Some opinions here. A lot of people love the effects from squatting. While I agree it is a phenomenal mass building movement not only for the various muscles it overloads but the hormonal benefits.

But why are people saying it's the biggest mass building movement? I disagree, I think deadlifts are.

Here me out.

Deadlifts overload more muscles and allow you to lift more weight. They are also a more natural movement performed by the body which means it would be more beneficial in everyday life and your body would automatically be more efficient at it, it's not often you have something laying on your back and have to drive it up using your legs and hips.

Deadlifts work the grip exclusively. Squats don't!

Deadlifts overload more muscles than every other movement - this includes squats. If you can deadlift more (it's a free barbell movement, not a machine movement) then your body will get used to stabilizing more weight.

Deadlifts recruit more muscles, so how can someone say squats are overall better?

Which do you think? Please vote!

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

There's not much anyone can say to dispute your post... Although I think both squats and deads are great exercises.. I think what really matters most is, the best lift is the one you enjoy doing most.. for me, it changes all the time.. I personally find that which ever lift I enjoy doing the most is usually the one I put the most effort into doing and in the end, receive more benifit from...

But if all things were equal.. I would have to say deads are king of all lifts.. at least thats what I think this month..

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

MVP


Some opinions here. A lot of people love the effects from squatting. While I agree it is a phenomenal mass building movement not only for the various muscles it overloads but the hormonal benefits.

But why are people saying it's the biggest mass building movement? I disagree, I think deadlifts are.

Here me out.

Deadlifts overload more muscles and allow you to lift more weight. They are also a more natural movement performed by the body which means it would be more beneficial in everyday life and your body would automatically be more efficient at it, it's not often you have something laying on your back and have to drive it up using your legs and hips.

I would like to see some proof that Deadlifts overload more muscle groups. I just cant say that personally, squats involve more IMO, Just the amount of stabalizers it takes to hold that weight on your back, go all the way down and come back up...

Natural...maybe, people carry things on their shoulders all the time, sit down and get up all the time. I will agree that its more likely that people bend down and pick things up off the ground...but even then, people arent bending down to pick up 50+ pounds or more. Let alone using a deadlifting form.

Deadlifts work the grip exclusively. Squats don't!

True

Deadlifts overload more muscles than every other movement - this includes squats. If you can deadlift more (it's a free barbell movement, not a machine movement) then your body will get used to stabilizing more weight.

No, and while you do lift more weight deadlifting...think about it. Your also traveling a much shorter distance with the weight. Your body gets accustomed to the motions and lifts that you perform, just because you can perform a 500lb deadlift with good form, does not mean those stabalizers will carry over to other exercises.

With the angles and leverage of your body on the deadlift compared to the squat, and the shorter distance. I think its only natural to see a person deadlifting more weight then squating.

Deadlifts recruit more muscles, so how can someone say squats are overall better?

Again I really dont think this is true at all. Squatting with 300 lb's on your back will require your whole body to stabalize the weight. I dont see how you think deadlifts recruit more.

Which do you think? Please vote!

I voted for squats simply because you specifically said mass builder. What is the best mass builder, Squats.

Why do we have the 20 rep squat program, and research backing up the Growth Hormone release caused by squating. Not that deadlifts dont do that, but squats are ahead of the pack in that category...which in turn tells me that its much more stressful on the body, releasing more GH.

Both are a vital part in your training regiment, but for overall mass building...I have to go with squats.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

both are they best, i love to superset them

but i voted for squats, only because they are more sports specific for me

update! 8/3/09

maxes and goals
bench - need to remax
goal bench - 405

squat - need to remax
goal squat - 500

deadlift - need to remax
goal deadlift - 500
weight -174.8 8%bf 

Nm0ney34
I would like to see some proof that Deadlifts overload more muscle groups. I just cant say that personally, squats involve more IMO, Just the amount of stabalizers it takes to hold that weight on your back, go all the way down and come back up...

Here is proof.

As mentioned, it works more muscles simultaneously than any other movement (yes, including even the beloved squat). The many muscles the deadlift targets will be discussed in the next section. The deadlift truly forces the whole body to grow.

