Pullups isn't increasing at all???

Hi, I've been from strength routine and now doing an HST and just completed first week of 3x5 and going into second week.

Problem is that my chinup and pullup sucks. When doing the strength routine which consisted of doing chinups at the end of the workout I went from 4 to 8 only on the first set while the other 2 sets was like 3 or less always.

The point was 3 sets to failure after doing squat,oh or benchpress,deadlift or bb rows and one day dips and the other was chinups. (starting strength but 5x5)

Since I stopped and figured I can't do many for the 15 or 10 rep I decided to do lat pulldown and also give it a try since who knows maybe it might work for me while others say it won't help.

Sadly it didn't increase my chinup when it came to do 3x5 week. I've been doing it for the last 3 workouts and still got the same number except that I switched to pullup for the last workout and still got the same number 4 reps.

I don't know if doing it earlier will help or there is something I can do? I have increased my weight since I did 8 reps but that's only like about 10Lbs which most of it was muscle because of the HST.

I heard of the grease the groove method but I think that would get in my way with my other lifts since it means doing a bunch of it every day by doing 1 or 2 reps every time you feel like it in the day.

Anything I can do here??? It's funny that pullups is a good test of upper body strength and I'm not a good benchpresser (just barely did 155lbs 3x5)

My legs is the best thing of my body it grows easy and the deadlift and squat still always goes up every workout for me regardless how hard it was to do the workout before (squat 200Lbs 3x5 , deadlift 225Lbs 3x5 bodyweight=210Lbs 6'1ft) and the deadlift was a piece of cake!!!

Do negatives. Or do pullups before any other back exercise. For example: Squat/Bench/, Pullup, BBrow, whatever else your doing.

"A severed foot is the ultimate stocking-stuffer" "Obsession is what the LAZY use to describe dedication" "You put your faith in Christianity. I put mine in artillery"

i don't even like pull ups

Yep... Negatives and if you're doing HST.. start your workout with pullups before anything else.. or at least rotate them in where you start them on at least 1 or your weekly workouts.. it might hinder your other lifts but the benefits of the exercise makes it worth it...
 
boomersooner1331..... Don't like pullups?   Pullups / Chins are one of the most incredible back exercises anyone can do... 

ORIGINAL: Tommy_Boy420

Do negatives. Or do pullups before any other back exercise. For example: Squat/Bench/, Pullup, BBrow, whatever else your doing.

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

yeah man, besides deads pullups are the best back builder. not to mention your biceps too. I used to hate pullups also but once you finish a couple of sets and you feel jacked.

"A severed foot is the ultimate stocking-stuffer" "Obsession is what the LAZY use to describe dedication" "You put your faith in Christianity. I put mine in artillery"

I guess i'll try squats,pullups,benchpress,rows,oh press...

I have to do squats first since that requires too much from me but will pullups take away from my benchpress??? I still can't do many to even tire me out it's just that I'm not strong enough to do enough for it...

*EDIT* For the negative part should I do as many as I can and then do the negative like for example-

4 reps then 1 negative/2 reps then 3 negatives/2 reps then 3 negatives to complete the 3x5 for hst or it works best for higher reps on the negatives???

hmm.. this sounds just like the problem my workout partner had 3 or 4 months ago.  he could barely do 3 pullups on his own.

now he's doing 10+ on his own.  full ROM.  

just keep doing them.  it REALLY helps to have a spotter though that presses on your lower back lightly when you start to fail.  it just keeps you going.  rips those lats apart.

all i can say is.. stick with it.   and a workout partner/ spotter would help. 

My name is FOX.... and I approve this message.

Yea.. just do as many as possible and then immediatly do negatives.. if you have a training partner.. do as suggested above and get a spot.. either way will help increase your reps..

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

what do u suggest doing if the rep range is like 12 and u know u cant get that many?

im doing NROL and he says to do pull ups when possible but if u cant get the rep range then do pulldowns. well i suck at pull ups so that would basically mean always doing pulldowns. but i know pull ups are so much better. i'm not supposed to be going to failure that early on with NROL though.

Duke of the Emancipation Detoxification

Unfortunately this is one of the rules of NROL that I completely disagree with...
 
Pullups are just about the only exercise I would ever advocate going to failure on, on a regular basis..
 
this is my opion.. and many will probably disagree.... Limit the pulldowns to once a week.. when you do them.. go very heavy and don't worry about your form.. if needed, lean back and pull your ass off and try to use as much lat as possible.. focus on pulling with the elbows if that makes any sense.. Immediately afterwards.. lower the weight down to a reasonable amount and hit as many as you can with perfect form... do this 2-3 times..
 
In another post i made months ago.. i mentioned that sometimes it takes cheating in order to increase certain lifts.. Latpulls are one of those lifts..
 
