Optimum Anabolics -The Review

I did.

115 g?  Check that math again.  That does seem high.  I'll have to dig out my calculations but I don't think it threw up a red flag.  Remember that those fats should come from good sources like nuts and oils.  Not ice cream.  Still... you are right.  Seems high.  Double check the math. 

Marc C. David - NGA CPT
Author of NoBull Bodybuilding
www.nobullbodybuilding.com

The math is correct 30g of fat after the workout and 17g of fat for each of the remaining five meals. I sure hope it's correct.
 
Thank's
Sonny

Superset 1:

Front Dumbbell Raises
25x12;30x10;30x8

Arnold Presses
30x12;45x10;50x8

I didnt realize we were supposed to increase the weight each set.. are we supposed to do that? because I musta missed that. I dont think its possible for me to do that, i could do it the first several sets but the ones towards the end, no way i could increase the weight.

Normally yes.

In order to fail at 8 reps, I needed to increase the weight.  Whatever it takes to hit 12,10,8 depending on the week you are on.

To either reach failure or a rep or two shy of failure.

Marc C. David - NGA CPT
Author of NoBull Bodybuilding
www.nobullbodybuilding.com

lol MDA1125 the guy on the book and u have the same haircut...lol
 
 

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but could someone give me a link to Naviator's Optimum Anabolic's journal?  I can't find it...

Nav's Optimum Anabolic Journal

Marc C. David - NGA CPT
Author of NoBull Bodybuilding
www.nobullbodybuilding.com

Hey Marc,

Did you log your diet when on this program?  I'm trying to design my meal plans for this, and am looking for examples of what other people ate.

Thanks!  Z

"If there's nothing else that's relevant, I'll be leaving now"

"Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground"

I did not.

I just knew what I needed in terms of protein, carbs and fats and then used FitDay as I ate thru the day to see how close I was.

This go around, I've got a structured meal plan outline.

Marc C. David - NGA CPT
Author of NoBull Bodybuilding
www.nobullbodybuilding.com

cool, sorry I've been repetitive in my questions.  For the curious, I've also started a low protein Critique My Recipe Thread:  http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/Low_protein_recipes_thread_for_nutty_Optimum_Anabolics_protein_deprivation_phases/m_183443/tm.htm

"If there's nothing else that's relevant, I'll be leaving now"

"Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground"

what i dont get is...ive followed a few logs and alot of people swear by this but after 12 weeks many people have the same measurments as they did when they started or even lose a little (some by way of BF%) but this is a bulking routine, so if its an effective program wouldnt the measurements go up?

Height - 5'9
Weight - 190lbs
Age - 19
BF% - between 13-14%

never satisfied...


Team Natural...

but this is a bulking routine, so if its an effective program wouldn't the measurements go up?

It is a bulking/maintenance/fat loss routine.

It depends on the person's diet and what path they picked at the beginning.

If your measurements didn't change (weight, physical measurements) from the beginning to end then yes.. that's called no progress and something is wrong. 

If you were on the cutting part of this program, you might not have gained as much muscle but your waist or overall body fat should have dropped.

I've done this program twice now and both my weight and physical measurements have changed including but not limited to a significant increase in muscle mass and a smaller but noticeable drop in body fat.

Marc C. David - NGA CPT
Author of NoBull Bodybuilding
www.nobullbodybuilding.com

i'm talking about measurements as far as muscle size more so than weight.  many people claim to have lost fat and gained muscle.....they have the same measurements, roughly the same weight and just look more cut up. and i understand that fat is replaced by muscle so aside from those already with alot of BF to spare, wouldnt the myotape get stretched out more?  otherwise, where did all the muscle go?

Height - 5'9
Weight - 190lbs
Age - 19
BF% - between 13-14%

never satisfied...


Team Natural...

That can depend on just too many factors.

What if you were 20% body fat with a 16" bicep but at the end you were 15% body fat with a 15" bicep?

You'd look more cut but the myo-tape would show you'd gotten smaller when in actual numbers you didn't.

