The point is, while as insignificant as it may be, and im not disputing that. They are still required to perform the lift.

They are still involved and it still involves the entire body. They are helping to stabalize the weight on your back to keep it in place. You cannot perform the squat without your arms.

RedJeep

Nm0ney34


Just because it lists 9;13 does not mean those are the only things worked in the lift, we both know that.

The full clean involves more muscles then both lifts...part of the full clean is a front squat...the beginning of the clean is a deadlift...

so with your logic, why is it not number one in the mass building department?

*I was referring to the arms/shoulders being stabilizers, which is what they are performing. I would like to see someone squat without using their arms to stabilize the bar.

Your legs and core stabilize the weight much more than anything in your arms/shoulders. The weight is resting on your back/shoulders and therefore requires very little effort from the arms/shoulders. Their involvement in terms of moving the weight is insignificant since very little stress is placed on them.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

and btw as far as the squat being more posterior chain dominate, simple change your stance to a wide/sumo stance and you are getting much more lower posterior chain involvement.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

RedJeep
The reason you may feel your posterior side is utilized more is because those are probably the weakest part of your legs (hence why squats are quad dominant).

Agreed.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Nm0ney34


The point is, while as insignificant as it may be, and im not disputing that. They are still required to perform the lift.

They are still involved and it still involves the entire body. They are helping to stabalize the weight on your back to keep it in place. You cannot perform the squat without your arms.

RedJeep

Nm0ney34


Just because it lists 9;13 does not mean those are the only things worked in the lift, we both know that.

The full clean involves more muscles then both lifts...part of the full clean is a front squat...the beginning of the clean is a deadlift...

so with your logic, why is it not number one in the mass building department?

*I was referring to the arms/shoulders being stabilizers, which is what they are performing. I would like to see someone squat without using their arms to stabilize the bar.

Your legs and core stabilize the weight much more than anything in your arms/shoulders. The weight is resting on your back/shoulders and therefore requires very little effort from the arms/shoulders. Their involvement in terms of moving the weight is insignificant since very little stress is placed on them.

Being that you grasp the bar with your hands, I would say the flexor muscles in your forearms do more work than anything else. The delts would be used slightly to balance left and right. That is about it. Really not significant.

You can do squats on a smith machine without your arms but you can't do a deadlift without your arms on a smith machine. Thats how insignificant your arms are in a squat.

As stated, arms are worked (significantly) when they are forced into a position of flexsion. Biceps are forced to flexed when you pull from the overhead, from the infront or directly through a bicep specific isolation like a dumbell curl... this is when your elbows are forced into a position of flexsion (not happening with a squat or deadlift really).

Triceps are forced into a position of flexsion during bench press in order to extend the arms. Triceps are stimulated when the elbow fully extends, the elbow isn't fully extended during a squat either... so as RedJeep has pointed out, any arm involvement is completely insignificant seeing they're not put in a point of forced flexsion.

During a deadlift, you are required for the elbow to be extended and the triceps are the elbow extensors. Therefore, although the involvement will not be as significant, the triceps are slightly involved during a deadlift, but if anything - it would be just an isometric contraction in order to perform the movement.

You grip the bar with your forearms with a squat, so if anything, the forearms would have an isometric involvement in comparison to the triceps or biceps.

Good discussion.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

It's called discuss but you guys ain't....you are debating...
There is a difference, discussing is talking with arguments, debating is saying you are plain wrong because your way is better...


I read all over rippetoe said this, rippedtoe said that...he is no guru, he is someone selling books...that's all. Just like Marc here, he knows a lot, but ain't no guru.
Stop refering about him all the time.

MVP posted a link...that doesn't prove anything to N$...
But you can rely on rippedtoe all over and it's the infinite thruth...
Give me a break

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

Nic


It's called discuss but you guys ain't....you are debating...
There is a difference, discussing is talking with arguments, debating is saying you are plain wrong because your way is better...

Hate to be anal, but that's not what "debate" and "discuss" mean.  To discuss something is simply to converse about it, with or without arguments.  To debate something is to discuss it from conflicting perspectives.  There's nothing wrong with a good debate.  I haven't read the thread all the way through yet, but it seems there's a pretty nice debate going on.  Keep it up guys.