The other days.. start your routine with pullups and do as many as you can.. once you've failed.. grab a stool, stand on it and do at leat 4-8 negatives.. as slow as poosible... Add to it each workout day...
 
If you like, you can do this every day, regardless of the muscle group you're training.. you'll never over-train your back doing pullups or negatives pullups..... FYI.. pullups with a pronated, (palms away) Grip.

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

Unfortunately this is one of the rules of NROL that I completely disagree with...

Pullups are just about the only exercise I would ever advocate going to failure on, on a regular basis..

this is my opion.. and many will probably disagree.... Limit the pulldowns to once a week.. when you do them.. go very heavy and don't worry about your form.. if needed, lean back and pull your ass off and try to use as much lat as possible.. focus on pulling with the elbows if that makes any sense.. Immediately afterwards.. lower the weight down to a reasonable amount and hit as many as you can with perfect form... do this 2-3 times..

In another post i made months ago.. i mentioned that sometimes it takes cheating in order to increase certain lifts.. Latpulls are one of those lifts..

The other days.. start your routine with pullups and do as many as you can.. once you've failed.. grab a stool, stand on it and do at leat 4-8 negatives.. as slow as poosible... Add to it each workout day...

If you like, you can do this every day, regardless of the muscle group you're training.. you'll never over-train your back doing pullups or negatives pullups..... FYI.. pullups with a pronated, (palms away) Grip.

how would u never overtrain ur back doing pull ups to failure and then negatives every day? i could see if that was all ur doing but not if ur doing that along with a full back routine and definitely not if ur doing multiple sets of the pull ups and negatives.
why would pull-ups be something u say to do to failure but not any other exercise?

Duke of the Emancipation Detoxification

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

Unfortunately this is one of the rules of NROL that I completely disagree with...

Pullups are just about the only exercise I would ever advocate going to failure on, on a regular basis..

Word.

For someone who can't do many pull-ups, I would suggest to switch to chin-ups and do 3 sets to failure until it gets better.

i tried increasing my pull ups a few months ago with multiple sets, negatives, etc... and it never really got anywhere unfortunately

i'd love to incorporate it into the NROL routine, i just dont see how i can do it and still follow the priciples and correct rep ranges. with the 3x5 i definitely will though

Duke of the Emancipation Detoxification

Just because you're following a particular rep range on a program doesn't mean you have to do that rep range for each and every lift.. follow the routine as it's called for only adjust the pulldowns and pullups.. If you do what I said above.. I will guarantee you that you're pullups will double within a few weeks.... that one adjustment isn't going to wreck your training program.. if anything it will help it..
 

ORIGINAL: David1991

i tried increasing my pull ups a few months ago with multiple sets, negatives, etc... and it never really got anywhere unfortunately

i'd love to incorporate it into the NROL routine, i just dont see how i can do it and still follow the priciples and correct rep ranges. with the 3x5 i definitely will though

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

Just because you're following a particular rep range on a program doesn't mean you have to do that rep range for each and every lift.. follow the routine as it's called for only adjust the pulldowns and pullups.. If you do what I said above.. I will guarantee you that you're pullups will double within a few weeks.... that one adjustment isn't going to wreck your training program.. if anything it will help it..

ORIGINAL: David1991

i tried increasing my pull ups a few months ago with multiple sets, negatives, etc... and it never really got anywhere unfortunately

i'd love to incorporate it into the NROL routine, i just dont see how i can do it and still follow the priciples and correct rep ranges. with the 3x5 i definitely will though

ok so u suggest i do pulldowns once a week and pull ups the rest?
it rotates between upper and lower so i'd only be doing pullups/pulldowns 1-2 times a week.
i think it would be best to do pull-ups every 5x5 and then i guess every other 4x10. what do u think?

Duke of the Emancipation Detoxification

For once.. just give something a try without trying to dissect it to death... if you want your pullups to increase.. just trust me and do it for two weeks.. and stop worrying about over-training.. I'm 45 years old.. and do pullups almost every day of the week and pound my back at least 3 X's a week until I feel like I'm going to die.. and I've never had an issue with over-training.. those two words should never be used together...
 
I promose I'm not part of some underground conspiracy to induce over-training on young unsuspecting weightlifters..
 
In the short time I've been on this board if I had a dollar for everytime someone posts they're worried about over-training.. I could retire....

ORIGINAL: David1991

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

Unfortunately this is one of the rules of NROL that I completely disagree with...

Pullups are just about the only exercise I would ever advocate going to failure on, on a regular basis..

this is my opion.. and many will probably disagree.... Limit the pulldowns to once a week.. when you do them.. go very heavy and don't worry about your form.. if needed, lean back and pull your ass off and try to use as much lat as possible.. focus on pulling with the elbows if that makes any sense.. Immediately afterwards.. lower the weight down to a reasonable amount and hit as many as you can with perfect form... do this 2-3 times..