Source:- http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson101.htm

Natural...maybe, people carry things on their shoulders all the time, sit down and get up all the time. I will agree that its more likely that people bend down and pick things up off the ground...but even then, people arent bending down to pick up 50+ pounds or more. Let alone using a deadlifting form.

You should be using your legs to lift weight up off the ground. It's one of the biggest things they teach you in the medical field.

No, and while you do lift more weight deadlifting...think about it. Your also traveling a much shorter distance with the weight. Your body gets accustomed to the motions and lifts that you perform, just because you can perform a 500lb deadlift with good form, does not mean those stabalizers will carry over to other exercises.

You're traveling a shorter range of motion, this is true, but the body is working more muscles as a unit and therefore it is more educated to work as a unit through deadlifting.

I've already proven the muscle groups overloaded in the post above. I thought everybody knew deadlifts recruit more muscles, they require arm utilization, squats are quad dominant and deadlifts are posterior chain dominant.

I voted for squats simply because you specifically said mass builder. What is the best mass builder, Squats.

I disagree, deadlifts overload more muscle groups than a squat and is more natural. Therefore deadlifts IMO would naturally be the bigger mass builder.

Why do we have the 20 rep squat program, and research backing up the Growth Hormone release caused by squating. Not that deadlifts dont do that, but squats are ahead of the pack in that category...which in turn tells me that its much more stressful on the body, releasing more GH.

Squats release growth hormone because of the muscles stressed, if deadlifts stress more muscles they'd naturally produce more testosterone and growth hormone. I've read in a scientific study that deadlifts actually release more testosterone, but of course that would depended upon the individual. Deadlifts were found to release more, I'd be happy to provide that study if you'd like.

By the way, every exercise releases testosterone, some just more a significant amount than others. Hyperventilating can temporary trigger anabolic hormone response too, anytime the body is under tension (even a barbell curl) releases some anabolic hormone assistance. But it would seem to be dictated by the amount of muscle groups overloaded with the volume and intensity of the workout.  

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

this is a very interesting discussion and both of you guys are making good arguments...

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

Another old as time argument.  It is nice to hear both sides but I don't like the question either way.  They are both great movements and both very important in their own right.  If there was a study that came out tomorrow that definitively stated that one was better than the other would it really matter?  I know for me at least that I would continue doing both.  It is like saying what is better for your health..brushing your teeth or showering.  No matter what, you will still do both, provided you are not a hobo.

• Squat

• Target

Quadriceps

• Synergists

Gluteus Maximus
Adductor Magnus
Soleus

• Dynamic Stabilizers

Hamstrings
Gastrocnemius

• Stabilizers

Erector Spinae

• Antagonist Stabilizers

Rectus Abdominis
Obliques

http://www.exrx.net/Wei.../Quadriceps/BBSquat.html

• Deadlift

Target
* Gluteus Maximus

Synergists
 * Quadriceps
 * Adductor Magnus
 * Soleus

Dynamic Stabilizers
* Hamstrings
* Gastrocnemius

Stabilizers
* Erector Spinae
* Trapezius, Middle
* Trapezius, Upper
* Levator Scapulae
* Rhomboids

Antagonist Stabilizers
* Rectus Abdominis
* Obliques

http://www.exrx.net/Wei...sMaximus/BBDeadlift.html

There's a comparison of the two, stating the deadlift works more muscles. I noticed in the deadlift comparison the grip muscles were not worked, they are a functionally essential part of the movement that is arguably one of the best parts of the deadlift is how is significantly increases grip strength. I may have looked over it and misidentified the scientific name for it. But grip strength is a particularly picky part of the movement, simply because a lot of people stall in deadlifts due to lack of grip strength.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Think of it this way, there are many people who do neither the squat or the deadlift, most due to uneducated theories on them being only "lower body movements".

A thread like this can do wonders for those people, we're not saying pick one or the other, if I imply the pros of the deadlift and n$ implies the pros of the squats, then we can get tons of significant information in this thread and could actually educate people on the importance of preforming both movements resulting in them incorporating both exercises into a training program.

I agree both in a routine will do better than just one, but IMO it's a good thread.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Sure, I think it would have been better to just talk about the pros of both instead of an argument on which is better though.  It is basically implying that because one is better you should use that one exclusively.   I know neither of you feel this way but that is how it comes off.

