Please help, routine to get bigger

ORIGINAL: deadlysuperstar

That's great for you. I can assure you that your biceps and traps aren't anywhere near as big as mine. Skip the isos all you want, you & your friends make guys like me look that much bigger. I'm not bragging either, but no pain, no gain.

Like I said, I don't know what happened on this board, but it got infected with the "don't do anything in the gym and you'll grow bigger than ever" bug. Definitely gives guys like me who put in work, the advantage. Thanks to everyone who just stopped working out and claim to get all these incredible gains. Bicep curls and shrugs are overtraining, you won't get gains from them. 

   Just cause your big doesn't mean you know what you're talking about so stop bringing it up. It might mean youo know What works best for you, or it could just mean you have better genetics and most stuff will work for you.
 
   Ever notice how big Johnnie Jackson's traps are? Well I thought I'd let you know he's bigger and stronger than you and he never does isolation movements for his traps.
 

If it wasn't painfully difficult then you didn't do it right

age:18
5' 81/2"
173 lbs
goal : 195


supplements: Multi, fish oil

Just have a good balance of isos and compounds.

ORIGINAL: deadlysuperstar

Boomer, I said "Eat like a champion" in my post. Food is very important.

ORIGINAL: HEARTS

     I don't think lacking iso's is a problem at all. I very rarely do isolation exercises and since I cut them out my gains have increased. I've recommended cutting out isos to friends too and they have seen better results. And my calves never got any bigger until I stopped doing isolation exercises for them. Your bi's will grow w/o doing curls. your traps will grow w/o doing shrugs.
  Deadlifts will make your traps grow, pulllups and most back exercises will hit your bi's hard enough.
   I see avoiding Isos as a good idea because the more muscles you hit with one move the better because you will have a better response to the workout. Pullups will increas gh and test more than curls. Squats will make your legs(and entire body) grow faster than leg extensions and leg curls ever could.  Compound lifts will always cause more of an anabolic response than any isolation lift.
    I don't remember the last time I worked out my abs but I have an 8 pack. Don't remember the last time the last time I did curls or tricep extensions but my arms are growing at the same rate everything else is.
     I'm not saying Isoloation movements are a waste but compounds are going to work better for more people.
     I do strongly agree with you about changing things up.
    
     Also I don't like A/B routines. Yeah, it works but everything does whey your young. SOmething could work better.
    

That's great for you. I can assure you that your biceps and traps aren't anywhere near as big as mine. Skip the isos all you want, you & your friends make guys like me look that much bigger. I'm not bragging either, but no pain, no gain.

Like I said, I don't know what happened on this board, but it got infected with the "don't do anything in the gym and you'll grow bigger than ever" bug. Definitely gives guys like me who put in work, the advantage. Thanks to everyone who just stopped working out and claim to get all these incredible gains. Bicep curls and shrugs are overtraining, you won't get gains from them. 

 
are you over 20 inches?
 
what makes you think that people on this board have the "don't do anything, and grow" mentality?  i haven't seen that....

Laughable, eh?
My workout is closer to what pro-BBers do and I'm not injecting anything. Likewise, I'm the most massive member of this board.

yes, I did find it laughable.  Although you may follow the structure of how a pro trains, doesn't mean it's going to be what's best for the majority of young lifters who follow your advice because your a pro wrester, have purple hair and act like a bad ass. 
 
In regards to being the most massive member of this board.. I'm not going to deny that you've put in a lot of hard work and seem to have a passion for what you do. But I found that statement to be just a little conceited and frankly, I beleive their are several people on this board who for their size, have considerable more muscle development than you. 
 

What's laughable is all these people with these kung pao kid workouts which are nothing close to resembling a pro BBer workout and likewise, they're not scaring any kids at the mall or like me at the San Diego County Fair last night where every carny with a "skill" game yelling, "Hey steroid guy / incredible hulk / Mr. WWF, come win something for your chick" at me.

 
 
I'm not sure what a kung pao kid workout is but if you're referring to a structured routine that has a progressive load then yes, you're correct.  It doesn't resemble a pro bber's routine, as it shouldn't. As far as you scaring kids at the fair... I can see that.. you'd scare me....but I fail to see the relevance of that statement.
 

I'm not being ****y, but all these gimmick workouts are garbage and focusing on "adding weight each week" makes no sense because once the newbie gains stop, it takes time or a boost in supplementation to continue to make linear gains.

I will agree that there are some gimmick workouts floating around this site but, as there are on any BBing site.  But I am confused with your persistence to dissmiss the fact that adding weight to a workout if foolishness?  You seem to be convinced that a person is only able to continue a progressive load as a newbie, which is simply not true.  A person can continue to use a progressive load training for years.
 
Hypertrophy training doesn't require a trainee to go to failure. All that is required is for the muscle to be damaged from the workout and then the body must have a sufficient caloric intake in order for the muscle to grow. In order for this to be done optimally, the muscle only needs a small amount of micro damage in order to grow and the smart way of training for hyperophy would be to do as little as possible in order to keep this progression going.  There's absolutely no need to try and put 10 gallons of gas in a 5 gallon tank.  The other 5 gallons is simply wasted.. The same with training the muscles for hypertrophy.. Sure, you can do 6 sets of flat bench but once the micro damage is achieved, you're simply wasting your time... Remember, the OP's questions was about getting bigger, not strength training.
 