In another post i made months ago.. i mentioned that sometimes it takes cheating in order to increase certain lifts.. Latpulls are one of those lifts..

The other days.. start your routine with pullups and do as many as you can.. once you've failed.. grab a stool, stand on it and do at leat 4-8 negatives.. as slow as poosible... Add to it each workout day...

If you like, you can do this every day, regardless of the muscle group you're training.. you'll never over-train your back doing pullups or negatives pullups..... FYI.. pullups with a pronated, (palms away) Grip.

how would u never overtrain ur back doing pull ups to failure and then negatives every day? i could see if that was all ur doing but not if ur doing that along with a full back routine and definitely not if ur doing multiple sets of the pull ups and negatives.
why would pull-ups be something u say to do to failure but not any other exercise?

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

For once.. just give something a try without trying to dissect it to death... if you want your pullups to increase.. just trust me and do it for two weeks.. and stop worrying about over-training.. I'm 45 years old.. and do pullups almost every day of the week and pound my back at least 3 X's a week until I feel like I'm going to die.. and I've never had an issue with over-training.. those two words should never be used together...

I promose I'm not part of some underground conspiracy to induce over-training on young unsuspecting weightlifters..

In the short time I've been on this board if I had a dollar for everytime someone posts they're worried about over-training.. I could retire....

lmao, i trust ur advice and im not worried about overtraining...im just worried about changing it because i figure it would be best to try a routine how im supposed to and then from there make changes as i see fit.

Duke of the Emancipation Detoxification

I typed that in about 30 seconds and after reading it again, realized I sounded like a smartass..... My bad...
 
but yes.. just do the pulldowns with heavy weight followed by medium weight perfect form and at least 3-4 other days weekly do as many pullups as you can and then another 4-8 negatives... if you do that.. you'll have some good over-all strength gains and your pullups will shoot up like crazy..
 
Pullups demand many muscles and incorporate stabilizers like crazy.. you'll never over-train your back doing them.. Over-training the back is nearly impossible anyway.. give it a shot for a few weeks and let me know how it goes..

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

I typed that in about 30 seconds and after reading it again, realized I sounded like a smartass..... My bad...

but yes.. just do the pulldowns with heavy weight followed by medium weight perfect form and at least 3-4 other days weekly do as many pullups as you can and then another 4-8 negatives... if you do that.. you'll have some good over-all strength gains and your pullups will shoot up like crazy..

Pullups demand many muscles and incorporate stabilizers like crazy.. you'll never over-train your back doing them.. Over-training the back is nearly impossible anyway.. give it a shot for a few weeks and let me know how it goes..

oh so u think i should do it more than just the NROL workouts have?
i know this will get my pull ups higher, good endurance with them, so hopefully that will give me more growth in my back too since thats the main reason i workout (hypertrophy)

anyway could u give me an example of how i would do this in a given week
as in....


monday:
tuesday: NROL A
wednesday:
thursday: NROL B
friday:
saturday: NROL A
sunday:

and just throw in when and how much pull ups i would do. ur saying to do this in addition to my normal workouts even the back workouts right?

Duke of the Emancipation Detoxification

there was a guy i met 2 years ago.  bodybuilder in his late 20's.  i overheard him explaining how he got his very large lats.  he was saying that when he works his back, he does 50 pullups.

not necessarily 50 pullups in a row, but as many as it takes to get to 50.  it might be 10 reps, then 6 reps, 4 reps, 3 reps, 3 reps, 3 reps, 2 reps, 1 rep... etc.  you see my point.  (until you reach 50.  50 pullups TOTAL)

I tried his technique, and it worked.  my pullups went up, and of course.. my lats grew.  Eventually i started adding some weight to a belt when i did pullups for 1 or 2 sets of my total 50 pullups. 

My name is FOX.... and I approve this message.

Here's an example

monday: Pullups, 2 sets to failure  then 2 X 4-8 Negatives

tuesday: NROL A  2 sets to failure  then 2 X 4-8 Negatives

wednesday: Pullups, 2 sets to failure then 2 X 4-8 Negatives

thursday: NROL B: superset the following 2 X's:  Lat Pulls: 1X? about 20lbs over your 10RM..don't worry about form, lean back as far as you have to.. it still works the lats and various other muscles... then drop the weight by 30% and do 1X10 perfect form. that's one set... then repeat 1 more time. after you finish the set of 10 lite reps.. you should be burning and sweating.. if not.. the weight was too light.. add more to the heavy set... 

friday: Pullups, 2 sets to failure  then 2 X 4-8 Negatives

saturday: NROL A 2 sets to failure  then 2 X 4-8 Negatives
sunday:

it might look bad but it's not.. you'll adapt.. and if you do it for several weeks.. you'll see some incredible progress on your pullups..

