So WHY cant you gain muscle and lose fat again?

Im a natural endomorph, and since ive been working out, ive become a mix of muscular and fat, but mostly muscular. I can hide all my fat deposits pretty well so that people just consider me a buff guy. But my diet has always been CRAP. I dont eat every 2 hours, and when I do eat, its pizza, chips, soda, etc.
 
But if I start eating every two hours, and start eating tuna, eggs, brown rice, spinach, whey shakes after a workout, and casein shakes at night, then wouldnt that make me gain even MORE muscle while at the same time losing fat? Im no longer eating crappy carbs and fats(losing fat), AND Im eating at the proper times to sustain muscle growth.(feeding muscles more properly).
 
So why do I hear that one cannot gain muscle and lose fat? How is my plan going to negatively affect me? Im starting my diet today. 

You do not just lose fat simply by eating healthier foods.  The better foods would most likely prevent you from putting on MORE fat but to lose fat you need to be in a caloric deficit.  If you eat all healthy food but you consume over your maintenance level you will still gain weight.

This is why we say that the two things are very hard to do together.  One reason being that to gain muscle you need to be in a caloric surplus (consuming more than you are burning).  Losing fat however is an opposing idea where you need to be an a caloric deficit (consuming less than you are burning).  It is obviously impossible to be in a deficit and a surplus at the same time.  This is the reason most people do a bulk phase and a cut phase.

Yes you need to be in a caloric deficit, but it does not have to come from eating less calories.
2 ways to create a caloric deficit:
1. Eat less calories and burn the same as before.
2. Eat more calories and burn off more than before.

Your body recognises when you eat less and will adapt by slowing down your metabolism over time. 
Your body DOES NOT know how many calories you are burning off and will not adapt to it other than eventually, when you are in better shape, you need to do more work in order to burn the same amount of calories.

Yes you can BURN FAT and BUILD MUSCLE at the same time, unless you are already really lean.
Create a caloric surplus by eating, then create the deficit by working it off.

Just a thought, you eat pizza chips and soda all tha time and call yourself an endomorph.  You could be an ecto and youd still be chunky with that diet.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

Im actually the worst natural bodytype out there. Im an ecto-endomorph. Meaning I had a very small, skinny outer frame but still had flab all around me. At least most fat guys are BIG. And at least most skinny guys are LEAN. Imagine being a shrimpy yet fat person. But working out has really changed my physique. Thanks for the info guys. Im more concerned with losing fat right now, even if at the expense for muscle. I hate how you cant have both...

Except for YOU Rollingstone.

dtes


Im actually the worst natural bodytype out there. Im an ecto-endomorph. Meaning I had a very small, skinny outer frame but still had flab all around me. At least most fat guys are BIG. And at least most skinny guys are LEAN. Imagine being a shrimpy yet fat person. But working out has really changed my physique. Thanks for the info guys. Im more concerned with losing fat right now, even if at the expense for muscle. I hate how you cant have both...

Except for YOU Rollingstone.

ok...

But yeah im gonna guess that youre not endomorphic then.  Its just your diet that made you flabby.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

Diet is far more important than most people realize, not to mention most people arent eating the calorie amount they think they are...

just sayin...

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

If you change from eating soda, chips, pizza, etc... and not working out to a lifestyle of heavy weight lifting, healthy eating (multiple small, healthy meals everyday), and possibly some cardio, you will lose fat and gain muscle. 
 
Don't worry about all this calorie counting stuff, seriously.  Using the scale to see if your weight is increasing or decreasing is all you need to know if you are eating excess calories or if you are on a deficit. 

Strict calorie counting may be useful for competitive bodybuilders trying to get to extremely low bodyfat %'s, but for the average person just trying to get into GREAT shape, heavy lifting and a healthy diet is all you need.  It's really very simple in theory, but actually disciplining yourself to do it is the hard part.

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117358

Because you cannot gain weight and lose weight at the same time.

Anabolic state vs. catabolic state.

Gaining size comes from excessive calories whilst losing fat comes from a deficient in calories. I don't see how you can have both at the same time.

You can get stronger while not reaching your recommended daily calories, I've done it hundreds of times before when I didn't know that food was the key to gaining size, but you cannot get bigger without meeting the calorie requirements.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

dtes


Im a natural endomorph, and since ive been working out, ive become a mix of muscular and fat, but mostly muscular. I can hide all my fat deposits pretty well so that people just consider me a buff guy. But my diet has always been CRAP. I dont eat every 2 hours, and when I do eat, its pizza, chips, soda, etc.
 
But if I start eating every two hours, and start eating tuna, eggs, brown rice, spinach, whey shakes after a workout, and casein shakes at night, then wouldnt that make me gain even MORE muscle while at the same time losing fat? Im no longer eating crappy carbs and fats(losing fat), AND Im eating at the proper times to sustain muscle growth.(feeding muscles more properly).
 