Hit all muscle groups. Hit them with both compound and iso exercises. Lift so heavy that your sets range from 4-8 (sometimes up to 12 depending on the exercise) reps to failure. Do enough sets, how many that is will be based on your own unique genetics. Eat like a champion. Be more intense than the guy with the better physique.

 
I agree with hit all muscle groups and lift heavy... I do disagree with reps to failure.. if training for hypertrophy, the trainee should have a goal of going to positive failure as they near the end of a particular training cycle. If a trainee lifts 200lbs one day, and then lifts 210lbs the next.. The muscle doesn't think, I'm only lifting 210lbs but I'm capable of lifting 300lbs.. it only know's it's been stimulated with a greater load and it will respond accordingly if the proper nutrients are supplied to it.
 
Regarding Isolations... I have no issues with doing isolations when needed.  But a 5'8 135lbs trainee with little muscle mass would be far better severed doing basic compound lifts and working the entire body in a functional manner.  It's basically impossible to isolate rear delts, triceps and various other muscles.. Although it is possible to do certain exercises that might add a little more stimulation to a muscle that has 2 or 3 heads.. but frankly, unless that muscle is already well developed, the stimulation it receives from a solid compound lift is going to provide better development not to mention that fact that doing compound lifts stimulate GH releases..
 
As far as a trainee only being able to do a progressive type routine until the newbie gains stop and then needing to lift to failure and use various supplements in order to keep having progress... That my friends is also very laughable.. and I find it hard to beleive that someone at your level of developement and obvious training ability would even type that out.. 
 
If someone has trained hard and solid for 5-10 years and are seriously considering a career as a pro BBer, then yes, it might be a consideration for them to look into other options that might help them make progressive lean muscles gains.. But for the average person on this board who is attending high school or a university.. or even people like myself who are middle aged and have no intentions of ever being a pro athlete or competitive lifter / bber... it's simply not the best path to take.. and there are very resonable ways a trainee can continue to make hypertrophy gains without risk of injury or using certain types of supplementation..
 
Beginner, intermediate................................... ADVANCED.......PRO.. BIG DIFFERENCE...
Most who consider themself as advanced are very mistaken.

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

ORIGINAL: deadlysuperstar

ORIGINAL: boomersooner1331

are you over 20 inches?

what makes you think that people on this board have the "don't do anything, and grow" mentality?  i haven't seen that....

Actually I am over 20 inches, 20.25 inches. I just measured this morning. Getting arms over 20 inches on a 6-and-a-half foot frame is geometrically more difficult than it is for anyone in the sub 6' range.

As for the "do nothing and expect all these gains" workouts, well just look around. I've seen quite a few workouts and quite a few supporters of these workouts where you just do the basics. That isn't gonna turn anyone into a monster, if it did, when you walk into the gym you'd see nothing but jackked beasts in there but for the most part, that is NEVER the case.

that is an accomplishment.  I'm 6'2, and i'm getting there too.  (and i'm only 17)

I agree with you on that last part, i think that's a perfect line. "That isn't gonna turn anyone into a monster, if it did, when you walk into the gym you'd see nothing but jackked beasts in there but for the most part, that is NEVER the case." 

And i agree 100%. 

ORIGINAL: deadlysuperstar

If that's you in your avatar, you're miles ahead of the game. You look jakked as all Hell.

When I was your age, I was 6'4½", 170lbs. I looked like a lawn dart and I was the San Diego County CIF High Jump Champion, if that tells you how pathetic my physique was, but hey, everybody's gotta start somewhere.

i've been working out since i was about 13 or 14, and always followed a strict schedule and all that.  compared to everyone else my age, i do know what i'm doing, and what's going on.

but you're right, everyone has to start somewhere.  i used to be the FAT kid in middle school.......

ORIGINAL: trubeginner

ORIGINAL: Beefcake

How come you are only doing 5 to 6 reps for size on some excercises?

I see what you're saying.

5 reps is the amount of reps which combines the package of strength and size.
One might argue that 5 is a low number, and emphasizes more on strength. However, from what I have experienced, as long as the workout is intense, and micro damage to the muscle is done, doing sets of 5 will work just fine.

 
Actualy when you do heavy sets of low reps, your nervous system is going to crap out alot faster than your muscles so you arent working as manyfibers as possible which is neccessary for adding size.

17 years old
180 pounds

dirty bulk= fail
X-repper forever

On the race to 190 and 17 inch arms

I don't care if you mistake confidence for conceitedness. It's also easier for a shorter guy to have more muscle development than someone my height. It's harder for someone my height to get to my size than it is for someone 5'10".

Bottom line is, you can try to downplay me all you want. I could care less. All of you who are just screennames and no photos and claim to be gurus have no effect on my opinions.

No one is arguing that fact that it's much more difficult for a taller person to gain mass such as yourself, but with that said, it greatly depends on body type and not height alone. I can't speak for everyone on this board but I have never tried to down play you or anyone else. And regarding the guru's??? I"m not sure who your talking about cause I've never seen any regular member on this board state they are or even pretend to be a guru..

And there's a huge difference between confidence and making pompas statements like you have made in several of the posts in this thread.

My last word on this thread is this:

1. If you want to become a monster, well even as a beginner, you need to learn all the exercises and lift heavy.

2. You need to develop good habits from the start, so it makes no sense just to do 6-7 exercises for your entire body.

3. Unless you know pro or semi-pro bodybuilders, don't come on here saying "Have you seen [enter BBer's name here]? Well he does this". I know tons of bodybuilders, and yes, lots of WWE Superstars are considered bodybuilders even if they aren't hypertrophied to the point they can't wipe their own ass, and I know this for a bona-fide fact-

A LOT OF BBERS LIE ABOUT THEIR WORKOUTS & THEIR DIETS. THEY DON'T WANT TO TRAIN THEIR FUTURE COMPETITION BY SHOWING ALL THE CARDS THEY'RE HOLDING.