Both serve different purposes and therefore neither can be better than the other.  Squats are better than deads at building leg strength but Deads are better than squats at building a strong lower back.  That is why I don't like the argument.  I know you didn't mean it to come off like that but I'm just sayin.  Carry on.

The others are right, we can debate this till the cows come home and in the end both are two essential exercises...

That being said, just for fun.

"the deadlift, in my opinion, builds the upper and lower body like no other movement"
 - Taken from the beginning of the article.

I can find numerous articles lopsided either way, and take peoples opinions.

Some of his points are moot as well, The only thing I give the deadlift over the squat is the grip strength.

You still have not shown me sufficient proof that the deadlift recruits more muscle. The squat works everything your article said deadlifts hits. You think holding that weight on your traps/delts and stabalizing your core doesnt recruit your back? How about your arms/shoulders that have to hold the bar in place on your back?

some muscles that the squats hit may not be hit as hard during the deadlift and visa versa, but damnit they are getting hit!

I just cannot find a reason to agree that the deadlift would be a better mass builder, just having that much weight on your spine, the angles, stabalizers and ammount of muscles needed to simply balance the weight through out the movement.

I would like to see the study if you wouldnt mind linking it. Nearly every study I have read be it in a magazine or online in an article show Squats releasing the most GH in the body, followed by deadlifts and cleans.

And I am aware that any exercise can trigger the release of GH in the body. One of the reasons I have read that lead to squats being superior in this department is the ammount of weight placed on the spine throughout the lift. The squat and this goes for deads and cleans as well create a spill over affect that cause other muscles to reap the benefits of the increased GH.

As far as safety goes...beginners will likely see more injurys squating as it will be a more awkward movement to learn, most beginners crumble under the bar, creating the according squat...lol. Its much easier to say hey, theres the bar ill pick it up.

As you get your form down and advance into weight. I would suggest it is much easier to suffer an injury from the deadlift as to the squat.

So I will end on a good note and say that both of these lifts should be in everyones routine, regardless of your level (excluding physical limitations) Too often then not neither of these lifts make their way into most trainee's routines, and if they do...they are either half squating or rounding their backs. Both promote good health, posture and numerous strength and hypertrophy benefits, and should both be utilized!

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

You still have not shown me sufficient proof that the deadlift recruits more muscle. The squat works everything your article said deadlifts hits. You think holding that weight on your traps/delts and stabalizing your core doesnt recruit your back? How about your arms/shoulders that have to hold the bar in place on your back?

Yes I did.

    * Squat


    * Target

Quadriceps

    * Synergists

Gluteus Maximus
Adductor Magnus
Soleus

    * Dynamic Stabilizers

Hamstrings
Gastrocnemius

    * Stabilizers

Erector Spinae

    * Antagonist Stabilizers

Rectus Abdominis
Obliques

http://www.exrx.net/Wei.../Quadriceps/BBSquat.html

    * Deadlift

Target
* Gluteus Maximus

Synergists
 * Quadriceps
 * Adductor Magnus
 * Soleus

Dynamic Stabilizers
* Hamstrings
* Gastrocnemius

Stabilizers
* Erector Spinae
* Trapezius, Middle
* Trapezius, Upper
* Levator Scapulae
* Rhomboids

Antagonist Stabilizers
* Rectus Abdominis
* Obliques

http://www.exrx.net/Wei...sMaximus/BBDeadlift.html

The deadlift has 13, squats have 9.

I just cannot find a reason to agree that the deadlift would be a better mass builder

Because they overload more muscles, as given above. They are also a more natural movement.

I'll have a find at the study, but it may be two or three days before I get back with it, but I do promise to post it.

Nm0ney34
You think holding that weight on your traps/delts and stabalizing your core doesnt recruit your back? How about your arms/shoulders that have to hold the bar in place on your back?

Yes. You shoulders are not being stimulated. They are having a bar rest on them, shoulder stimulus to the anterior delts comes from pushing from the overhead or from the infront (not involved in the squat), the lateral deltoid stimulus comes from pulling from the side (not involved in the squat), the posterior deltoid stimulus comes from pulling from overhead, group or infront (deadlift).