(edited to fix a couple typos)

that is exactly what I said but with other words.

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

Nic


that is exactly what I said but with other words.

sorry Nic, but that's not what you said.. you must have been thinking what he said in your native language.. because what you posted was something totally different..

Nic
discussing is talking with arguments, debating is saying you are plain wrong because your way is better...

 
Maybe that's what it means in the french language but certainly not in english..
 
but seriously.. you should read your last few posts.. You yourself are participating in a debate, as to this entire post being a debate??!!??  so in essence.. the post is not really a debate but a discussion and you are insisting it is a debate.. by doing so.. you're debating..not disucssing.... ??!!
 
OK.. now I'm confussed????  what are we talking about here????

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

It might be that I don't have to speak English much anymore at work...

I meant to say that...but who cares....

I try not to debate, I mostly just read but I hate it when I read single minded people writting that rippetoe is GOD....

sorry about it.

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

OK guys...20-9 is the score, deadlifts won by more than double the votes. I'm satisfied

Here's the new poll...what is the difference in discuss VS debate? LOL, just kidding...

Great discussion anyway, hopefully everyone that reads it will enjoy it...although I'm willing to bet within a year from now, somebody is going to bump this

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

I agree Jane...did you vote?

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

brihead301


It's called "discuss bodybuilding".  It wouldn't be very much fun if there wasn't anything to debate or discuss.  In fact, the forum wouldn't even exist.

Anyway, just because http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/BBSquat.html
says it, doesn't necessarily mean it's 100% accurate.

If you read starting strength, his opinion says that the hamstrings are dominant in the squat.  Then again, that's only one source too, so it may not be 100% accurate.

Besides, in a deadlift it is knee extension which drives the weight up. Does that mean that a deadlift is quad dominant also?

 
Nic, this is the only place where Rippetoe was even brought up, and I even said that he is just one person.  I was making a point against the relevance of MVP's linked reference.
 
That aside, you must admit, he did write a pretty in-depth book about the science behind these lifts, and there aren't many people that did what he did to compare it to.  So you can only expect that in a discussion about this topic, that his writings would be referenced.

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117358

LOL... bri I saw you quoted yourself..there for a second I LOL'ed because I thought you were going to dispute your own post...LOL

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

You may have some things confused, but I really think you just dont like certain members. I dont know about some of you, but I can clearly read who Nic favors when he posts in his threads... cough * cough *

Thats not what really bothers me, but it is kind of annoying how you underlie it in your posts. Just let us have our discussions, if you dont like it, there is no need to post. You seem like a reasonable guy, just stay out unless moderator attention is needed, or if you want to chime in yourself with something relevant to the discussion.

No one is claiming to be guru's...you really are coming off something bad coming on here tell us we arent powerlifters or body builders.

You seem like you have a problem with some of the members here, and Rippetoe for whatever reason...

At any rate, this poll means absolutely nothing but personal opinion.

You posted a link that refers to muscles used in the 2 exercises. The deadlift may overload more muscle groups.

but that was NOT the initial question, the initial question was what is the best mass builder.

You dont have any proof that the deadlift produces more GH then the squat. Your anatomy link did not prove that. You seem satisfied like you proved something from this poll...

If deadlifts produce more GH and you provided a proof, stating that they do in fact edge squats out. Thats fine, I will gladly shut up and admit your correct, but until then you have nothing but polls from different websites.

Its the reason we have 20 rep squat programs designed to do nothing but put mass on you.

Its why squats got that reputation in the first place. Deadlifts just do not get it done as well as squats, for whatever reason (Why I wish there was a study done)

Im going to repeat this again, people are naturally going to choose deadlifts over squats. This makes polls like this void in any regard but personal opinion, it proves nothing.

Shorter ROM, heavier weight, easier exercise to set up and execute...naturally people will flow to this because of course, the exercise you can do the most weight on is the one that makes you grow the most right?

because a 1,000 lb leg press will put more mass on then a 300 lb squat or 500 lb deadlift... If that were the case, legpress's would be a staple in everyone's routine because they were good, not because of ignorance or laziness.