You see Jay Cutler in those ads for those Anator p70 or whatever supps he endorses? You think he takes that stuff? NO. So why would the workouts or diets he has listed be any more reliable? Ok then.

I speak from experience and from what I know from BBers I know personally. If anyone has a problem with my opinions, well good for you. Go eat an apple and spit it at your computer screen for all I care. Nothing you say will make me change my opinion, and your opinions so far have been based on what you've read in magazines or are coming from people who don't post pix of their physique but are quick to trash someone like me who posts my pics.

If any 18-19yo's out there do nothing but 8-10 sets of compound exercises and look like monsters, or continually add more weight to their exercises for years and years in a linear progression without hitting any plateaus, post your pix.

The end. 

Your statement about being a monster.. Learn all the exercises and lift heavy, learn good habids and how it doesn't make sense to do only 7-8 exercises for the entire body...
Let me start by addressing your previous statement that seemed to inspire Boomersooner...

The reason most people you see at the gym aren't big and ripped isn't because they're doing a structured routine and following a proper diet.. it's because they're following the philosophy you've been spreading in this thread.. they go to the gym for a few months.. walk around lifting weights that are far too heavy for them and doing pointless isolation exercises to failure. After a few weeks, maybe a a few months they usually end up getting injured or just quit due to lack of results.. Now that's the real truth..

IMO it's just the opposite of what you said.. If all someone had to do to get big and ripped is go to the gym 5 days a week and lift to failure (someothing most newbs do) almost anyone would be able to do that.. but unfortunately, it's a bit more complicated than just lifting to failure each and every time you workout..

In reference to the pro bbers and muscle comics.. I'm not sure who you're suggesting reads that trash but it's not me. And I think most here are very aware that all the pro's who are sponsored by supplement companies are only doing it for the money..

and as far as the pro's not sharing their training routines.. That's funny.. Most of the top pro's are friends, and they have no mystical magic training secrets they're trying to hide from each other.. I think we all know how they've managed to get to such a size that they can no longer wipe their own ass.. (nice one, If it's OK, I'd like to use that in the future)

And you're right about some of the WWE guys being body builders.. I'm not sure what was said that made you feel the need to throw that comment out, as if someone was trying to dispute that fact.. but I worked closely with WWE for several years and at one point was in their office on a weekly basis.. I still have relationships with several of their executives and have even had the pleasure of training on a few occations with some of their tallent.  Maybe you felt the need to throw that comment out because you felt my comment about you was in some way trashing the industry but if that's the case.. took it the wrong way.. I have a tremendous amount of respect for everyone involved with that company.

You can try to dispute the facts all you like, but I can certainly assure you and anyone else on this board that going to a gym and lifting to failure each and every time you train in doing nothing but leading to a dead end.  If you're lucky and able to do it for any length of time without injury, you'll grow if you're eating right.. but the chances are very slim..  Again, I think isolations are great.. if needed but for most beginners and intermediate lifters.. which is about 80% of the training population.. they're not needed in order to grow. Improper use of Isolation exercises are partly responsible for many begining lifters having imbalances which is another factor that can lead to injury later down the road.

The End.....

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

ORIGINAL: HEARTS

ORIGINAL: deadlysuperstar

That's great for you. I can assure you that your biceps and traps aren't anywhere near as big as mine. Skip the isos all you want, you & your friends make guys like me look that much bigger. I'm not bragging either, but no pain, no gain.

Like I said, I don't know what happened on this board, but it got infected with the "don't do anything in the gym and you'll grow bigger than ever" bug. Definitely gives guys like me who put in work, the advantage. Thanks to everyone who just stopped working out and claim to get all these incredible gains. Bicep curls and shrugs are overtraining, you won't get gains from them. 

  Just cause your big doesn't mean you know what you're talking about so stop bringing it up. It might mean youo know What works best for you, or it could just mean you have better genetics and most stuff will work for you.

  Ever notice how big Johnnie Jackson's traps are? Well I thought I'd let you know he's bigger and stronger than you and he never does isolation movements for his traps.



He also injected himself with pure testosterone above and beyond.

Name:Corey 
Age:18
Supplements: Whey, Creatine, Multi Vit, Fish Oil
Weight:182 Height:5'8
Bench:245
Squat:305
DeadLift:275

 
 
   I agree with smoundzou. The new guys you see walking around the gym that never get anywhere are generally doing isolation movements for chest and bi's. They do benchpress too. These are the fools you seel walking around with their shoulders pulled forward because they never do back workouts and if they do its without effort. The same goes for the guys with skinny legs and big upper bodies. they abuse isolation movements. Being as Jacked Dude probably not an advanced bodybuilder I don't think his workout lacking isolation movements is a problem. Ia ctually think its a plus. 
   Compound movements are going to cause your body to release more GH and more testoserone, than a set of bicep curls.
 

If it wasn't painfully difficult then you didn't do it right

age:18
5' 81/2"
173 lbs
goal : 195


supplements: Multi, fish oil

JEEZ
I'm getting so sick and tired of people trashing isolation exercises on this board. Some of you guys act as if a single bicep curl will shrink half of your gains away in an instant. I honestly think its just something to argue about.LOL!
 