When I bulk and do the O.A. program, all my measurements go up.  Period.

But if I was cutting, then I would assume the tape would show smaller measurments as fat would be lost around the muscles in question.

Really it's not the tape I'm concerned with..

It's overall weight and body fat percentages.

If my weight goes up but my body fat goes down... that's muscle.

If my weight goes up and so does my body fat... that's fat.

If my weight goes down but my body fat goes up.. that's muscle saying buh-bye.

Etc...

At the end the person should know if they gained muscle or lost fat via the measurements they were taking weekly per Jeff's recommendations and by using his simple computer program.

You should see body fat decrease and muscle increase regardless of the path you picked.  The rate of increase or decrease would be significant depending on what your goal was in the beginning.

And take into account height as well.  I saw a post on DB today where the individual put on 25 lbs but didn't look any different.  But he was 6" tall!  25 lbs on that size of a frame isn't anything compared to a guy who's 5'4" where 25 lbs is totally obvious.

Marc C. David - NGA CPT
Author of NoBull Bodybuilding
www.nobullbodybuilding.com

Hi marc
i have some question from you
i'll be so thankfull if you reply
i got the optimum anabolics and somthings are dark for me
bigget problem is the protein diet cycle
i dont know what has protein in it and how much it has ( the same with carbs and fat )
i read your review and it helps so much for undrestanding the program better
I voted for you at least maybe you win and i pay my due !
BYE

This looks like a pretty good program, however the cost seems to be 97USD now from what I can see.

If you aren't sure what constitues a protein and such, there is a very good nutrition post by our own Dan of DB that covers a lot of the basics and advanced topics of quick muscle gains that you can use in the Optimum Anabolics program.

There is a very good list of proteins, carbs and fats in that post as well that will link up directly to what Jeff has in his program but Dan's post goes into a lot more detail.

Marc C. David - NGA CPT
Author of NoBull Bodybuilding
www.nobullbodybuilding.com

thanks Marc

anyways ive been reading your reveiw and im thinking of starting this program  and i am hoping u can help me out lol im new to this  here are my two diets and i copy your low protein diet hope u dont mind.
 
 
Low-Protein                                            High-Protein
 
Breakfast:                                              Breakfast:                        

Oats, orange juice, banana         Protein shake (muscle milk)

Snack 1:                                                  Snack 1:

Fruit,almonds                                  Fruit,almonds,chicken,tuna

Lunch:                                                       Lunch:

Thai or Mexican (noodles) and fruit     brocooli and protein shake                                             (Mass Gainer 2007)

Snack 2:                                                         Snack 2:

Fruit, peanuts                                        Fruit, peanuts

Post-Workout:                                      Post-Workout:
Protein shake                       Protein shake (muscle milk)

Dinner:                                           Dinner:

Noodles, salad                                chicken, tuna                                                                                                                    
Snack 3:                                                Snack 3 :

Fruit, nuts                           Protein shake (muscle milk) 
 
 
anyways can u critique mi high protein diet and help me out with any toher things that can make it better
 
 
 

Hi everyone, new user here.
 
I have just come across the Optimum Anabolics program on the net, and am very intrigued. I am just wondering before I commit, as a vegetarain, is it possible to adapt the diet plans for a vegetarian diet?

Yes.

You will just have to research your vegan protein sources, which maybe you already know and do.

There's no animal protein requirements on this program.  If you calculate you need X grams of protein a day, then you can get that from plant sources.  Just make sure you are getting complete proteins.  As a vegan, you probably know this.

On the protein deprevation stages, the low protein cycle, you'll probably be at an advantage where the rest of us "meat eaters" are clueless and can't figure out what to eat.

Low protein would mean just that.

Animal or vegan sources.

Marc C. David - NGA CPT
Author of NoBull Bodybuilding
www.nobullbodybuilding.com

Ok.. Just started the AO program (recently completed a 15 week.. so I thought.. Difficult program before this with good results).

I used to if not love, atleast not mind Leg Day's that much... until today... Wow.. Jeff Anderson really knows how to kick your butt!!!

