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Will0036

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NO products - Friday, March 02, 2007 11:38 AM
I just completed my first week with NO-shotgun and Ill have to say I am pretty disappointed. I was taking NO-xplode on and off for about the last year. Even when i built up a tolerance for no-x i felt more of a pump. I find that with this stuff it doesnt give me the same mental focus either. after i finish this stuff i think ill give it a 2 week rest and then go back to no-x. although i did go straight from no-x to no-shotgun, i would think that it wouldn't have any effect on how good it works. I take the no-shotgun immediately when i wake up in the morning and then take my animal pak 30 min later and then began my workout. any comments?
 
supps: no-shotgun, animal pak, cell mass, whey 100%, muscle milk, glucosomine
<message edited by Will0036 on Friday, March 02, 2007 11:41 AM>
danmirage

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RE: NO products - Saturday, March 03, 2007 12:16 PM
Problem #1
Your expectation of what NO is and what it does is wrong.  You do not FEEL anything.  It is very subtle.  More on that later.
 
Problem #2
Caffeine is addictive and adaptive...it is what gives you the "mental focus" and "rush" feeling...however it is also an anti-anabolic.
 
Problem #3
AMOUNTS of Ingredients of these supplements are hidden from consumers so they can not determine proper dosage.
 
You see, the response from Arganine or Beta Alanine or any other performance enhancer are dose dependant...meaning there is a minimum dose necessary to elicit the desired training effect!
 
Lets look at NO shotgun as an example:
---------------------------------
Proprietary BCAAEX-NV (Branched Chain Ethyl
Ester Amino Acid Matrix) 5,350mg
-L-Leucine
-L-2-Aminopentanoic Acid (L-nor-Valine)
-L-Leucine Ethyl Ester HCl
-L-Valine Ethyl Ester HCl
-L-Isoleucine Ethyl Ester HCl
 
Proprietary Muscle Volumizing, NO2,
Insullnotropic and Glutamine Matrix 10,952mg
-Methyl Hydroxy Chaicone Polymer (MHCP 80%)
-CEX (Creatine Ethyl Ester HCl)
-AEX (Arginine Ethyl Ester HCl)
-GEX (L-Glutamine Ethyl Ester HCl)
-Di-L-Arginine Malate
-Citrulline Malate
-BPOV (Bis Picolinato Oxo Vanadium)
 
Power, Speed, Strength and Endurance Matrix
-KIC (Ketoisocaproic Acid Calcium)
-Guanidiopropionic Acid (GPA)
-Orotic Acid
-Creatine Magnesium Chelate
-BAEX (Beta-Alanine Ethyl Ester HCl)
-Glycine
-Creatine Monohydrate
-Phosphates
 
RedLine Energy Technology 220mg
-L-TEX (L-Tyrosine Ethyl Ester HCl)
-Evoburn (Pure Evodiamine)
-Vinpocetine
-Caffeine Anhydrous
-Folate (as Folic Acid)~100%
--------------------
 or  No- explode as an example
----------------------
N.O.-Xplode™'s Proprietary Blend 20,500mg **
(Contains A Patented Nutrient Suspension Matrix & Efforsorb™ Delivery System)
 
N.O. Meta-Fusion™(Patent Pending)  **
L-Arginine AKG,
L-Citrulline Malate,
L-Citrulline AKG,
L-Histidine AKG,
RC-NOS™ (Rutacarpine 95%),
Gynostemma Pentaphyllum (Gypenosides 95%),
NAD (Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide)
 
Muscle Volumizing Creatine Matrix(Patent Pending)  **
CEM3™ (Creatine Ethyl Ester Malate), Di-Creatine Malate), Trimethylglycine, Glycocyamine, Guanidino Proplonic Acid, Cinnulin PF® (Aqueous Cinnamon Extract), Ketoisocaproate Potassium
 