Sure ...you don't want beginners running around the gym doing nothing but preachers and kickbacks....I get that...and agree 100%. I don't think anyone has ever advocated an "ISO ONLY" routine to a beginner ( or anyone for that matter).
 
However, isolation exercises...when incorporated with compound(Oh god yes....compound exercises...the holy grail of hypertrophy...HeHeH...) will not...I repeat NOT Hamper or take away your hard earned muscle. I do incorporate compounds and iso's in my training and I continue to get great gains...even at the age of 44...when test levels are starting to wane...so I think the "hazards of iso's" are about as overstated as the hazards of Overtraining....HaHa...The human body is a wonderful,and amazing thing...It adapts and has no way of knowing whether microtears in the muscle came from curls or a pull up.
 
OK...I'm off my soapbox....Iso's will not kill your gains....Compounds should be the staple of your routines,however,throwing in an Isolation move ortwo is not going to magically erase all the work you've done.

Current Stack: HDROL,Celltech,Superpump 250, Glutamine,Beta alanine,Whey protein.

ORIGINAL: bulkingup

JEEZ
I'm getting so sick and tired of people trashing isolation exercises on this board. Some of you guys act as if a single bicep curl will shrink half of your gains away in an instant. I honestly think its just something to argue about.LOL!

Sure ...you don't want beginners running around the gym doing nothing but preachers and kickbacks....I get that...and agree 100%. I don't think anyone has ever advocated an "ISO ONLY" routine to a beginner ( or anyone for that matter).

However, isolation exercises...when incorporated with compound(Oh god yes....compound exercises...the holy grail of hypertrophy...HeHeH...) will not...I repeat NOT Hamper or take away your hard earned muscle. I do incorporate compounds and iso's in my training and I continue to get great gains...even at the age of 44...when test levels are starting to wane...so I think the "hazards of iso's" are about as overstated as the hazards of Overtraining....HaHa...The human body is a wonderful,and amazing thing...It adapts and has no way of knowing whether microtears in the muscle came from curls or a pull up.

OK...I'm off my soapbox....Iso's will not kill your gains....Compounds should be the staple of your routines,however,throwing in an Isolation move ortwo is not going to magically erase all the work you've done.

No one claimed otherwise.

ORIGINAL: coldfire

ORIGINAL: bulkingup

JEEZ
I'm getting so sick and tired of people trashing isolation exercises on this board. Some of you guys act as if a single bicep curl will shrink half of your gains away in an instant. I honestly think its just something to argue about.LOL!

Sure ...you don't want beginners running around the gym doing nothing but preachers and kickbacks....I get that...and agree 100%. I don't think anyone has ever advocated an "ISO ONLY" routine to a beginner ( or anyone for that matter).

However, isolation exercises...when incorporated with compound(Oh god yes....compound exercises...the holy grail of hypertrophy...HeHeH...) will not...I repeat NOT Hamper or take away your hard earned muscle. I do incorporate compounds and iso's in my training and I continue to get great gains...even at the age of 44...when test levels are starting to wane...so I think the "hazards of iso's" are about as overstated as the hazards of Overtraining....HaHa...The human body is a wonderful,and amazing thing...It adapts and has no way of knowing whether microtears in the muscle came from curls or a pull up.

OK...I'm off my soapbox....Iso's will not kill your gains....Compounds should be the staple of your routines,however,throwing in an Isolation move ortwo is not going to magically erase all the work you've done.

No one claimed otherwise.

Did I say anyone"claimed" anything???
I am refering to the general regard that "most " people on this board have taken towards isolations. The attitude towards iso's is such that you'd swear all iso's were laced with estrogen.....

Current Stack: HDROL,Celltech,Superpump 250, Glutamine,Beta alanine,Whey protein.

ORIGINAL: bulkingup

ORIGINAL: coldfire

ORIGINAL: bulkingup

JEEZ
I'm getting so sick and tired of people trashing isolation exercises on this board. Some of you guys act as if a single bicep curl will shrink half of your gains away in an instant. I honestly think its just something to argue about.LOL!

Sure ...you don't want beginners running around the gym doing nothing but preachers and kickbacks....I get that...and agree 100%. I don't think anyone has ever advocated an "ISO ONLY" routine to a beginner ( or anyone for that matter).

However, isolation exercises...when incorporated with compound(Oh god yes....compound exercises...the holy grail of hypertrophy...HeHeH...) will not...I repeat NOT Hamper or take away your hard earned muscle. I do incorporate compounds and iso's in my training and I continue to get great gains...even at the age of 44...when test levels are starting to wane...so I think the "hazards of iso's" are about as overstated as the hazards of Overtraining....HaHa...The human body is a wonderful,and amazing thing...It adapts and has no way of knowing whether microtears in the muscle came from curls or a pull up.

OK...I'm off my soapbox....Iso's will not kill your gains....Compounds should be the staple of your routines,however,throwing in an Isolation move ortwo is not going to magically erase all the work you've done.

No one claimed otherwise.

Did I say anyone"claimed" anything???
I am refering to the general regard that "most " people on this board have taken towards isolations. The attitude towards iso's is such that you'd swear all iso's were laced with estrogen.....

I don't think people really think that I think that a lot of people don't think they're necessary for beginers.