All of the materials within this program.. make since.. if not odd.... But.. due to my lack of some resources.. dumping 3 tbls of honey in my post workout morning shake.. tastes like hell!!..

            

hi there,
    I'm new to the forum and to the OA but am thinking of starting it next week. I thought I had a good grasp of the principles behind it, but after I visited this forum, some things have been puzzling me.    
        For example, Marc, why do you say 115 grams of fat is too high? According to Jeff's formulas, once you've determined your protein needs, you should split the remainder between fats and carbs. So if you weigh 180 lbs at 15% bf, have a moderate metabolism and want to primarily gain weight, the grams of fat come to about 170 !   
        Also, after the low protein cycle, you should take high protein +1, which for a 180 pounder at 15%bf means roughly 200 grams per day, right? I'm asking because someone here said after three weeks on low protein, you start taking 60 grams per day for three weeks, which is definitely not the "high protein +1" phase, is it ?
      Any replies are greatly appreciated
      10x guys.
    
      
              

follow the plan as it is written.

when you did your exercise supersets..did u go from lets say Front DB raises superset to arnolds and then back to Raises?
 
or did u finish the 4 sets of DB raises and then move on and do all your arnolds in a row?

Sorry someone didn't see this until now.

It means you set up a bar on a rack or a smith machine at about hips/waist high. Then you prop your feet up on a big exercise ball and hang under the bar. You would be in a bench press type position with your back resting on nothing because you are hanging, and your feet balancing on the ball. Then you would pull your body towards the bar in a rowing movement and bring your chest to touch the bar. Hope that helps.

Add me on facebook!

ORIGINAL: rippedchick

Sorry someone didn't see this until now.

It means you set up a bar on a rack or a smith machine at about hips/waist high. Then you prop your feet up on a big exercise ball and hang under the bar. You would be in a bench press type position with your back resting on nothing because you are hanging, and your feet balancing on the ball. Then you would pull your body towards the bar in a rowing movement and bring your chest to touch the bar. Hope that helps.

 
Thats exactly how I performed the hanging row when I was on the OA. Its confusing because the programme actually descibes it as a bent over barbell row. A lot of the exercise instructions are pretty vague in that book.

I'm new here , and now about to start the Optimum anabolic program
Just have a enquery is

Do you guys perform warm up before carry out the exercises ? If you did what kind of warm up do you guys do ?
Or
when arrive at gym straight head for the exercises ?

Thanks

I found no reference to warm up sets when I was on the OA. Trust me, when you're on the third week of your hyper-adaptive cycles the last thing you'll want is extra warm-up sets. All I did was stretch in between sets, maybe do some pre-workout groin stretches on your leg days.

I havn't been doing any warm up sets either. By the way, I'm on day 2 week 7, and I'm finding this diet very difficult. I'm used to eating dairy in the morning, but according to the protein deprivation cycle, I'm supposed to avoid dairy. So I'm wondering, what are you guys eating for breakfast?

would like to know about how you guys go around for the exercises

For example you guys go from superset 1
eg.

DB Concerntration Curl & Arnold Press
DB Concerntration Curl & Arnold Press
DB Concerntration Curl & Arnold Press

OR

DB Concerntration X 3
then only
Arnold Press X 3 ?

p/s: great to hear that there is someone still doing OA in 2008. Thought that I might be outdated on this great program

Hi all

Another question i would like to ask is that for the Arms exercises
How you guys count is as we need to do Left and Right hand .

It is
Concerntration Curl (L) x 12
Concerntration Curl (R) x 12
Arnold Press x 12

This 3 consider as 1 Superset ?

Hope to see the reply . I'm so new here

ORIGINAL: mytest0309

would like to know about how you guys go around for the exercises

For example you guys go from superset 1
eg.
 
THIS IS THE CORRECT WAY TO SUPERSET.

DB Concerntration Curl & Arnold Press
DB Concerntration Curl & Arnold Press 
DB Concerntration Curl & Arnold Press

OR
 
NOT THIS WAY...