From all the studies I have read and articles I have read about, squats are the number one mass builder. Squats seem to be the only exercise I can currently find that are done for tests that deal with maximum GH release.

In the end both should be used, I just dont think deadlifts are ahead of squats in the mass building department for several reasons, that you just cannot dispute. Nor should people on this site or anyone reading this think deadlifts are #1 simply because this poll favors deadlifts.

If I come off as angry, im not. Theres not much left to say, so ill end it on Hopefully we can find or see a study done sometime soon. Both are important as stated many times in this thread, but theres nothing wrong with the quest for knowledge and knowing more.

Nic


It's called discuss but you guys ain't....you are debating...
There is a difference, discussing is talking with arguments, debating is saying you are plain wrong because your way is better...


I read all over rippetoe said this, rippedtoe said that...he is no guru, he is someone selling books...that's all. Just like Marc here, he knows a lot, but ain't no guru.
Stop refering about him all the time.

MVP posted a link...that doesn't prove anything to N$...
But you can rely on rippedtoe all over and it's the infinite thruth...
Give me a break

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Um N$ did you not read the study I posted saying deadlifts release more GH and testosterone more than any other compound exercise? I told you if you felt I was lying about it, search it on yahoo yourself... that's what I did.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Here we go again - I believe this will be my last post in this thread, personally... I'll be repeating myself if I say more.

Nm0ney34
Its the reason we have 20 rep squat programs designed to do nothing but put mass on you.

No, it's because 20 rep deadlifts will usually effect form first. It's harder to do higher reps with deadlifts because form will give out. Not everyone does 20 rep squats, few people on this forum has probably even considered them.

Its why squats got that reputation in the first place. Deadlifts just do not get it done as well as squats, for whatever reason (Why I wish there was a study done)

Please show proof of this, who said squats were number one?

Im going to repeat this again, people are naturally going to choose deadlifts over squats. This makes polls like this void in any regard but personal opinion, it proves nothing.

Sure it does.. the question wasn't which do you like the best... it was which is the biggest mass builder... people chose which one they thought they gained the most mass with, because it's against your logic it's wrong?

Shorter ROM, heavier weight, easier exercise to set up and execute...naturally people will flow to this because of course, the exercise you can do the most weight on is the one that makes you grow the most right?

To be honest - I'd rather do squats ANY DAY... I hate deadlifts and how taxing they are on my body.

because a 1,000 lb leg press will put more mass on then a 300 lb squat or 500 lb deadlift... If that were the case, legpress's would be a staple in everyone's routine because they were good, not because of ignorance or laziness.

You can leg press more because you're supplemented to the seat pressing the external load over 45 degrees and that factors in only half of the gravity in relation to a squat... another reason, you usually lift more in a machine (usually)... hence why you can smith machine squat more than regular squats, movement pattern being another reason.

From all the studies I have read and articles I have read about, squats are the number one mass builder. Squats seem to be the only exercise I can currently find that are done for tests that deal with maximum GH release.

Then explain the study I posted.

In the end both should be used, I just dont think deadlifts are ahead of squats in the mass building department for several reasons, that you just cannot dispute. Nor should people on this site or anyone reading this think deadlifts are #1 simply because this poll favors deadlifts.

People voted for the one they felt gave them the most mass.

If I come off as angry, im not. Theres not much left to say, so ill end it on Hopefully we can find or see a study done sometime soon. Both are important as stated many times in this thread, but theres nothing wrong with the quest for knowledge and knowing more.

I already posted a study.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

You guys have a break from me...

I will be in Holidays for the next 3 days...you lucky N$.
I don't have to remind you the #9 rule of this forum.

I have no one in my favors, I just agree more often with MVP than you.

You guys put too much importance about a website...it's internet...just relax, it's summer, the sun, the beers, the fun OUTSIDE.

Put your feelings and disagrements aside and enjoy working out your own way without saying people they're doing it wrong all the time.