"In heaven, all the interesting people are missing." Friedrich Nietzsche

"Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted" John Lennon

ORIGINAL: kingyoto

ORIGINAL: bulkingup

ORIGINAL: coldfire

ORIGINAL: bulkingup

JEEZ
I'm getting so sick and tired of people trashing isolation exercises on this board. Some of you guys act as if a single bicep curl will shrink half of your gains away in an instant. I honestly think its just something to argue about.LOL!

Sure ...you don't want beginners running around the gym doing nothing but preachers and kickbacks....I get that...and agree 100%. I don't think anyone has ever advocated an "ISO ONLY" routine to a beginner ( or anyone for that matter).

However, isolation exercises...when incorporated with compound(Oh god yes....compound exercises...the holy grail of hypertrophy...HeHeH...) will not...I repeat NOT Hamper or take away your hard earned muscle. I do incorporate compounds and iso's in my training and I continue to get great gains...even at the age of 44...when test levels are starting to wane...so I think the "hazards of iso's" are about as overstated as the hazards of Overtraining....HaHa...The human body is a wonderful,and amazing thing...It adapts and has no way of knowing whether microtears in the muscle came from curls or a pull up.

OK...I'm off my soapbox....Iso's will not kill your gains....Compounds should be the staple of your routines,however,throwing in an Isolation move ortwo is not going to magically erase all the work you've done.

No one claimed otherwise.

Did I say anyone"claimed" anything???
I am refering to the general regard that "most " people on this board have taken towards isolations. The attitude towards iso's is such that you'd swear all iso's were laced with estrogen.....

I don't think people really think that I think that a lot of people don't think they're necessary for beginers.

Depending on your goals...they may be a necessity.
I personally think they are necessary for me...to continue to make gains you must continue to confuse (shock) the muscle. For a beginner maybe not so much...But telling him that Iso's aren't needed is doing him a disservice in the future!

Current Stack: HDROL,Celltech,Superpump 250, Glutamine,Beta alanine,Whey protein.

ORIGINAL: kingyoto

ORIGINAL: bulkingup

ORIGINAL: coldfire

ORIGINAL: bulkingup

JEEZ
I'm getting so sick and tired of people trashing isolation exercises on this board. Some of you guys act as if a single bicep curl will shrink half of your gains away in an instant. I honestly think its just something to argue about.LOL!

Sure ...you don't want beginners running around the gym doing nothing but preachers and kickbacks....I get that...and agree 100%. I don't think anyone has ever advocated an "ISO ONLY" routine to a beginner ( or anyone for that matter).

However, isolation exercises...when incorporated with compound(Oh god yes....compound exercises...the holy grail of hypertrophy...HeHeH...) will not...I repeat NOT Hamper or take away your hard earned muscle. I do incorporate compounds and iso's in my training and I continue to get great gains...even at the age of 44...when test levels are starting to wane...so I think the "hazards of iso's" are about as overstated as the hazards of Overtraining....HaHa...The human body is a wonderful,and amazing thing...It adapts and has no way of knowing whether microtears in the muscle came from curls or a pull up.

OK...I'm off my soapbox....Iso's will not kill your gains....Compounds should be the staple of your routines,however,throwing in an Isolation move ortwo is not going to magically erase all the work you've done.

No one claimed otherwise.

Did I say anyone"claimed" anything???
I am refering to the general regard that "most " people on this board have taken towards isolations. The attitude towards iso's is such that you'd swear all iso's were laced with estrogen.....

I don't think people really think that I think that a lot of people don't think they're necessary for beginers.

bingo, 99% of beginners would just be wasting breath doing iso's when they could just do compound lifts and get better results AT THAT TIME.  Later down the road iso's are great and i would agree you need them.  The majority of people on this site are either newbies or intermediate lifters, with a few advanced/pro bb mixed in, so compounds are sufficient.

As for most of the comments deadly made... ::rolls eyes::, spreading misinformation like its his job and a my way or the highway attitute, no wonder his show went under, and you crawled back here to boost his ego...

I've made it a point to say at least 3 times I have no issues with Isolations and I do them myself.  My point being is, for a beginning trainee, they're not at all necessary.  Compound exercises are all that's necessary for a beginning lifter to gain strength and size, at least if there diet is in order.   Once a certain degree of muscles is developed, it's perfectly fine to do isolations.. It's perfectly fine to do them before then, it's just not a very functional way to train.
 
My biggest disagreement is with Deadly's statement regarding training to failure...
 
Training to failure should be used as a tool and not something that should be done every time someone walks into the gym, especially a beginner who is going to be very prome to injury.   And of course his un-necessary slam on several of the routines that are being followed here. 
 
He's very larger than life character on this board and even though he has only been back posting for a few weeks, lots of these kids will hang on every word he says and take it as the Gospel.  In this case he happens to be very wrong.... If that type of training works for him then he's a very unique individual because I've yet to meet anyone that can consistently train to failure in the manner he describes unless they're juiced up or just a total freak of nature..
 
As he stated himself.. this is a bodybuilding forum.. For most here Hypertrophy = Bodybuilding.  The foundations of hypertrophy type programs do not include going to failure as he insists. ... that's not even up for debate... 
 
 

ORIGINAL: bulkingup

ORIGINAL: kingyoto

ORIGINAL: bulkingup

ORIGINAL: coldfire

ORIGINAL: bulkingup

JEEZ
I'm getting so sick and tired of people trashing isolation exercises on this board. Some of you guys act as if a single bicep curl will shrink half of your gains away in an instant. I honestly think its just something to argue about.LOL!

