Novice - To Bulk or Cut Pics Included - Thank You
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RE: Novice - To Bulk or Cut Pics Included - Thank You - 1/1/2008 2:44:11 PM
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Marc David
Posts: 9128
Joined: 4/6/2003
From: Bay Area -CA
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I always liked this rough chart from Craig Ballantyne.
He says...
Here's the range...if you are at this height and below the
corresponding weight, my rule is you MUST gain MUSCLE...
5'4" - 130 lbs
5'6" - 140 lbs
5'8" - 150 lbs
5'10 - 160 lbs
6'0' - 170 lbs
And so on...5 lbs per inch in either direction.
So at 5'9" and 169 lbs @17 body fat... according to him if you were 155 lbs, you'd want to gain muscle. But if you were 155 lbs, you'd probably be a lot less body fat.. maybe under 10% and pretty ripped.
My take is along the lines of Craig.
17% body fat.. 169 lbs.. I think you should cut. Or else you'll just end up smoother, softer at 175 lbs and probably floating around 19% body fat which puts you at "average"
If you went from 169 lbs to maybe.. the top end.. 155, I would image you'd look bigger, more ripped and then primed for a bulk cycle. At 17%, that's my top end that I get because even on a clean bulk, you stand the risk of putting on excess fat and you really don't want to hit 20% body fat. At that level, your approaching just being puffy, bulky like the Stay-Puff guy and it's not the look you'll be happy with...
My Opinion --> CUT
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(in reply to rcrocka)
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RE: Novice - To Bulk or Cut Pics Included - Thank You - 1/1/2008 3:59:25 PM
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Rex 22
Posts: 267
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline
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I would say cut down bodyfat, but at the same time try to build muscle.
I started out at 6'0 - 170 lbs., so I was at the point where I needed to gain weight, I've managed to gain 11 lbs. of mass while staying the same bodyfat.
_____________________________
Recent Maxes.
Barbell Bench Press - 265 lbs.
Barbell Military Press - 187 lbs.
Barbell Squat - 340 lbs.
Barbell Deadlift - 362 lbs.
(in reply to Marc David)
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RE: Novice - To Bulk or Cut Pics Included - Thank You - 1/1/2008 4:21:38 PM
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smoundzou
Posts: 2249
Joined: 5/4/2007
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I guess I'll be the odd man out because I definately think he should bulk..
Reasoning... He's only been training for 4 months.. prime time to put on some easy muscle mass, not to mention the fact he's only 21 years old..
The more muscle mass he gains right now, the easier it will be to drop the extra fat later down the road.. besides,he's no where near being obese..
Being new to training with a good clean diet, 80-90% of the gain could easily be lean muscle mass...
_____________________________
If everyone is thinking alike then somebody isn't thinking. ~George S. Patton
Current
Age: 45
Height: 5'11
Weight:216
BF: 12-13%
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DoNotClick
(in reply to Rex 22)
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RE: Novice - To Bulk or Cut Pics Included - Thank You - 1/1/2008 5:42:15 PM
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edrice2
Posts: 916
Joined: 6/22/2007
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what you might be able to do, is eat around your maintenance levels. you will probably experience a change in bodyfat levels...no guarantess but its fairly common to see that among beginners with a good consistent program and diet
its hard to say, its really your call. most people are probably going to say cut, i dunno i like the idea of eating around maintenance and riding out newbie gains.
but i also think you might be able to keep motivated more by cutting since youll see some definite changes and be leaner.
my opinion is mixed, leaning towards maintence level or cutting
_____________________________
height: 5'8.5"
current weight: 152 (increasing quicker...)
goal for end of march: 160+
bulking:
start weight: 142.5 (141.5 low)
3-day full body routine/upper-lower split
(in reply to rcrocka)
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RE: Novice - To Bulk or Cut Pics Included - Thank You - 1/1/2008 6:17:02 PM
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Rex 22
Posts: 267
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: smoundzou
I guess I'll be the odd man out because I definately think he should bulk..
Reasoning... He's only been training for 4 months.. prime time to put on some easy muscle mass, not to mention the fact he's only 21 years old..
The more muscle mass he gains right now, the easier it will be to drop the extra fat later down the road.. besides,he's no where near being obese..