Ener-Tropic Xplosion™(Patent Pending)  **
L-Tyrosine,
L-Tyrosine AKG,
Taurine,
Glucuronolactone,
Methylxanthine (Caffeine),
MCT's (Medium Chain Triglycerides),
Vinpocetine 99%,
Vincamine 99%,
Vinburnine 99%
 
Phospho-Electrolyte Replacements™  **
Di-Calcium Phosphate, Di-Potassium Phosphate, Di-Sodium Phosphate
 
Glycerol Hydrating Polymers™  **
Potassium Glycerophosphate, Magnesium Glycerophosphate, Glycerol Stearate
--------------------
You have no idea how much of the key performance enhancers are in there, because they obscure the amounts in bogus terminology.

I am guessing you have no idea what these ingredients are really suppose to do and are taking it because its suppose to help you get results?

Yea...well l-Arganine can promote NO productio which will relax the blood vessels and allow them to carry more blood.  Citrulline and antioxidants enhance this behavior.   It also acts as a very powerful antioxidant.
 
Beta-Alanine (3-6 grams) and creatine monohydrate (~5 grams) can increase performance if each is taken at a sufficient dose...otherwise...they have minimal effect.

However some other ingredients like caffeine crank you up if you don't normally use it, it also suppresses the appetite and makes you piss.

Some of the other ingredients simply give you a flushed feeling.  No kidding.

Lots of fancy sounding stuff with a nice price tag...but you really don't know what all is in there.

Does it work?  To do what..what were you expecting?  Are you telling me you bought into the expensive ad campaigns they put out?
 
Ok enough spanking...lets talk about the reality.

L-Arganine (4-6 grams) works even more powerfully when L-Citrulline (200-1000g), Vit C (500mg), Vit E (200iu), Folic Acid (400 - 800 mcg) and Alpha Lipoic Acid (10mg) per day are taken as well.  Most of this is covered in your multivitamin or antioxidant.

Your diet can positively or adversley effect NO production.

Best times to take L-Arganine are pre bed or pre workout.

For a deeper understanding of its use and history you can read a very simple book on L-Arganine by the doctor who won the Nobel Prize in Medicine for discovering the importance of Nitric Oxide to the cardiovascular system, Dr Ignarro:
No More Heart Disease

If you want more focus, try taking a week off caffeine and drink green tea before you train.
 
Then maybe take creatine an hour out, then essential aminos just before you train...
 
If you want to boost NO (which you will not feel) take L-Arganine and maybe even Citrulline.
 
L-Arganine <---- the pure stuff...much better price and you know what you are getting.
 
If you want even more performance boost, look into beta alanine.
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_177727/mpage_1/tm.htm#179724
danmirage

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RE: NO products - Saturday, March 03, 2007 12:26 PM
P.S.
 
I meant to mention that there are nootropic mood enhancers like vinpocetene that you are probably not accustomed to using...
 
There are also a TON of artificial ingredients in there...look at the bottom of the label under "other ingredients"...artificial colors, flavors, sweeteners.
 
In the end the greatest effect of these supplements has little to do with results, only how you feel in the gym.
 
You could go off the fancy supplements, save $60 a month and, in 2 weeks, be gaining 1-2 pounds a month of muscle with only proper food intake and timing, rest, intensive training, and minimal supplements.
crayZkid

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RE: NO products - Saturday, March 03, 2007 12:59 PM
Dan, what are good sources or supplements including:
L-Citrulline
Folic Acid
Alpha Lipoic Acid
L-Arginine
Beta Alanine
23 yrs. old
5'11"
215 lbs. down to 198 lbs.
danmirage

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RE: NO products - Saturday, March 03, 2007 9:34 PM
You still want to discuss that craZKid or did the other NO thread answer that?
crayZkid

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RE: NO products - Sunday, March 04, 2007 8:16 AM
I read the thread but I still don't understand what L-Arginine does, or where you can get L-Citrulline, Alpha Lipoic Acid, or Beta Alanine?
23 yrs. old
5'11"
215 lbs. down to 198 lbs.
TylerDurden