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

So int he case with me I shouldn't go by the 3 sets of 5 reps when doing pullups like the rest of my exercises for HST.

my workout is mon,fri- squat,bench,pullup,rows,oh press
                   wed- deadlift,bench,pullup,rows,oh press

The other 4 days I don't do anything but sit on my ass all day. So should I do 2-3 sets as many as I can every day then do like 4-8 negatives???

I don't do anything that requires my body but the workouts and my off days don't do anything so it's not a bda idea to do it everyday???
        

If you want.. you can do pullups 7 days a week.. the worse thing that's going to happen is you're  going to get stronger.. and have an incedible back..
 
I do pullups at least 6 days a week.. sometimes 7 and have never had an issue..

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

Here's an example

monday: Pullups, 2 sets to failure  then 2 X 4-8 Negatives

tuesday: NROL A  2 sets to failure  then 2 X 4-8 Negatives

wednesday: Pullups, 2 sets to failure then 2 X 4-8 Negatives

thursday: NROL B: superset the following 2 X's:  Lat Pulls: 1X? about 20lbs over your 10RM..don't worry about form, lean back as far as you have to.. it still works the lats and various other muscles... then drop the weight by 30% and do 1X10 perfect form. that's one set... then repeat 1 more time. after you finish the set of 10 lite reps.. you should be burning and sweating.. if not.. the weight was too light.. add more to the heavy set... 

friday: Pullups, 2 sets to failure  then 2 X 4-8 Negatives

saturday: NROL A 2 sets to failure  then 2 X 4-8 Negatives
sunday:

it might look bad but it's not.. you'll adapt.. and if you do it for several weeks.. you'll see some incredible progress on your pullups..

ok looks good. i just realized it's 4x a week i'm working out but that shouldnt change much

so basically i'm doing the 2xfailure then 2 sets of negatives 5x a week, doing the lat pull down 1x a week, and resting one day right? i assume im starting with 4 negatives and increasing from there.....

also is this in addition to my other back work?
Workout A back work is 
1. Lat pulldown
2. Seated cable row
3. Chin-up or bent-over DB row (i'd do the row im sure)

so i would replace the pulldowns with ur plan and still do the rest?

Duke of the Emancipation Detoxification

ok thanks the days i'm not in the gym I just jump onto whatever is in my house like I normally do not as great as the bar but almost as good.

smoundzou i'm sorry but i really dont understand this.

How can u work a muscle 6x a week and not have that be too much? especially in addition to to doing deadlifts and rows 1-2x a week and doing the pullups to failure, then negatives when u cant do anymore. its so much intensity so frequenty.
if someone started saying to do that for bench everyone would say how much overtraining that was.
I'm not trying to argue, it just makes no sense to me that this would be more productive than something like New Rules of Lifting lays out.

Here are six excellent ways to improve your chin ups.

Strategies for More Reps from Your Pull-ups

Marc C. David - NGA CPT
Author of NoBull Bodybuilding
www.nobullbodybuilding.com

If a person is using a weight belt and putting 50lbs on it and doing pullups daily for multiple sets then you might eventually run into a problem but for someone who can do few pullups, doing them everyday weightless will not cause over-training.. just as a person can do 100 plus pushups daily and then train their chest without having issues with over-training.  

Clarification:  There is a huge difference between doing a bodyweight exercises 7 days per week and doing a weighted bar lift 7 days per week.  (in reply to your comment on bench pressing) 


And besides.. you should stop listening to everyone and listen to your body.  Your body will let you know when you need to stop an exercise far better than someone on a forum.


Most body weight exercises can be performed daily without issues, regardless of training routine you're doing them with.

Regarding over-training.... people worry way to much about over-training.

It kinda reminds me of newbs who come into the gym and say.. " I don't want to lift much weight cause I'm affraid I'll get too big"...  YEA.. OK! That has to be my all time favorite saying.. 

ORIGINAL: pumped340

smoundzou i'm sorry but i really dont understand this.

How can u work a muscle 6x a week and not have that be too much? especially in addition to to doing deadlifts and rows 1-2x a week and doing the pullups to failure, then negatives when u cant do anymore. its so much intensity so frequenty.
if someone started saying to do that for bench everyone would say how much overtraining that was.
I'm not trying to argue, it just makes no sense to me that this would be more productive than something like New Rules of Lifting lays out.

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

 ..

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

sorry smoundzou, just clarifying because i dont know if u saw it, do i do this in addition to my normal back workout and just replace the first back exercise if i'm working back that day with the pull-ups?
Workout A back work is 
1. Lat pulldown
2. Seated cable row
3. Chin-up or bent-over DB row (i'd do the row im sure)

so i would replace the pulldowns with ur plan and still do the rest?

Duke of the Emancipation Detoxification