Arms >> triceps stimulus comes from extension of the elbows, bicep stimulus comes from flexsion of the elbows. The arms are not utilized in a squat, the triceps are utilized in a deadlift and the biceps can act as eccentric stabilizers.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Just because it lists 9;13 does not mean those are the only things worked in the lift, we both know that.

The full clean involves more muscles then both lifts...part of the full clean is a front squat...the beginning of the clean is a deadlift...

so with your logic, why is it not number one in the mass building department?

*I was referring to the arms/shoulders being stabilizers, which is what they are performing. I would like to see someone squat without using their arms to stabilize the bar.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Nm0ney34
Just because it lists 9;13 does not mean those are the only things worked in the lift, we both know that.

That page is a very valuable source of information when it comes to eccentric and concentric movers of a lift.

The deadlift does recruit more muscles than squat. They also allow you to lift heavier.

The full clean involves more muscles then both lifts...part of the full clean is a front squat...the beginning of the clean is a deadlift...

I can't really comment on the full clean, I'm not familiar with cleaning movements in comparison to squats and deadlifts. I can say that you will not full clean as much weight as a squat or deadlift, therefore the overload wouldn't be as significant. The incline press recruits just as much muscle groups as a bench press, yet we all know bench presses are overall better for strength/hypertrophy training due to you targeting more areas of the chest and being able to lift more weight.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

While yahoo searching more information, apparently we're not the only ones having this discussion.

http://tnation.tmuscle....54.hydra?pageNo=2#bottom

T-Nation is discussing deadlifts VS squats as we speak!

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

squats kill me as compared to deadlifts....
logically deadlifts but if i havta choose one squats ftw

goin thru t nation dlifts the unanimous choice...but still
all the RESPECT for squats

It seems the voting is dead even... It's going to be interesting to see what the votes end up being a in few days.. I’m guessing squats will probably end up winning..

But as mentioned previously, there's no disputing the benefits of both lifts but i still believe the lift you enjoy doing is going to be the lift you excel with and prefer. 

but these types of threads are always good...  Although most of the people who visit this board regularly know most of this stuff anyway, it's great for web searches and directs new people to the site and offers up very valuable information that the average person just getting into lifting has no idea about...

so in return, these types of threads not only serve as a guideline for new and even experienced lifters, but they also serve the forum as tool helping to recruit new members.

that was one of my biggest pet peeves for a while.. anytime someone would start a common thread about a popular topic.. so many people would scream... USE THE SEARCH TOOL... But I don't want to use the search tool.. I want to have an up to date discussion about a popular topic such as this.. and by doing so, they really do serve more than one purpose and benefit..

 

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

I would put the squat above the deadlift personally. Despite both being huge movements of which incorporate a multitude of muscles and basically mirror some basic human movements, I say the squat comes out on top.

Current Supplements: Multi, Whey, Caffeine, BCAA, Vitamin C, Calcium
Current Cycle: Strength

"Do not go where the path may lead, instead go where there is no path, and leave a trail."

Im trying to find any study I can on GH release comparing both squats and deadlifts, but I cant seem to find anything.

I did come across this BB.com article on squats, which goes to show you can find anything to support your side. He claims the things he says is backed up by studies, and even though I agree squats are #1 and deads #2...I wish he would have linked some damn studys.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/jamesst1.htm

It seems like the majority of people regardless of where I read, think deadlifts are the better mass builder. Its close but they always seem to come on top, I just dont see why. But I have already stated my reasons, so I wont go into it again.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

If I had to choose one it would be deadlifts.  I feel like deadlifts have a bigger affect being that not only are you using your lower back and legs but you're also working out your forearms, traps and uper back and many other upper body muscles that i don't feel benefit as much from doing squats.

Deadlifts.

The way I judge it is from my experience when doing both lifts. To me, it seems like the deadlifts recruit more muscles. I feel big and strong when doing deadlifts. I wonder why nobody said it, but deadlifts really work my traps. Most of what I have on my traps and forearms come from the deadlifts.

Never skip the squats though. Nice thread IMO.

5'8.1"
Age = 20 
started in February 16th 2007: 58kg (127.6lbs)
current : around 79-80kg (173.8lb-176lb)

I figured when I made this thread deadlifts were going to end up on the losing end.

Seems the complete opposite, same results to the T-Nation thread. I'm satisfied with the poll results.

