PHs and Steroids [Was: Question]

I read the rules about not posting about steroids and I don't know if this is stepping out of bouncs and if it is i apologize and feel free to remove this post. I was just wodnering was is the difference between steroids and pro-hormones. At first I thought they were the same but now I guess they aren't.

{As a side note I am against steroids 100% but unfortunately they are a big part of our sport and I was just wondering the similarity with pro-hormons}

NP

The rule is geared towards not posting about where to buy them, how to use them and advocating the use of such. But if you are just wondering what the major differences are.. that's fine.

I'll see what I can dig up.

Marc C. David
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A steroid, or more correctly and anabolic steroid, is an exogenous hormone.

Use of an anabolic steroid increases ones hormone levels to supra-physiological levels (i.e. levels one could not achieve naturally).

Most steroids are inactive when taken orally, thus they are injected. A few are altered (like dianabol) to make them active orally. One such method is my methylating the steroid. The methylation cause the steroid to pass through the liver mostly unharmed. This, however, makes it quite taxing on the liver.

As well, most oral steroids are not very anabolic (muscle building) and so any experience steroid expert will tell you that a "cycle" should never only include orals (i.e. you could stack orals with injectibles).

A "pro-hormone" is something that is not an active hormone (like a steroid) but it is a precursor to a steroid. In other words, there are enzymes in your body that can convert the PH into an active hormone (steroid).

For example, 4-androstendiol will convert to testosterone (via an enzyme in the body).

1, 4 androstendiol will convert to boldenone (a steroid).

1 androstendiol (1-AD) will convert to 1-testosterone.

Interstingly 1-testosterone is an actual steroid, but a legal one (there are many OTC supps that incorporate it). It is often referred to as a pro-steroid, because (for now) it is a legal supplement.

So, PHs (and PSs) in order to qualify as a "dietary supplement" must be taken orally (pursuant to the DSHEA). So you again are back to the issue of how potent this PH/PS will be, since it is not very "bioavailable".

People estimate that the PH/PSs are anywhere from 5-40% bioavailable. Some individuals have injected these (illegally) in which case you'd see results similar to various illegal anabolic compounds.

But orally, they will ultimately provide some exogenous hormones (and this you see many people claiming terrific results) just not as much as anything delivered via injection.

So, the biggest difference between PHs (and especially PSs) and illegal anabolic compounds is the delivery mechanism.

Now, recently we are seeing chemists methlylating some of these PHs and PSs. Methyl 1-Test is very big right now. It is highly orally active and rivals any "true" steroid. Its also pretty harsh on the liver.

And so with M1T, we are seeing some outrageous growth.

And other companies are starting to Methylate other PHs and PSs.

Many experts believe that once one of these (currently) legal compounds are methylated, they become illegal. So this is very much a grey area.

Hope this helps.

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Now, recently we are seeing chemists methlylating some of these PHs and PSs. Methyl 1-Test is very big right now. It is highly orally active and rivals any "true" steroid. Its also pretty harsh on the liver.

Please explain further, I have not seen anyone taking any over-the counter anything that ever came close to the results of a legit under-the-border roid. Let me say that I have never and will never, but you can't argue with the results.

Thanks,
D

What do you want me to further explain?

VPX is the only large company that sells one of these. You can buy it cheaper at a number of places including legalgear.com, or cheaper at kilosports.com or much cheaper at bulknutrition.com.

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Thanks TP. That post was the bomb. No need to dig up further.

Marc C. David
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No Prob.

I do my best.

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I hope you didn't take offense, I am by no means saying that you don't know what you are talking about.

I have seen alot of ad campaigns by the supp manufacturors claiming to be as good as gear. In my experience I have never seen any over-the counter supp that produced the same results as a roid cycle. I have used VPX supps in the past and they were phenominal... but again, while good not that good. So I guess what I'm asking is, have you used this supp? Aside from a supp manufaturors claim how do I know that this stuff is as good as gear?

Thanks,
D

I think you missed my point. You need to dissect your question, is it as good as gear? Also, you need to define "gear"; as there are many types of gear, all of which will produce different results.