So why do I hear that one cannot gain muscle and lose fat? How is my plan going to negatively affect me? Im starting my diet today. 

I didn't read through the entire thread so someone may have already said this... but gaining muscle and losing fat isn't impossible, it's just very difficult for most to find the balanace.
 
You mentioned you have a good amount of lean muscle mass and some fat... if you eat fairly clean slighly above maintenance while at the same time doing some type of cardio, preferably some type that optimally burns fat such as tabata or hitt, it is possible to add muscle while burning unwanted fat. Problem being is most of use are unable to find this balance for many reasons, and once we do stumble upon the balance, most are not disiplined enough to stick with it for any length of time.  
 

 

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

MVP


Because you cannot gain weight and lose weight at the same time.

Anabolic state vs. catabolic state.

Gaining size comes from excessive calories whilst losing fat comes from a deficient in calories. I don't see how you can have both at the same time.

You can get stronger while not reaching your recommended daily calories, I've done it hundreds of times before when I didn't know that food was the key to gaining size, but you cannot get bigger without meeting the calorie requirements.

Adding lean muscle mass and losing fat isn't necessarily about gaining weight or losing weight...  If a person is capable of finding the balance, adding just enough calories to their diet to add lean mass while maintaining a solid workout.. it's possible for those excess cals that are being obsorbed to be turned into lean mass / minimal fat...  if combined with controlled cardio such as tabata, a type of cardio that naturally boosts the metabolism and optimally burns fat instead of carbs then it is possible.. but again very difficult to find or recognize the balance and even moreso diffult to keep it up once you've found it..
 
In short, it's a very slow process of adding mass.... and burning fat.  and hey, we're not about doing things the slow way.. we want 18in arms yesterday.. unfortunately, this technique isn't the way to achieve fast results..

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

smoundzou

Adding lean muscle mass and losing fat isn't necessarily about gaining weight or losing weight...  If a person is capable of finding the balance, adding just enough calories to their diet to add lean mass while maintaining a solid workout.. it's possible for those excess cals that are being obsorbed to be turned into lean mass / minimal fat...  if combined with controlled cardio such as tabata, a type of cardio that naturally boosts the metabolism and optimally burns fat instead of carbs then it is possible.. but again very difficult to find or recognize the balance and even moreso diffult to keep it up once you've found it..
 
In short, it's a very slow process of adding mass.... and burning fat.  and hey, we're not about doing things the slow way.. we want 18in arms yesterday.. unfortunately, this technique isn't the way to achieve fast results..

I  never said I didn't believe it was possible, just extremely difficult. But if you tell most people that they can do it, they will end up trying it and losing in the long run. Like you said as well, it's a much faster process to bulk then cut, not to mention- Bulking correctly can lead to minimal fat, especially if you have cardio in your bulking cycle. =)

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

So if it all comes down to calories, then eating 2000 calories worth of pizza is the same as 2000 calories worth of spinach? So If I eat 5000 calories of spinach every day, I'd get as fat as If i ate 5000 calories of PIZZA everyday? The numbers are obviously exaggerated, but you get what Im saying.

dtes


So if it all comes down to calories, then eating 2000 calories worth of pizza is the same as 2000 calories worth of spinach? So If I eat 5000 calories of spinach every day, I'd get as fat as If i ate 5000 calories of PIZZA everyday? The numbers are obviously exaggerated, but you get what Im saying.

no, fat storage is also effected by insulin.  If you eat foods that cause a higher insulin spike, more fat will be stored.  Also certain foods, like spinach would take more calories to digest than pizza so in reality 5000 calories of spinach and pizza would not even end in the same net calories.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

I think that the source of the calories is just as important as the amount of calories. While 2,000 calories is indeed 2,000 calories, if you get that 2,000 calories from simple sugars, candy, white bread, sugar filled cereals, etc, it will probably go to either immediate energy, or easy fat storage; if you get the 2,000 calories from oatmeal, eggs, chicken, and vegetables, etc, it won't be a sugar spike and it is much less likely to turn into fat.

Simply put: Pizza is white bread, burns fast, probably gives you a blood sugar spike and gets stored as fat. Eggs, lean chicken, and a small salad, is not going to give such a powerful sugar spike and is less likely to get stored as fat.

Energy spike vs energy endurance.

B/s, I looked up broccoli, I think it lowers estrogen levels... eat your vegetables.

Three week keto test run
Started July 19
It will work, or I'm done dieting.

The easiest way to put this in perspective, IMO, it to ask yourself "what does my body get from this food?"  Think of food as a fuel instead of just something to do with your spare time.  Reward yourself on occasion for "fueling" your body properly and the cheat meal will be alot more satisfying.
Food is fuel, nothing more, nothing less.
What do you think your engine runs better on?