Of course, you should ideally have both movements in your program, but I've always felt more mass has been put on by using the deadlift than the squat with little to think about. More people IMO think squats are better because they go by the 3X per week squatting routines and deadlift once per week. It's not a fair comparison, deadlifting 1X per week or 2X per week with the same attention on squats is a much more comparison and most people will typically find that deadlifts will usually do more for the individual. Pretty much because they overload more muscle groups.

When I reached a significant plateau at bench presses at one point, I started doing deadlifts (I had not done them consistently before) and my bench press shot up from 195 for reps to 225 for reps and I still weighed less than 195lbs.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Since the quat, deadlift debate has been around for so long.. I think it would be interesting to see someone do a study where they take two indiviudals, preferably twin males who have never trained with weights.. put them on a 6 months training routine where one does only squats and the other does only deads.. before starting the routines, measure each trainee's three major lifts... and make sure they are both eating the same type of diet..


If I had to guess I would say the deadlift trainee would have more overall muscle and strength developement than the squater...

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

I agree, smoundzou.

Even if the squatter developed a strong enough posterior chain via squatting to keep him up with the deadlifter, his grip would probably fail before his legs would preventing him from deadlifting on the same level as the other guy.

Deadlifts working the triceps, pretty much the whole entire (upper and lower) back, traps, etc. he would definitely have the advantage over the squatter with bench pressing. Lats being eccentric stabilizers, triceps being synergists and traps being worked those are all advantages the deadlifts have over the squatter.

I just find most people that say squats are overall better have usually been on a routine that squats 3X per week. This neglects deadlifting 3X per week (usually) and if you're doing 15 total sets of squats per week VS 5 sets of deadlifts that isn't a fair comparison.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

The original question was and remains, what is the better mass gainer. Not what is the better strength exercise, or what will help your strength better in other lifts.

If that is your argument I am more inclined to agree that the deadlift would ultimately surpass the squat in just shear strength gained for other exercises.

However it would be interesting to see because the squat will put more mass on you, and even though mass does not necessarily equal strength it does have some correlation.

Deadlifts allow most people to lift more weight. Again, shorter ROM, angles and mechanics. Your picking something up off the ground with better leverage and a shorter ROM as opposed to standing with something heavy on your spine with a longer ROM. For this reason alone I think that is the reason for the better GH release, and the increase in mass squats present (so long as a proper diet is also there)

You discredit the 3x a week, but from what I have read the 20 rep squat program is 2x a week. People also deadlift 2x a week, so where is the 20 rep deadlift program to put on mass?

You also seem to neglect having a heavy load on your back which is right on the spine and let alone balancing the weight, to squat with proper form involves the entire body. The deadlift may in fact work some more muscle harder, I wont deny that. But to say the deadlift involves more muscles is just silly.

Like I said before if using your logic, the full clean should be far ahead of the squat and deadlift in regards to GH and mass because it starts as a deadlift, and involves the front squat. So it works all the muscles involved with the deadlift as well as the squat with more emphasis in different area's.

If the ultimate goal was just strength and to stay at a given weight, I think deadlifts would be the way to go. But for strength AND size, you just cannot beat the squat.

btw I am really looking forward to this study your going to post, I have yet to find anything regarding deads and GH at all. I PM'ed Dan and asked him if he knew of any and could possibly post them if they were available.

MVP


I agree, smoundzou.

Even if the squatter developed a strong enough posterior chain via squatting to keep him up with the deadlifter, his grip would probably fail before his legs would preventing him from deadlifting on the same level as the other guy.

Deadlifts working the triceps, pretty much the whole entire (upper and lower) back, traps, etc. he would definitely have the advantage over the squatter with bench pressing. Lats being eccentric stabilizers, triceps being synergists and traps being worked those are all advantages the deadlifts have over the squatter.

I just find most people that say squats are overall better have usually been on a routine that squats 3X per week. This neglects deadlifting 3X per week (usually) and if you're doing 15 total sets of squats per week VS 5 sets of deadlifts that isn't a fair comparison.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Nm0ney34
However it would be interesting to see because the squat will put more mass on you, and even though mass does not necessarily equal strength it does have some correlation.

OK, before I start. Anytime you see "*" in my posts, it's a su*stitute for the letter that comes after A, the key is *roke on my laptop and I'm clueless to how it got *roke.