Being new to training with a good clean diet, 80-90% of the gain could easily be lean muscle mass...
You have a good point.
_____________________________
Recent Maxes.
Barbell Bench Press - 265 lbs.
Barbell Military Press - 187 lbs.
Barbell Squat - 340 lbs.
Barbell Deadlift - 362 lbs.
(in reply to smoundzou)
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RE: Novice - To Bulk or Cut Pics Included - Thank You - 1/2/2008 4:19:12 AM
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smoundzou
Posts: 2249
Joined: 5/4/2007
Status: offline
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Thanks, another thing I've noticed about lots of people is, once they cut down and get the slightest sign of abs showing, it's like it does something to them and they're affraid to eat.. due to not wanting to lose the abs.. I think it actually hurts their progress in the long run..
quote:
ORIGINAL: Rex 22
quote:
ORIGINAL: smoundzou
I guess I'll be the odd man out because I definately think he should bulk..
Reasoning... He's only been training for 4 months.. prime time to put on some easy muscle mass, not to mention the fact he's only 21 years old..
The more muscle mass he gains right now, the easier it will be to drop the extra fat later down the road.. besides,he's no where near being obese..
Being new to training with a good clean diet, 80-90% of the gain could easily be lean muscle mass...
You have a good point.
< Message edited by smoundzou -- 1/2/2008 4:39:14 AM >
_____________________________
If everyone is thinking alike then somebody isn't thinking. ~George S. Patton
Current
Age: 45
Height: 5'11
Weight:216
BF: 12-13%
=========
DoNotClick
(in reply to Rex 22)
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RE: Novice - To Bulk or Cut Pics Included - Thank You - 1/2/2008 6:03:16 AM
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RollingStone
Posts: 667
Joined: 12/15/2007
From: Pittsburgh
Status: offline
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cut
_____________________________
I will do today what you won't... so tomorrow I can do what you can't
Everything I've ever done was out of fear of being mediocre.
Height 6'0"
196 lbs BF 8-9
age 17
bench 280
squat ATG 315
deadlift 400
Power Clean 215
Current Goal: to cut 8lbs fat and gain strength simultaneously
(in reply to smoundzou)
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RE: Novice - To Bulk or Cut Pics Included - Thank You - 1/2/2008 12:22:11 PM
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rcrocka
Posts: 12
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
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Thank you to everyone! Sincerely appreciate the advice. I guess I'll cut do some strength training while I am at it and keep my diet clean hopefully be ready to bulk in a couple months. Thanks again I'll keep everyone posted. Happy New Year to everyone.
(in reply to RollingStone)
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RE: Novice - To Bulk or Cut Pics Included - Thank You - 1/2/2008 2:02:21 PM
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Rex 22
Posts: 267
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline
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Since smoundzou braught it up. I think I'd agree you should bulk too bro...
If you're a beginner (as in 4 months) perhaps you should continue building muscle for maybe another cycle or 2 before you should begin to define muscle. Building muscle can take a long time, and for some people who go straight into cutting get cut and realize their not enough muscle mass there to be satisfied with.
If you begin a clean diet and keep up with cardio, your bodyfat should gradually go down and if you continue to lift big your size should go up a bit too. But you can probably see things from either way here.
_____________________________
Recent Maxes.
Barbell Bench Press - 265 lbs.
Barbell Military Press - 187 lbs.
Barbell Squat - 340 lbs.
Barbell Deadlift - 362 lbs.
(in reply to rcrocka)
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RE: Novice - To Bulk or Cut Pics Included - Thank You - 1/2/2008 7:19:02 PM
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_Virtuoso_
Posts: 1486
Joined: 10/4/2006
Status: offline
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I would say cut to around 12-13% BF, whilst lifting still (seeing as you aren't far from being at your prime age to gain muscle), then once you hit 12-13%bf go for clean bulk with a fair bit of cardio to shed another 2-3% bf - not to mention if you cut before you start packing on the muscle, then it will save you having to lose muscle whilst cutting later on.
< Message edited by _Virtuoso_ -- 1/2/2008 7:20:55 PM >
(in reply to Rex 22)
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