minute with a GNC employee that they're not as informed as they should be, or at least more interested in making a sale quickly and getting you out the door. 
   Maybe the solution is to require a prescription for this stuff so that you will be under medical supervision, because as you say, people are stupid and greedy, with no long term thinking about long term effects.


I wouldn't no, but people do.



V,
    You're the Clipart Photoshop GOD!

 
BJDPhoto

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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Friday, October 23, 2009 6:54 AM ( #27 )
V, I'm with N$ on this one.  Even if LaRosewas a flaming imbecile and started chugging pills on nothing more than a GNC rep's recommendation, you can't tell me he wasn't at least the slightest bit suspicious about what he was taking when he started getting gains like he reports.  If someone told me, "here, take these harmless vitamin pills", and I packed on 25 lbs in a month, I'd be damn concerned about what was in them.

THW, I know what you're saying about the labeling discrepancy, but think about it for a second.  If they put half the warnings these products require (even a mild mention of cycle support), the FDA would come down on them like a ton of bricks, because that would be a tacit admission that these products contain AAS.  These manufacturers have to go out of their way to say anything BUT.

Finally, on another note, I think it's incredibly hypocritical of the big networks to preach about the health supplement industry while they've got their lips wrapped so resolutely around Big Pharma's you-know-what.  They seem to have no problem running ads for mood-altering drugs and boner pills during PRIMETIME.  I just saw an ad for Chantix last night -a SMOKING CESSATION AID, mind you- that contained no fewer than four mentions of "increased suicidal thoughts or tendencies".  Lovely.

CBS need to stop giving asshats a platform to air their ignorance and demonizing products and businesses on nothing more than the reckless stupidity of a few bad apples.
JMBS

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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Friday, October 23, 2009 8:14 AM ( #28 )
veggeep


V, I'm with N$ on this one.  Even if LaRosewas a flaming imbecile and started chugging pills on nothing more than a GNC rep's recommendation, you can't tell me he wasn't at least the slightest bit suspicious about what he was taking when he started getting gains like he reports.  If someone told me, "here, take these harmless vitamin pills", and I packed on 25 lbs in a month, I'd be damn concerned about what was in them.

THW, I know what you're saying about the labeling discrepancy, but think about it for a second.  If they put half the warnings these products require (even a mild mention of cycle support), the FDA would come down on them like a ton of bricks, because that would be a tacit admission that these products contain AAS.  These manufacturers have to go out of their way to say anything BUT.

Finally, on another note, I think it's incredibly hypocritical of the big networks to preach about the health supplement industry while they've got their lips wrapped so resolutely around Big Pharma's you-know-what.  They seem to have no problem running ads for mood-altering drugs and boner pills during PRIMETIME.  I just saw an ad for Chantix last night -a SMOKING CESSATION AID, mind you- that contained no fewer than four mentions of "increased suicidal thoughts or tendencies".  Lovely.

CBS need to stop giving asshats a platform to air their ignorance and demonizing products and businesses on nothing more than the reckless stupidity of a few bad apples.


Agree 100%:  And the kicker is his stupidity may yet make him filthy rich!  And network news doesn't give a crap about facts.  It's whatever is titillating enough to boost ratings, so they can charge more for the Viagra and Extenze ads.  The almighty dollar and sex with a big hard d1ck are king.  And I suppose you have a better shot at hands-free sex if you pack on 50 lb of muscle in 3 months.
Yet

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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Friday, October 23, 2009 9:24 AM ( #29 )
JMBS, the odds of him getting very rich are slim.  The company can declare bankruptcy, put new labels on all their products from a new company name, and sell the same stuff.  Happens often.
President of the Emancipation Detoxification. DBB's oldest forum group, punching baby seals since 2/12/08
hillbillyfred

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Re:Steroids Disquiswed As Supplements - Friday, October 23, 2009 9:45 AM ( #30 )
i believe the guy is  not tellin the full story as far as product's like tren it's your choice to take them or not
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