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

I sit in an office behind a computer all day.  I ain't got s*** else to do that's better then argue with random people on the internet about the best way to workout.

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117358

Nic


You guys have a break from me...

I will be in Holidays for the next 3 days...you lucky N$.
I don't have to remind you the #9 rule of this forum.

I have no one in my favors, I just agree more often with MVP than you.

You guys put too much importance about a website...it's internet...just relax, it's summer, the sun, the beers, the fun OUTSIDE.

Put your feelings and disagrements aside and enjoy working out your own way without saying people they're doing it wrong all the time.

Threatening people over the internet with your mod power is  LAME

MVP


Here we go again - I believe this will be my last post in this thread, personally... I'll be repeating myself if I say more.

Nm0ney34
Its the reason we have 20 rep squat programs designed to do nothing but put mass on you.

No, it's because 20 rep deadlifts will usually effect form first. It's harder to do higher reps with deadlifts because form will give out. Not everyone does 20 rep squats, few people on this forum has probably even considered them.

What a lame excuse. As if high rep squats dont cause your form to slip either. Theres a reason people are scared to try 20 rep squats...

Its why squats got that reputation in the first place. Deadlifts just do not get it done as well as squats, for whatever reason (Why I wish there was a study done)

Please show proof of this, who said squats were number one?

Every magazine I have read regarding GH. Many articles online or on paper...yet I have never seen a study done stating deadlifts are number one.

I looked up your study...heres the link

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1860749

It offers NO proof dealdifts produce more GH then squats. It states Heavy resistance training in men and women. Nothing about which exercises they used in the study.

Curious, where did you get your quote stating deadlifts produced more? because even if that were proven true it says, compound exercises...which ones?

Im going to repeat this again, people are naturally going to choose deadlifts over squats. This makes polls like this void in any regard but personal opinion, it proves nothing.

Sure it does.. the question wasn't which do you like the best... it was which is the biggest mass builder... people chose which one they thought they gained the most mass with, because it's against your logic it's wrong?

lol...ok well im going to make a poll...how about Hockey vs football. Then the winner of that poll will undisputedly be better then the other. Are you kidding me? this poll proves nothing but people migrating to the exercise that they can lift more, feel more comfortable with and execute easier.

Shorter ROM, heavier weight, easier exercise to set up and execute...naturally people will flow to this because of course, the exercise you can do the most weight on is the one that makes you grow the most right?

To be honest - I'd rather do squats ANY DAY... I hate deadlifts and how taxing they are on my body.

Ok, still just a personal opinion. I personally love doing deadlifts. Especially since mine have started to go up past 400. It still hasnt put mass on me like the squats have.

because a 1,000 lb leg press will put more mass on then a 300 lb squat or 500 lb deadlift... If that were the case, legpress's would be a staple in everyone's routine because they were good, not because of ignorance or laziness.

You can leg press more because you're supplemented to the seat pressing the external load over 45 degrees and that factors in only half of the gravity in relation to a squat... another reason, you usually lift more in a machine (usually)... hence why you can smith machine squat more than regular squats, movement pattern being another reason.

My point being, people favor leg press simply because you can load that much weight onto it. Go to your local gym and ask around...the results will be staggering. Then also ask how many people do squats...and if not why. Then take the people that said they squat, cut that number in half because half only do half squats.

From all the studies I have read and articles I have read about, squats are the number one mass builder. Squats seem to be the only exercise I can currently find that are done for tests that deal with maximum GH release.

Then explain the study I posted.

Look above. Go to the actual link to the study and read. Unless im missing some other link, or page, there is nothing about deadlifts or squats.

In the end both should be used, I just dont think deadlifts are ahead of squats in the mass building department for several reasons, that you just cannot dispute. Nor should people on this site or anyone reading this think deadlifts are #1 simply because this poll favors deadlifts.

People voted for the one they felt gave them the most mass.

Again, which you cant use as proof something is better. Please refer to my previous explinations on why people would gravitate to the deadlift over the squat.

and Nic...if you dont want to come off as having something against other members...then why do you post things like...

I will be in Holidays for the next 3 days...you lucky N$

What does that even mean, im lucky?

