PH use at my age

Studies are over-rated and not really possible in this industry. Moves too fast. Everybody wants one. Nobody is getting one.

And testimonials can be just as good of proof. Unless everybody on this forum who posts has a reason to falsify, most people will give their honest opinions. There's no reason for them to do otherwise.

It's all about money. They could have studies if they were willing to pay for them. This why we have the FDA, because too many people were dying from snake-oil salemen's potions. And believe me, those snake-oil salesmen had PLEANTY of testimonials.

In court, eyewitness testimony is both the most convincing to a jury and the least accurate. Companies can pick and choose their testimonials too.

And if I was offered $20,000 to endorse something? Well, you only get endorsements by being a FREAKING FREAK anymore, and I wouldn't want to have my livelihood depend on pumping myself full of steroids. I make my living off using my head, and it'll last longer than my pecs...probably. I'm glad I don't NEED to endorse something to take care of my kids.

Maybe I should go work for these people

*NOTE: This statement has not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

This why we have the FDA, because too many people were dying from snake-oil salemen's potions.

And also why we have forums. Where we can all chat, give our testimonials and other proof that things work.

I would agree that on a site or in court.. you can get people to side with you.

But I don't think the 90% of people who say creatine works, are being paid or endorsed by anybody. They are giving independent opinions. And while opinions are not facts, sometimes you don't need facts to be right. Or to make a good choice.

And believe me, those snake-oil salesmen had PLEANTY of testimonials.

On their site.. On their product pages.. materials.. yes.

But forums? Unless it's paid for by a company.. and regulated to censor any negativity.. the testimonials may go either way.

Take AvantLabs..

Their forum.. sponsored by them. They have taken testimonials from people who use their products. According to your thoughts.. yeah.. but they might only take the good ones. Making the testimonials invalid.

Okay. So say that's true.

Go to Cutting Edge Muscle forums or BB.com.. or IM.. and you'll find plenty of others giving good, positive feedback about the staff and the products.

These people cannot all be paid nor have a vested interest.

And yes, Avant could "pick and choose their testimonials too. " It would be stupid to put feedback that says.. OMG, this sucks.. But forums have that feedback. They are your testimonials that are not always paid for by anybody.

I give feedback at Amazon.com on books. Nobody paid me to write those.

Point being, if you get your testimonials from a wide variety of sources, you are better off then if you just view the ones at a company website.

I agree with that.

and I wouldn't want to have my livelihood depend on pumping myself full of steroids.

And I wouldn't wanna have my livelihood depend on my "actually" working 10 hrs a day missing my family or posting on this forum. People gotta do what drives them. I don't want that either. But then again, I don't want to collect trash or do other things either. We all have jobs. Or careers. I don't want to be a lawyer either and have my life depend on my reasoning abilities.

I'm glad I don't NEED to endorse something to take care of my kids.

True. But you could still endorse my signature!

Marc C. David
Support DB! Buy your supplements at Supplements101.com

True. But you could still endorse my signature!

Do I get $20,000 for it?

More like .20

A cup of really bad coffee.

Maybe if you get FREAKY huge, we can talk.

Marc C. David
Support DB! Buy your supplements at Supplements101.com

Insult your intelligence? Please, you are insulting all of our collective intelligence when you claim that Substance X, Y and Z doesn't work, because you have seen studies regarding the lack of efficacy regarding related substances A and B. Your lack of hubrious is even greater when you "opinion stated as fact" flys in
the face of THOUSANDS of testimonials.

This is particularly true when speaking of various pro-hormones and pro-steroids where you can literally see changes (good and bad) as they happen.

Taking a basic (or even in-depth) understanding of human endocrinology and applying to that which you know nothing about is not impressive.

Now, let me address your Rant about the supplement industry. You are correct. It sucks. Claims are absurd, many products are worthless, and many companies are fraudulent. Bull**** before and after pics about, and useless endorsements are the norm. I couldn't agree more.

Now, let me address your Rant about studies. You obviously have not one iota at the cost of these. It was way about and medium to small company to be able to afford them. Also there is little value, in terms of sales.

P.S. Actually, Avant Labs collects good and bad feedback, and both are posted with a link from the product page.

P.P.S Avant Labs does not sell anything hormonal.

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Peak Physiques™

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I've been looking online for an actual study of AD-1, and I'm not finding anything. I am finding some articles the authors CALL studies, that are actually just write-ups of the chemical structure and a theory about what it does in the body. I am also finding PLEANTY of hype from supplement sites.

You two seem to be saying that AD-1 must work because lots of people think it does, and I'm somehow delusional because I insist on seeing a nice clean scientific study that shows that AD-1 works.

Fine, you go by popular opinion, I'll continue to go by scientific method.

My point is, you can't always wait for direct evidence. Rarely you will get it, especially in this field.

I am saying that I have personally tried several of these substances, though not 1-AD.

And it is quite noticeable. And there are thousands of other confirming reports. To ignore that is keeping ones head in the sand.

Until recently scientists denied that steroids "worked" too. Ironic eh?

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BTW, check for studies on 4-androstendiol, I believe a few exist.

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You two seem to be saying that AD-1 must work because lots of people think it does, and I'm somehow delusional because I insist on seeing a nice clean scientific study that shows that AD-1 works.

Speaking for myself (TP would beat me and sue me if I spoke for him ) I've not tried it. But I never needed a study to tell me creatine worked. Plenty of people said it did.. I tried it.. and sure enough.. it did.. for me. So yes, if 90% of people say it works, it probably does.

And no, I don't think you are delusional. I wouldn't make you a mod if I did. You simply require more evidence and proof. There's no harm or foul in that. Maybe in 10 years, once it's banned, you will see a scientific study that it works. Who knows. I'm not accusing you of being delusional because you won't take testimonials as facts. You just need a higher level of scientific evidence then most of us.

If you require a clean scientific study, cool. But to say it does not work when 90% of people say it does?

Pro-hormones are the kinda thing that should be researched by the person taking them. If you just want to go by people's testimonials, fine. But read the FAQ in this forum as well. If you need more evidence, that is all the better. They aren't like protein. There are side effects and they do require an amount of knowledge beyond that of somebody taking creatine. The more research and debate about this, the better.

Marc C. David
Support DB! Buy your supplements at Supplements101.com

I've taken 1-AD and got great results....except for the side effects.

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I'm curious, how are pro-hormones developed if "this industry moves too fast for scientific studies"?

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