Sure ...you don't want beginners running around the gym doing nothing but preachers and kickbacks....I get that...and agree 100%. I don't think anyone has ever advocated an "ISO ONLY" routine to a beginner ( or anyone for that matter).

However, isolation exercises...when incorporated with compound(Oh god yes....compound exercises...the holy grail of hypertrophy...HeHeH...) will not...I repeat NOT Hamper or take away your hard earned muscle. I do incorporate compounds and iso's in my training and I continue to get great gains...even at the age of 44...when test levels are starting to wane...so I think the "hazards of iso's" are about as overstated as the hazards of Overtraining....HaHa...The human body is a wonderful,and amazing thing...It adapts and has no way of knowing whether microtears in the muscle came from curls or a pull up.

OK...I'm off my soapbox....Iso's will not kill your gains....Compounds should be the staple of your routines,however,throwing in an Isolation move ortwo is not going to magically erase all the work you've done.

No one claimed otherwise.

Did I say anyone"claimed" anything???
I am refering to the general regard that "most " people on this board have taken towards isolations. The attitude towards iso's is such that you'd swear all iso's were laced with estrogen.....

I don't think people really think that I think that a lot of people don't think they're necessary for beginers.

Depending on your goals...they may be a necessity.
I personally think they are necessary for me...to continue to make gains you must continue to confuse (shock) the muscle. For a beginner maybe not so much...But telling him that Iso's aren't needed is doing him a disservice in the future!

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

I've made it a point to say at least 3 times I have no issues with Isolations and I do them myself.  My point being is, for a beginning trainee, they're not at all necessary.  Compound exercises are all that's necessary for a beginning lifter to gain strength and size, at least if there diet is in order.   Once a certain degree of muscles is developed, it's perfectly fine to do isolations.. It's perfectly fine to do them before then, it's just not a very functional way to train.

My biggest disagreement is with Deadly's statement regarding training to failure...

Training to failure should be used as a tool and not something that should be done every time someone walks into the gym, especially a beginner who is going to be very prome to injury.   And of course his un-necessary slam on several of the routines that are being followed here. 

He's very larger than life character on this board and even though he has only been back posting for a few weeks, lots of these kids will hang on every word he says and take it as the Gospel.  In this case he happens to be very wrong.... If that type of training works for him then he's a very unique individual because I've yet to meet anyone that can consistently train to failure in the manner he describes unless they're juiced up or just a total freak of nature..

As he stated himself.. this is a bodybuilding forum.. For most here Hypertrophy = Bodybuilding.  The foundations of hypertrophy type programs do not include going to failure as he insists. ... that's not even up for debate... 

he touts his ph/steroid use like a medal...

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

I've made it a point to say at least 3 times I have no issues with Isolations and I do them myself.  My biggest disagreement is with Deadly's statement regarding training to failure...

 
My rant wasn't pointed towards you,Smound, nor anyone else necessarily.Just the general attitude towards iso's by the majority of the members...LOL...the general concensus is that Iso's are a waste of time.
I could start a thread,or better yet a poll...entitle it "should I do preacher curls?"  and I'd probably receive a 90% no vote...without anyone taking into consideration,what level I'm at in my training.
My point is...when you have alot of 15-18 year olds being told so often that iso's= unnecessary...they start to believe it.
 
As far as training to failure...LOL...I can't do it on a consistant basis ( although not for a lack of effort). But I do try! Every session...when I get to rep#whatever...I literally can't get the next rep out...I don't stop at 10 reps just because I've got my ten...I'll do 11,12,13 or however many I can get....Then next session i know I can increase my poundage...so i guess in a way I do train to failure...HeHeHe!

Current Stack: HDROL,Celltech,Superpump 250, Glutamine,Beta alanine,Whey protein.

ORIGINAL: deadlysuperstar

bulkingup, its obvious that estrogen is clouding the ideals of this board. I guess there's another ED group on DBB... [E]strogen [D]ependent.

I think we should dial 9-waaaa-waaaa and get a waaaaaaambulance out here immediately.

I love how some people preach about hypertrophy but don't have any pics of them hypertrophied out, then have the nerve to tell me "hey buddy, there's all these members with more muscle development than you for their size". Well la-deeee-da, I like my chest, I had to work 8X as hard as the next guy cuz A] I am pidgeon-chested (ribcage deformity) so I need 2X as much muscle mass to look the same size as the next guy and B] I'm stacking muscle on one of the largest frames on DBB.com and the top .5% of humanity.

I smell an aroma in this thread... AROMATIZATION.


This thread is officially EPIC FAIL. Unsubscribed. I'm sure the OP has both sides of the debate down pat, and will choose a path, and will get the gains, big or small, according to the path chosen.

lol you sound like a whiny girl who didnt get her way, glad you unsubscribed

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

I don't care if you mistake confidence for conceitedness. It's also easier for a shorter guy to have more muscle development than someone my height. It's harder for someone my height to get to my size than it is for someone 5'10".

Bottom line is, you can try to downplay me all you want. I could care less. All of you who are just screennames and no photos and claim to be gurus have no effect on my opinions.

No one is arguing that fact that it's much more difficult for a taller person to gain mass such as yourself, but with that said, it greatly depends on body type and not height alone. I can't speak for everyone on this board but I have never tried to down play you or anyone else. And regarding the guru's??? I"m not sure who your talking about cause I've never seen any regular member on this board state they are or even pretend to be a guru..

And there's a huge difference between confidence and making pompas statements like you have made in several of the posts in this thread.