DB Concerntration X 3
then only
Arnold Press X 3 ?  

p/s: great to hear that there is someone still doing OA in 2008. Thought that I might be outdated on this great program

 
 
 
Hope that helps..
 

ORIGINAL: mytest0309

Hi all

Another question i would like to ask is that for the Arms exercises
How you guys count is as we need to do Left and Right hand .

It is
Concerntration Curl (L) x 12
Concerntration Curl (R) x 12
Arnold Press x 12

This 3 consider as 1 Superset ?

Hope to see the reply . I'm so new here

 
 
That is correct. Each arm performs 12 reps. I stayed away from the concentration curls when I was on the OA. Try substituting them for barbell curls or drag curls, with proper form they with be better for mass building and you'll be doing half as many reps per set than one arm curls.

ORIGINAL: jube

I havn't been doing any warm up sets either. By the way, I'm on day 2 week 7, and I'm finding this diet very difficult. I'm used to eating dairy in the morning, but according to the protein deprivation cycle, I'm supposed to avoid dairy. So I'm wondering, what are you guys eating for breakfast?

 
I ate bran flakes or oats with no fat milk, its cheating really but I couldn't cut out dairy altogether. 

Thanks quickfinch,

Do you know if on the cheat days (Saturdays) during protein deprivation he allows eating meat and dairy, or we're still supposed to refrain from that.

I gotta say, this program is quite painful. It pays off though, that's for sure.

I think on the cheat days you can eat whatever you want. It will keep you sane!

thanks quickfinch .

Thanks for the prompt reply . It make me clear on the exercises to carry out.

But sometimes it is hard to follow the 1 minute / 2 min rest as the gym equipment is occupy. I need to wait for them to free up the equipment

It is like after I finish DB concertrating curls then rest for 1 min , after that find out all the bench is used up ...so need to wait.

mark i just looked at this program now, are u sure about the LBM gains?

maybe its cause ur already a big guy so more muscle is required to grow an inch in a given place than a thinner guy but u said u only gained 2lb. of fat and gained 11lb. of muscle yet ur waist went up 1.5in. and chest only went up 1/2in. and arms went up .25in.

im not saying its wrong, but im just wondering why waist measurements would go that much with bodyfat staying the same.

I gained 2 lbs of fat.  I carry it in my abdominal region like most men.  My other body part measurements increased as I was using a Myotape, scale and caliper weekly.

Marc C. David - NGA CPT
Author of NoBull Bodybuilding
www.nobullbodybuilding.com

hmm, i may give this a try sometime. i know i can stick to it but ive heard other people, even on this site, say that they did not get results from this routine. maybe it has to do with the individual, or maybe that person wasn't following it correctly


marc, just wondering, since i think u know jeff somewhat well...does he just not want to get any bigger? when i was just starting weightlifting i remember listening to him a lot hearing how he gained so much muscle and his picture looked pretty big but then i saw recent pics after his cut and he just looks like any another thin guy, a little more cut but still not much muscle mass it seems.

David,

I don't really know.  It might surprise some people (including myself) that not everybody wants to be huge and carrying a bunch of mass.  Jeff is in good shape and muscular but not the definition of a bodybuilder that most of us would imagine.  Especially with all the glossy mags and pictures of ultra-mass monsters that defy what's normal.

Jeff's not a thin guy but he's tall.  He's muscular but not somebody you'd expect to be bench pressing 315 lbs for reps.  Still, there's no doubt, he works out, does his homework and is a bodybuilder.

As to why isn't he huge?  It must be a matter of his personal preference as with most of us.

Marc C. David - NGA CPT
Author of NoBull Bodybuilding
www.nobullbodybuilding.com

ok that makes sense. do u have any idea how much he weighs and how tall he is? i think his bf% is around 10ish

Don't know his weight but he's gotta be 6'0 tall at least. 

Here's a picture of me at 5'8" next to him.

I think I'm standing pretty tall.  He's leaning in a bit so he's probably a bit taller?