Again, let me repeat, it is the mode of administration that makes most PHs and PSs not "as good as gear."

Now, when you are talking about methyl 1-testosterone, it is (in my opinion) as good as any oral illicit steroid.

Will you get better gains from injectible testosterone, etc -- likely.

Will you get excellent gains from M1T (and steroid like side effects) -- surely.

Will any supplement meet most marketing claims -- not likely, as most companies spew **** out of their corporate asses.

And yes, I have used M1T, but have never used an injectible to compare it with. I also personally know dozens of others who have used it, some of who have used injectibles to compare it with.

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Thanks for the clarification... maybe I'll give it a shot in a month or so. My point was simply that we've all heard the claims and bought into them (from our wallet). A bottle of Paradeca was $100 a few years ago and it was good stuff, but 5lbs of muscle in a month doesn't compare to the gains I would have seen if I was on a roid cycle (from what I've been told). Thanks for the insite into this product.

My understanding of what you are saying is this... it may not be as good as the claim, but it's by far the best PH/PS on the market so if you're going to use one this is the one to use.

Thanks Twin,
D

Yes and no. Its certainly the most potent on the market. But its also the harshed on the liver. So its ultimately your call.

BTW, bulknutrition has it for 10 bucks.

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HERE WE GO TWIN... I gotta swallow my pride Bro so hold tight for a second... <GULP>. OK

I was wrong you were right. M1T gave me the results I would expect from a legit cycle. No, I don't have first hand experience in what actual gear, and that's why I said "expect".

I took measurements and weights and all that stuff and I'l post that at a later date... probably much later at the rate I'm on now, but here's the low-down-ho-down. Day 1 I weighed in at 173 (admittedly slightly dehydrated and after a weekend of starvation, so let's assume my natural bodyweight at that time was 175) in 2 weeks I peaked out at 184... not too shabby. My waist size remained unchanged, so very little of that came from fat gain and I was eating constantly (striving for 7-8 meals a day). I'm down to 180 right now after a few weeks of toning up a tad and I'll hit it again for another 2 weeks to kill off the remaining supply after Easter.

My appologies, I should have never questioned your vast knowledge base... lol, it won't happen again until next time.

YOU DA MAN TWIN, Thanks bro.

Oh, I should state the side effects I experienced... nosebleeds evidently from elevated blood pressure, so stay well hydrated. I did take some measurements to monitor it and it never got out of hand but if your on that bubble already definitely a consideration. Other than that -- NONE.

D

Hi everyone out there

I dont know whether this is the correct forum for this? Or whether anyone out there can help. Let me explain!

I come from the Solihull area of England, I am employed as a Harm Reduction Specialist in the Borough of Solihull. One of my primary aims is to set up a needle/equipment exchange for drug users/steroid users in the area. I would appreciate any contact in the strictest of confidence from anyone who lives in the area or indeed anyone who may want to comment about this. Please be reassured that my only aim is to reduce the harm caused by improper use of equipment used in injecting, whether this may be as a result of a lack of knowledge or non availability of correct equipment. I have very little knowledge about the sport so go easy on me in respect of terms used.
What happens around the world (USA etc) regarding this.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Thanks fellas

Regards
Brett

I have been doing alot of reading on M1T over the past couple weeks. I am now debating taking it along with 4AD for just one 2week cycle followed by 6OXO for PCT 2weeks and call it quits. I guess my question is "will i cause harm to my body from one cycle and should i see dramatic results?"

Any feedback would be great, especially TP.

Now, when you are talking about methyl 1-testosterone, it is (in my opinion) as good as any oral illicit steroid.

Thats extraordinary! By "any" I am thinking you are including dianabol,( which helped me blow through plateaus in no time flat! ) and anadrol ( I wouldn't dare!)
Without the ability of 1-test to aromatize, unlike the two I've just mentioned, water retention and the associated puffiness (moon face) shouldn't be a problem.
What I am concerned about is the lethargy. How do you have a good workout if you can't keep your eyes open or focus?
Molecular Nutrition's "3-alpha" I am hoping will combat the problem, as it is suppose to have a cns stimulatory effect as well as being a cutting ph. Am I hoping against hope? Opinions please!!