I mean really I come to this site to help others and to have discussions like this one and to learn things from other people. This is Discussbodybuilding.com, Not Letsagreeoneverything.com.

It really seems to bother you that we disagree and debate on things, not really sure why.

You also seem to really dislike Mark Rippetoe...whats the cause of this? Because a good protion of us think that StartingStrength is amazing for beginner trainee's?

I have always thought you really didnt like me posting here... could I be wrong, yeah. Do I think im wrong? not really.

Im not mad, im not angry, I have actually enjoyed this thread and it has stayed civil.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

I know I've stayed calm and on subject during this.

As far as where I got my info from, I'll post a link.

I'll go as far as saying Nic isn't the only one that got a little angry during this though.

Like I said, I'm not even going to contribute further.. if someone doesn't like being told they're wrong it's not worth arguing over.

I've said all I needed to say, and yes deadlifts are harder to keep form than 20 rep squats.. so are power cleans, explosiveness off the ground is much different - hence why "starting strength" has you doing 5 X 3 instead of 3 X 5.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

.

If prove my argument wrong I will gladly eat my words and admit your right. I will have learned something new, but until then you havent.

Deadlifts are harder to keep form. I never said they werent, but you act as if doing 20 rep squats are a walk in the park. And I am very well aware that cleans are usually done in singles, doubles or tripples.

This is going to have to be one of those Agree to disagree topics simply because there is no Deadlift vs squats study comparing the two.

MVP


I know I've stayed calm and on subject during this.

As far as where I got my info from, I'll post a link.

I'll go as far as saying Nic isn't the only one that got a little angry during this though.

Like I said, I'm not even going to contribute further.. if someone doesn't like being told they're wrong it's not worth arguing over.

I've said all I needed to say, and yes deadlifts are harder to keep form than 20 rep squats.. so are power cleans, explosiveness off the ground is much different - hence why "starting strength" has you doing 5 X 3 instead of 3 X 5.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Nm0ney34
What a lame excuse. As if high rep squats dont cause your form to slip either. Theres a reason people are scared to try 20 rep squats...

If you're saying that squats are better because there's a 20 rep squat program, that is what is lame.

Every magazine I have read regarding GH. Many articles online or on paper...yet I have never seen a study done stating deadlifts are number one.

Magazines???? You know better than that, I've also read in magazines I should do barbell curls each workout for  big arms, I can get abs in a week and I can eat all I want and still lose weight...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1860749

It offers NO proof dealdifts produce more GH then squats. It states Heavy resistance training in men and women. Nothing about which exercises they used in the study.

I opened that and read it... that says a completely different thing than the ones I've read, but don't worry, I'll post them. Regardless, saying because one movement produces more testosterone it's automatically a better mass builder is one-sided.

lol...ok well im going to make a poll...how about Hockey vs football. Then the winner of that poll will undisputedly be better then the other. Are you kidding me? this poll proves nothing but people migrating to the exercise that they can lift more, feel more comfortable with and execute easier.

Terrible comparison, people chose which they think they gained the most mass with... with your poll we'd only find out which one was more popular. Deadlifts aren't more popular than squats IMO. 

My point being, people favor leg press simply because you can load that much weight onto it. Go to your local gym and ask around...the results will be staggering. Then also ask how many people do squats...and if not why. Then take the people that said they squat, cut that number in half because half only do half squats.

That's lack of education. People do half squats mainly because their gym coaches put them up to it so he can say that his line backer squats 600lbs. People do that for egos and nothing more... I'd never go in a random gym and ask people something.

Again, which you cant use as proof something is better. Please refer to my previous explinations on why people would gravitate to the deadlift over the squat.

OK, you're referring to everything I say as opinion only... maybe true, but let's hear your facts on why squats are better?

Im not mad, im not angry, I have actually enjoyed this thread and it has stayed civil.

I know I've stayed civil, I say civil in all of my discussions when people end up getting angry and stuff that's usually a sign they run out of things to say and it's a usually good time to end the debate..  This discussion so far has been good, so I'm not going to post anymore in it.. I've said all I needed to say... we can go to page 20 on his and I guarantee you we'll repeat ourselves via quotes and we'll end up still disagreeing.