Marc C. David - NGA CPT
Author of NoBull Bodybuilding
www.nobullbodybuilding.com

yea ive seen that, thats one of the pics i first saw where i was like "what? i thought he was huge" lol. the other was the ones he posted for his new "fat loss" workouts

Hello,
I'm newbie to this OA program. I've read this program and deciced to follow its workout next week.
Now I am confusing with Front Dumbbell Lateral Raise exercise. I've searched thru google but the results was no such kind of that excercise :(
The only excercises I knew so far was:
1. Dumbbell lateral raise at http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidLateral/DBLateralRaise.html
2. Dumbbell Front raise at http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBFrontRaise.html
I wonder which one is the one mentioned as Front Dumbbell Lateral Raise in the OA program

Ah yes, one more question (sorry for my bad english)
The OA said "During Hyper-Adaptive Cycles, decrease the number of sets you perform and excute only enough repetitions to go 2-3 reps short of muscular failure".
I'm newbie to bodybuilding and my english is not very good. I don't fully understand that sentence. Ok, I know I must reduce numer of sets but...does "2-3 reps short of muscular failure" means I mustn't bring my muscles to muscular failure ?
Thanks for your help :D

Yes, that is correct.  You push yourself until you'd have failure in about 2 more reps, but you stop short of those last 2 reps.

Tired of information overload?  Confused about which plan is the right one for you?  Get yourself out of the dark by going to http://www.fitnessexpose.com/ and learn how to get into the best shape

the 2nd one is the exercise u do

I did OA as close to the book as possible and at the end of the 7th week, I believe,whenever the first week of the protein deprivation cycle,  I couldn't take it anymore. My body went into shock deprived of protein. I saw very little gains and thought this just isn't worth it and stopped. I was pretty discourage and pissed off. All that work with the stop watch 5days a week and here I am nto seeing much gains starving.

Now in hindsight, I wish I didn't stop. I emailed Jeff practically cursing the guy, and he told me I cut out right when the serious gains were going to occur. So, my bad!

I realized my body needs to be in better shape overall. I am now on Jeff Anderson't Combat the Fat program and am loving it. This is what I needed, because it works yoru body in an almost power aeorobics way. I think OA may have been to advanced for me. CTF is getting me in better shape. I want to cut soem fat first, and get more fit, before I do a more advanced program liek OA.

ORIGINAL: Acujeremy

Now in hindsight, I wish I didn't stop. I emailed Jeff practically cursing the guy, and he told me I cut out right when the serious gains were going to occur. So, my bad!

lol nice line.

i dont think its really that advanced of a program, just needs discipline. did u see results for the 6-7 weeks before that cycle?

I saw very little reults at the 7th week. I have had much better results from other programs. I felt OA was overtraining. I guess when I say advanced, I mean working out that hard with little protein for one. To me, that takes a serious bad ass to go through that. Also, 5 days a week of total hard training for an hour each time, seemed a little too much for me. Now I am doign the CTF with an extra day a week I ad for Good Ol Fashioned Squats and Deadlifts. Why am I doign his Combat The Fat? Because I need that military style get in shape program right now. Basically, it involves 5 minute bursts of cardio, then a resistance excerice to failure then back to cardio then back to resistance such as pull ups, and push ups. On lifting days it does that military pyramid type thing so you do pull ups, straight to military press then straight to squats all withotu pausing. 1 minute break then do more reps. My body is respondiogn real well to it.

Thanks for reply.
Today is my "day 2" of OA program. I'd like to know the WEIGHT (ex in Dumbbell exercies) we wrote down (in the forrm) is the weight we take on single arm or both arms ? Let say I do Front DB Lateral Side, each hand dumbbell of 10lbs so I will write down 10lbs or 20lbs ?
I also had a hard time to swallow 25% of PROTEIN (about 32gr) RIGHT AFTER workout, then 100gr HI-GI and 32gr of FAT within 1 hour after workout. Fortunately, I didn't go to toilet after that

I forgot to ask about REST PERIOD.
Let say I do superset 1 with Front DB Lateral raise and Arnold Press. The "day1/week1" I did like this:
Front DB Lateral raise, then immediately take Arnold Press (no rest), then rest 1min.
Front DB Lateral raise, then immediately take Arnold Press (no rest), then rest 1min.
Front DB Lateral raise, then immediately take Arnold Press, then rest 2min and jump to superset 2.
Is that correct ?