My last word on this thread is this:

1. If you want to become a monster, well even as a beginner, you need to learn all the exercises and lift heavy.

2. You need to develop good habits from the start, so it makes no sense just to do 6-7 exercises for your entire body.

3. Unless you know pro or semi-pro bodybuilders, don't come on here saying "Have you seen [enter BBer's name here]? Well he does this". I know tons of bodybuilders, and yes, lots of WWE Superstars are considered bodybuilders even if they aren't hypertrophied to the point they can't wipe their own ass, and I know this for a bona-fide fact-

A LOT OF BBERS LIE ABOUT THEIR WORKOUTS & THEIR DIETS. THEY DON'T WANT TO TRAIN THEIR FUTURE COMPETITION BY SHOWING ALL THE CARDS THEY'RE HOLDING.

You see Jay Cutler in those ads for those Anator p70 or whatever supps he endorses? You think he takes that stuff? NO. So why would the workouts or diets he has listed be any more reliable? Ok then.

I speak from experience and from what I know from BBers I know personally. If anyone has a problem with my opinions, well good for you. Go eat an apple and spit it at your computer screen for all I care. Nothing you say will make me change my opinion, and your opinions so far have been based on what you've read in magazines or are coming from people who don't post pix of their physique but are quick to trash someone like me who posts my pics.

If any 18-19yo's out there do nothing but 8-10 sets of compound exercises and look like monsters, or continually add more weight to their exercises for years and years in a linear progression without hitting any plateaus, post your pix.

The end. 

Your statement about being a monster.. Learn all the exercises and lift heavy, learn good habids and how it doesn't make sense to do only 7-8 exercises for the entire body...
Let me start by addressing your previous statement that seemed to inspire Boomersooner...

The reason most people you see at the gym aren't big and ripped isn't because they're doing a structured routine and following a proper diet.. it's because they're following the philosophy you've been spreading in this thread.. they go to the gym for a few months.. walk around lifting weights that are far too heavy for them and doing pointless isolation exercises to failure. After a few weeks, maybe a a few months they usually end up getting injured or just quit due to lack of results.. Now that's the real truth..

IMO it's just the opposite of what you said.. If all someone had to do to get big and ripped is go to the gym 5 days a week and lift to failure (someothing most newbs do) almost anyone would be able to do that.. but unfortunately, it's a bit more complicated than just lifting to failure each and every time you workout..

In reference to the pro bbers and muscle comics.. I'm not sure who you're suggesting reads that trash but it's not me. And I think most here are very aware that all the pro's who are sponsored by supplement companies are only doing it for the money..

and as far as the pro's not sharing their training routines.. That's funny.. Most of the top pro's are friends, and they have no mystical magic training secrets they're trying to hide from each other.. I think we all know how they've managed to get to such a size that they can no longer wipe their own ass.. (nice one, If it's OK, I'd like to use that in the future)

And you're right about some of the WWE guys being body builders.. I'm not sure what was said that made you feel the need to throw that comment out, as if someone was trying to dispute that fact.. but I worked closely with WWE for several years and at one point was in their office on a weekly basis.. I still have relationships with several of their executives and have even had the pleasure of training on a few occations with some of their tallent.  Maybe you felt the need to throw that comment out because you felt my comment about you was in some way trashing the industry but if that's the case.. took it the wrong way.. I have a tremendous amount of respect for everyone involved with that company.

You can try to dispute the facts all you like, but I can certainly assure you and anyone else on this board that going to a gym and lifting to failure each and every time you train in doing nothing but leading to a dead end.  If you're lucky and able to do it for any length of time without injury, you'll grow if you're eating right.. but the chances are very slim..  Again, I think isolations are great.. if needed but for most beginners and intermediate lifters.. which is about 80% of the training population.. they're not needed in order to grow. Improper use of Isolation exercises are partly responsible for many begining lifters having imbalances which is another factor that can lead to injury later down the road.

The End.....

that's not true at all.

most of the most popular body builders train to failure;  their post workout meal DEPENDS on it.  As exercisers, our goal should be to create a maximum anabolic state following a workout.  Ideally, this is accomplished with something that would allow the body the optimum metabolic and hormonal milieu for the greatest amount of growth and repair.......this occurs in the post workout state.  following VIGOUROUS exercise, hormones are ath their peak, and muscles are begging for nutrients...........your post workout meal is one of the most important meals.  TO ACHIEVE THE MAXIMUM MUSCLE GROWTH AFTER A WORKOUT FROM YOUR POST WORKOUT MEAL, YOU MUST TRAIN TO FAILURE.  training to failure is absolutely imperative and a must for your post workout meal to have the best possible effect.  the more you break your body down, the more it can take back in to the muscles.  by calculating the amount of carbs and protein you need after a workout, you must count your number of forced reps. 

it's exactly how i've gotten to the point where i am at right now...................you can't argue with results.

you dont need to train to failure, many many many pro bb and intermediate lifters do not and they obviously have gotten somewhere.  Like smouz said its a tool not to be used constantly.  I have only trained to failure twice(as a routine) and i'm doing quite well in progression still.  It goes both ways.