You seem to stand by your reasons N$ and that's cool... even if someone were to say a lateral raise were better for a squat you couldn't literally prove otherwise.. here's the thing though, continue doing whatever it is you find appropriate and we'll all continue making gains via separate paths, as long as we're making gains... what we're doing is working which shows more than one way works (I know no one in this discussion has said otherwise, but still).

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Here are a few links.

http://answers.yahoo.co...id=20090308181257AA2qQAr]

http://www.musclesweb.net/blog/

http://tnation.tmuscle....77.hydra?pageNo=0#bottom

http://www.exitjunction...1991%20Apr;12(2):228-35)

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

MVP


Here are a few links.

http://answers.yahoo.co...id=20090308181257AA2qQAr]

Yes. That is true, and is why many experienced lifters advise younger lifters to Squat.

"Resistance training in general, increases testosterone and growth hormone, during and immediately after post excercise. It has been shown in many studies, including a published study Int J Sports Med. 1991 Apr;12(2):228-35 done on both men and women during resistance excercise. and deadlifts increase GH and Testosterone, more than other compound excercises during excercise."

This is the same study you posted... with the same quote I asked where you got it from.


http://www.musclesweb.net/blog/

This has some good info, but nothing comparing deadlifts to squats. Its more of a FAQ/info for steroids.

http://tnation.tmuscle....77.hydra?pageNo=0#bottom

Squats and deadlifts (more than other exercises) cause a release of testosterone and growth hormone in the body during exercise, lasting until immediately afterward, then dissipating back to normal levels (Int J Sports Med. 1991 Apr;12(2):228-35). There isn't a lasting increase in these anabolic hormones (meaning, during periods of time where protein synthesis and muscle hypertrophy are actually occurring, anabolic hormone levels will be normal), and there have been no long-term studies on the affects of regular squatting and deadlifting in bodybuilders.

Nothing comparing the two.

http://www.exitjunction...1991%20Apr;12(2):228-35)

This one looks like a search engine result?

Just reiterating the same study you linked before, which I showed says nothing about the deadlift being superior to the squat in terms of GH and test. Your quote just seems to be from an article and is someones opinion, I cant find that quote anywhere in a study.

I really think the big difference between the squat producing more is due to the placement of the weight on the body/spine opposed to the floor. And how it targets the legs much more then deadlifts. Even sumo squats will target the posterior chain much more...and if you dont believe that, go do a few sets.

As stated in this thread on a previous page, the quadrceps are bigger then the hamstring. And the result in targeting the legs more, results in more GH.

As far as smoundzou, theres still plenty of people who have been training forever that will side with squats. Louie simmons comes to mind. Not to mention smoundzou said, thats how he feels this month...who knows what that could mean :P

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

I also read where Louie Simmons said if you want a big deadlift don't deadlift. Not taking anything away from him, but he's had some pretty weird suggestions before.

But if you open the first link, it was a quote from the article someone posting when giving advice to someone else.

The whole point of that study (from my understanding) was suppose to have been squats VS deadlifts.. if you read T-Nation one, it says something about neither release a lot of testosterone and as soon as it's released it stops as soon as you drop the weight and/or rack it, I don't believe that though..

I agree to disagree... lots of good information in this thread.. hopefully someone finds it beneficial.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

I based my decision on which one I would choose if that was the only exercise I could do. I think by doing deadlifts you could maintain a much more balance physique than by just doing squats and that is why I think overall it is the best exercise. At the same time squats are essential as well and should also be performed.

It is stupid to try and classify which one is best, I really do not see any point in doing so. You go to the gym, you do squats, you do deadlifts...why argue about which one is better when you can just do BOTH.

Nice post redjeep, I agree it is stupid to argue which is best, who really cares when you incorporate both.  Pretty pointless poll to be honest.  My question though if I was to get involved would be why do a lot of the pro powerlifters only deadlift close to once a month, and squat twice a week.

http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/Seos-Log-2008-m442008.aspx