Soccerking3000

JMBS


Isn't it wise to let prevention of injury trump better muscle development?  I think I'll stick with the EZ bar.

yes it is but in this case there is no better muscle development

I'm happy with my arms so that's all I need.  EZ ftw!

Soccerking3000


fully supinating your wrists does not engage bicep any more than a slightly neutral grip position.  The bicep brachii in itself is a supinator and by holding the bar at a slight angle (which helps the wrists and actually the rotator cuff because you are no longer externally rotating you shoulder) you are forcing the bicep to attempt to supinate your hand more than it is which will put just as much if not more tension on the muscle because it is trying to preform two movements at once.  Now as your grip continues to move more neutral you become stronger as the brachioradialis becomes more engaged hence hammer curls usually being much stronger than a standard curl.  The straight bar has absolutely not benefit over a slightly neutral grip.

^ This.

The primary function of the bicep is to flex the elbow, if the elbow is flexed the biceps contracted and did the work.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

I dont know how you can say this is true or conclude the ez curl bar is better. And what does the rotator cuff have to do with your bicep curls, in proper curls you shouldnt be moving or keeping your shoulder involvement to a minimum. Usually people involve their shoulders in the lift when it is too much weight.

You can even see for yourself that fully supinating the forearms contracts the biceps more. Just sit in your chair and do it with no weight. Put your other hand on your bicep to feel whats going on.

The ez bar simply makes it easier on the wrists, but sacrifices contraction. I am also under the belief that hammer curls just dont isolate the bicep as optimally as say a supinated forearm curl because of the overall involvement of the biceps.

Soccerking3000


fully supinating your wrists does not engage bicep any more than a slightly neutral grip position.  The bicep brachii in itself is a supinator and by holding the bar at a slight angle (which helps the wrists and actually the rotator cuff because you are no longer externally rotating you shoulder) you are forcing the bicep to attempt to supinate your hand more than it is which will put just as much if not more tension on the muscle because it is trying to preform two movements at once.  Now as your grip continues to move more neutral you become stronger as the brachioradialis becomes more engaged hence hammer curls usually being much stronger than a standard curl.  The straight bar has absolutely not benefit over a slightly neutral grip.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Using a straight bar probably does isolate the biceps more, BUT... it seems to me to be a very un-natural move.  A more pronated wrist is more in line with the way the body was designed to work, don't you think?  Do any natural movement with the arms, lifting or pulling.  It's a rare situation where the wrists are fully supinated, isn't it?  And a more pronated wrist works the brachialis and brachioradialis as well:  very desirable.  Big bi's at the expense of those smaller muscles would be a shame, imo.  Thoughts?

but your doing an isolation to target the biceps...why in the world would you not want to optimally stimulate them?

as far as un-natural...I dont think so, if that were the case straight bar curls would get the same bad rap as upright rows. We as humans carry objects like that often enough I wouldnt call it unnatural.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

I'm just saying pick something up or pull on something and see how often you find yourself in a fully supinated grip.  I know what you're saying:  If you're a hardcore BBer and wanting to laser in on the bicep then straight bar curls are your man.  Getting even more specific, you can vary grip width to isolate each of the two heads of the bicep.  I'm just saying, functionally and aesthetically on more of a wide angle, ez curls will help the rest of the upper and lower arm, and perhaps spare the RC or wrists if you're a little ambitious with the weight.

well Im no hardcore body builder, im just in the mindset of if im going to do something as useless as a bicep isolation then im going to at least do it optimally.

The RC shouldnt be a problem, if proper form is exercised then your shoulders should have minimal involvement. and if your doing a weight that your using your shoulders/body to sway it up, you shouldnt be doing that weight in the first place.

I really dont understand what you guys are basing this off of...I would like to see some studys or even read some articles expressing your point of view on how a more neutral grip is just as beneficial as a fully supinated one.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

I don't think I've read anywhere that a more neutral grip is just as beneficial.  I, like you, understand that the fully supinated grip isolates the biceps the best as far as bb curls go.  You may be able to isolate even better w/conentration curls where you focus on one arm at a time.  I have read that for people (more commonly women) with a considerable valgus angle (angle between upper and lower arms when fully extended and supinated, presumably to accomodate for wider hips than men), that a more pronated grip (using EZ bar) compensates for for wrist strain because those people do not have straight arms.

right, theres no disputing the ezbar was created to make the exercise easier on the wrists. Thats exactly what it does. I remember back when I first started working out doing fully supinated curls hurt because I wasnt used to having my forearms supinated like that, that often.

the point im trying to make is your gaining this wrist comfortableness in exchange for optimal bicep contraction. and im not saying the ez bar is terrible either, I just feel that if im going to be doing bicep curls, i will do them optimally. I would rather, and I would rather advise people to just man up and adapt to the discomfort for awhile. Then to be stuck doing an exercise with a sub-optimal piece of equipment.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

But would a DB concentration curl not be better at isolation anyway?  I mean if you're going for optimal, you're not limited to barbells.  You've got cables too.  My gym doesn't even have a 25 lb straight bar.  If I want to do straight bar, I'm using a 45 lb Olympic.  I will say that looks pretty manly!

I would got for the curl bar but I only have the straight bar so I pretty much do not have the choice.

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