ORIGINAL: Soccerking3000

you dont need to train to failure, many many many pro bb and intermediate lifters do not and they obviously have gotten somewhere.  Like smouz said its a tool not to be used constantly.  I have only trained to failure twice(as a routine) and i'm doing quite well in progression still.  It goes both ways.

i won't argue with you, because you are correct to a point

but i also agree with deadlysuperstar.  you have to hit the weights and hit them hard.  i see guys in the gym that do the same weight on every exercise they do, and 5 months later, they're still at the same place. 

if you're not constantly pushing yourself and making yourself do more, then where can you go?

funny dont have myspace, but nice try

Here look at you:


such a svelte guy, hahah please

My whole body gets trained 2x a week so my nervous system cant recover from training to failure every workout. I do train to failure quite a bit but not TOO much. lol

17 years old
180 pounds

dirty bulk= fail
X-repper forever

On the race to 190 and 17 inch arms

ORIGINAL: Beefcake

My whole body gets trained 2x a week so my nervous system cant recover from training to failure every workout. I do train to failure quite a bit but not TOO much. lol

what's your split like?

if you calculate your needed amounts of protein and carbs for a post workout meal, you'd be fine

ORIGINAL: deadlysuperstar

ORIGINAL: Soccerking3000

lol you sound like a whiny girl who didnt get her way, glad you unsubscribed

You look like a whiny girl with a buzzed head. I'm sure the lurkers who look at my avatar and your avatar will SUBSCRIBE to my brand of bodybuilding because they wanna look like a monster, not like someone on the French Olympic bicycling team.

You have a sissy comeback for everything I say. I don't need to continue proving any points because both you and I have avatars showing our results from putting our own ideology into play. That's why I'm unsubscribing. Your avatar proves who the whiny girl is, pencil boy.

bahaha, ohhh you were being serious, dude you look pathetic its ok, i mean who cares if you got ****tits from the ph's i'm sure you'll get over the self image issue.  As for proving points to me, you dont prove anything you ramble and rant about useless crap that doesnt pertain to anything, as smouz pointed out on numerous occassions.  I'm sure if someone wants to look like you they... nvm no one is really gunna wanna look like that.

ohh and even better not your myspace your gf's, she could do better.

ORIGINAL: Soccerking3000

ORIGINAL: deadlysuperstar

ORIGINAL: Soccerking3000

lol you sound like a whiny girl who didnt get her way, glad you unsubscribed

You look like a whiny girl with a buzzed head. I'm sure the lurkers who look at my avatar and your avatar will SUBSCRIBE to my brand of bodybuilding because they wanna look like a monster, not like someone on the French Olympic bicycling team.

You have a sissy comeback for everything I say. I don't need to continue proving any points because both you and I have avatars showing our results from putting our own ideology into play. That's why I'm unsubscribing. Your avatar proves who the whiny girl is, pencil boy.

bahaha, ohhh you were being serious, dude you look pathetic its ok, i mean who cares if you got ****tits from the ph's i'm sure you'll get over the self image issue.  As for proving points to me, you dont prove anything you ramble and rant about useless crap that doesnt pertain to anything, as smouz pointed out on numerous occassions.  I'm sure if someone wants to look like you they... nvm no one is really gunna wanna look like that.

ohh and even better not your myspace your gf's, she could do better.

i'm just stepping in to put my two cents worth......

deadly superstar is a big guy; he does have a lot of muscle. 

you are a lean, cut guy, who has a lot of muscle. 

but seriously, think about it, if deadly had the same bf% as you, he'd look amazing.  his methods have worked for him, and yours work for you.

but going off and insulting someone's girlfriend and that person is just kind of overstepping the line to me.  to me, everyone has their own opinion, and that's cool.  but i don't ever insult someone or their girlfriend just because of something they say to me. 

ORIGINAL: boomersooner1331

ORIGINAL: Soccerking3000

ORIGINAL: deadlysuperstar

ORIGINAL: Soccerking3000

lol you sound like a whiny girl who didnt get her way, glad you unsubscribed

You look like a whiny girl with a buzzed head. I'm sure the lurkers who look at my avatar and your avatar will SUBSCRIBE to my brand of bodybuilding because they wanna look like a monster, not like someone on the French Olympic bicycling team.

You have a sissy comeback for everything I say. I don't need to continue proving any points because both you and I have avatars showing our results from putting our own ideology into play. That's why I'm unsubscribing. Your avatar proves who the whiny girl is, pencil boy.

bahaha, ohhh you were being serious, dude you look pathetic its ok, i mean who cares if you got ****tits from the ph's i'm sure you'll get over the self image issue.  As for proving points to me, you dont prove anything you ramble and rant about useless crap that doesnt pertain to anything, as smouz pointed out on numerous occassions.  I'm sure if someone wants to look like you they... nvm no one is really gunna wanna look like that.

ohh and even better not your myspace your gf's, she could do better.

i'm just stepping in to put my two cents worth......

deadly superstar is a big guy; he does have a lot of muscle. 

you are a lean, cut guy, who has a lot of muscle. 

but seriously, think about it, if deadly had the same bf% as you, he'd look amazing.  his methods have worked for him, and yours work for you.

but going off and insulting someone's girlfriend and that person is just kind of overstepping the line to me.  to me, everyone has their own opinion, and that's cool.  but i don't ever insult someone or their girlfriend just because of something they say to me. 

trust me deadly is like a child, he will go on a temper tantrum and everyone kinda goes ohh my bad dude.  Once in awhile he needs to be laid into because all he has ever done is rant and rave about ph's and how much of a badass he is and to be frank the forum was better without him.  And if he has the same bodyfat as me he would look dumb because he is so disproportionate it isnt funny.

you've already seen a picture of her and you already said she looked good so dont even tr, and i mean if your girl likes to get on women because you can't do it for her ohh well.