I disagree, the exercise that overloads more muscle groups will put more mass on you, in this case it's the deadlift. 

Deadlifts allow most people to lift more weight. Again, shorter ROM, angles and mechanics. Your picking something up off the ground with better leverage and a shorter ROM as opposed to standing with something heavy on your spine with a longer ROM. For this reason alone I think that is the reason for the better GH release, and the increase in mass squats present (so long as a proper diet is also there)

In this case the clean and press would release more GH and testosterone than a squat or deadlift.

You discredit the 3x a week, but from what I have read the 20 rep squat program is 2x a week. People also deadlift 2x a week, so where is the 20 rep deadlift program to put on mass?

I never discredited it, I just said it wasn't a fair comparison. If someone does one movement 3X per week and the other movement 1X per week they would naturally respond more from the movement that are giving the most attention to.

You also seem to neglect having a heavy load on your back which is right on the spine and let alone balancing the weight, to squat with proper form involves the entire body. The deadlift may in fact work some more muscle harder, I wont deny that. But to say the deadlift involves more muscles is just silly.

The deadlift does work more muscle groups, I've given proof of this twice. The original article the guy said he estimated that deadlifts were a more effective mass gainer and then descri*ed why and you cannot have an opinion on more muscle groups overloaded during a movement. It is facts. Then I posted the muscle groups utilized in a squat and deadlift and once again the deadlift was on top. No one can say squats overload more muscle groups, that couldn't *e farther from the truth.

Like I said before if using your logic, the full clean should be far ahead of the squat and deadlift in regards to GH and mass because it starts as a deadlift, and involves the front squat. So it works all the muscles involved with the deadlift as well as the squat with more emphasis in different area's.

That's an accurate comparison. The full clean involves less weight and less stimulus to direct muscle groups. How would you identify an eccentric, isometric and concentric comparison to a movement that invovles two movements together?

If the ultimate goal was just strength and to stay at a given weight, I think deadlifts would be the way to go. But for strength AND size, you just cannot beat the squat.

I'm still in high disagreement with this statement, the exercise that overloads more muscle groups would give more hypertrophy. A deadlift involves *ack extension in which stimulates the *ack *etter, it involves extension of the el*ows given a *etter sta*ilized tricep flexsion in comparison to a squat that doesn't even work the arms. Posterior deltoid stimulus comes from pulling from the overhead, in front or ground << this is a movement made during the deadlift and not the squat making it more efficient for direct shoulder utilization. Lat stimulus comes from pulling, you do not pull during a squat it is merely an isometric comtraction that is not nearly as significant as a deadlift where the lats would have assistance as a concentric mover.

btw I am really looking forward to this study your going to post, I have yet to find anything regarding deads and GH at all. I PM'ed Dan and asked him if he knew of any and could possibly post them if they were available.

It's *een a*out four of five months since I ran into it. *ut I've *een searching, it's difficult to find things like this. As far as GH and testosterone goes, you release it with hyperventilation too, so even if you can find a study that says squats release more GH. Could you argue if hyperventilating surpasses the production of ana*olic response of a squat that hyperventilating is a more effective mass *uilder?

The voting speaks for itself in general. It's 11-5, the people that voted for deadlifts did so *ecause they felt deadlifts provided them with more mass from their experience, I wouldn't tell them they were wrong.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

I voted squats because it can help u so much in my sport football and my other one basketball.

rearview mirror jumbo dice trunk hit hard like kimbo slice

You cant go by a poll on a website, I want evidence especially if your going to claim that deadlifts are a better mass builder and releases more GH.

Once again, its very easy to see big gains in your deadlift, and its naturally going to be your biggest lift, and for those reasons alone people are going to be more prone to choosing them. Simply psychology.

Its also a much easier lift to perform, set up for and execute.

People would pick it for those reasons alone. Its much easier to see results and shine with the deadlift then with the squat.

Squats are hated by like 90% of the training population, either because of ignorance, false information or they are just plain lazy...Its a much more complicated and mechanical lift then the deadlift.

Lets also not forget that people can see strength gains much easier with a piss poor deit or lack of calories, while to see squats shine as a mass gainer you need to be paying attention to your calories and make sure your in a surplus.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"