Or it'll go like this ?
Front DB Lateral raise,  rest 1min, Arnold Press, rest 2min.
Front DB Lateral raise,  rest 1min, Arnold Press, rest 2min.
Front DB Lateral raise,  rest 1min, Arnold Press, rest 2min and jump to supertset 2.
Thanks alot.

ORIGINAL: thinh09

Let say I do Front DB Lateral Side, each hand dumbbell of 10lbs so I will write down 10lbs or 20lbs?
If you use dumbbells write down the weight you're using for a single arm.
 
 

I also had a hard time to swallow 25% of PROTEIN (about 32gr) RIGHT AFTER workout, then 100gr HI-GI and 32gr of FAT within 1 hour after workout.
Post workout shake, 2 scoops of whey protein, 45g maltodextrin-45g dextrose, 32g olive oil or flax seed oil. Skimmed milk.
 
As for rest periods, rest one minute between each exercise in the superset (two exercises). Then when you have performed both exercises take a two minute rest.
 

 



 

ok I got it.
But today I've tried a mixture of 100gr of watermelon juice (according to Google, watermelon is HI-GI) + 32gr olive oil --> it tastes better than drinking olive oil alone. But I wonder if this mixture ok for my body.
Today "day2/week1" workout was really good for me, I felt the bump. But I don't know what "4-COUNT" is. Is it a 4 seconds ?

Do you agree with Jeff Anderson that you should add oil to your post workout shake? I don't think I agree with that. Wouldn't it slow down the assimilation? Also, do you think 100 grams high glycemic index sugar is too high?

ORIGINAL: Acujeremy

Do you agree with Jeff Anderson that you should add oil to your post workout shake? I don't think I agree with that. Wouldn't it slow down the assimilation? Also, do you think 100 grams high glycemic index sugar is too high?

what exactly did he say about the fats? it's been awhile since i read OA

100g might be too much for people. he wrote this solely as a muscle gain program so he put that there to optimize results. its pretty general though so it could be modified if necessary. if u change too many things your not really doing the program though

Like I said, I followed OA To the T and at 7 weeks had very little results.

Jeff says post-workout shake:
100g dextrose
40g protein
30g olive oil

Thats how I remember ti at least.

I prefer 50g protein, 40g dextrose, and thats all folks!

I think OA works, I just couldn't handle the deprivation stage. Call em a pussy if you want. I felt liek I was goign to die. Have you checked out his Combat the Fat program? thats what I been doign lately to chisle the fat. I'm really digging it.

Now I'm in Day1/week 4. Could somebody tell me how to perform Internal Dumbbell Rotation ? It would be nice by image or video illustration. I'm newbie, I've search thru Google but it couldn't give me any clues, reading Jeff's form note couldn't help either. Thanks.

Could someboy tell me the difference between Dumbbell Chest Press and Dumbbell Press To Neck ?
Thanks.

Think about dumbbell chest press as a barbell bench press but with dumbells, and dumbell press to neck like the smith barbell press (which is pretty awesome) with dumbbells. If i don't know of any exercise i search google for the exercise and can usually find helpful pics and videos, that help. Hope that helps.

Anyways, i just joined, and ive been doing Optimum anabolics for 7 and half weeks now. I also did MAX-OT for awhile, for those of you who are familiar with that. Ive enjoyed OA so far, and i hope to see some more results as i continue. I was curious though, does anyone have any pre-routine warmup exercies/stretches or routines that they do? I strect but i always feel like thats not enough. So any suggestions would be appreciated.

I'm also thinking about trying creatine. I've never done it before, but I've talked to people who love it. I was wondering if anyone has any products that they like or can give me any info that I can use when i buy some.

Thanks, i appreciate any response.