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RE: NO products - Sunday, March 04, 2007 9:33 AM
hey dan, is caffeine really that anti-anabolic?
Will0036

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RE: NO products - Sunday, March 04, 2007 12:27 PM
thanks dan, i think ill def try the more natural supps.
what do you think about the rest of my stack
 
supps: pre-workout: no-shotgun, animal pak
          post workout: cell mass, whey 100%
          pre bed: muscle milk, glutamine

danmirage

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RE: NO products - Sunday, March 04, 2007 3:07 PM
CrayZkid
 
Remember we are talking about a very small refinement to your training.  Not some gargantuan performance enhancer.
 

I still don't understand what L-Arginine does

L-Arganine can promote NO production which will relax the blood vessels and allow them to carry more blood.  Citrulline and antioxidants enhance this behavior.   It also acts as a very powerful antioxidant.
 

where you can get L-Citrulline, Alpha Lipoic Acid, or Beta Alanine?

Most NO products also have Alpha Lipoic Acid and L-Citrulline.
 
Some antioxidant products have both and many multi vitamins have Alpha Lipoic Acid.
 
Beta-Alanine is a bit more of a trick..most of the current products have too much junk. 
 
You can get a nice price on Bulk Beta-Alanine <---link
You can get it in time release formula as linked in the thread on it, however ideally you still take 3-6 pills spread throughout the day and is high priced (0.79 cents - $1.58 a day) compared to bulk (0.18 - 0.36 cents).
 
Remember, your training, diet and rest need to be getting you regular results  BEFORE you even think of using this supplement...otherwise you are wasting your money.
 
Tyler Durden

hey dan, is caffeine really that anti-anabolic?

 
In short, yes.
 
Long answer:
Regular intake of caffeine reduces muscle strength and resistance training performance by slowing down the muscle contraction and relaxation cycle.
 
High intake of caffeine also displaces calcium absorption, which may explain the adverse effect to muscle contractions, as calcium plays an important role in nervous system function, as well as bone growth and structure.
 
Chronic, day-after-day ingestion of caffeine should be avoided during serious periods of anabolic training. Occasional (once or twice a week) pick-me-up caffeine is less damaging, but ideally abstaining from caffeine intake is best to be optimally anabolic.
 
My recommendation:
Save it for your cutting cycle.
 
WILL0036
 

supps: pre-workout: no-shotgun, animal pak

THE animal pak should be taken shortly after the MEAL that is before your workout...not just before you train.
 

         post workout: cell mass, whey 100%
        
Cell mass immediatly post work out...whey maybe 30 minutes later.  you don't want to mix these together or you waste the cell mass and may as well take electrolytes and creatine.
 

 pre bed: muscle milk, glutamine

Last meal should be a MEAL not a MRP...and 60-90 minutes before bed.
Then, 2 grams Glutamine immediatly pre bed.  Otherwise you waste it.
Will0036

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RE: NO products - Monday, March 05, 2007 2:25 PM
yah man those are the exact guidlines i follow when i take these sups. I workout first thing in the morning so the meal before i workout is no-shotgun or no-x and then 30 min later i take animal pak and then workout. on non training days i take cell mass first thing in the morning then 30 min later ill take animal pak
danmirage

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RE: NO products - Monday, March 05, 2007 4:29 PM
You should not take animal pack immediatly before you trian.
danmirage

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RE: NO products - Monday, March 05, 2007 4:30 PM
What kind of training are you doing first thing in the morning on an empty stomach...?
Will0036

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RE: NO products - Monday, March 05, 2007 10:10 PM
yah my training is in the morning first thing
age: 21
height: 6' 2"
weight: 212
danmirage

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RE: NO products - Monday, March 05, 2007 11:40 PM
Addressed in the other thread.
STFU_Joe

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RE: NO products - Saturday, March 17, 2007 7:01 PM
I've read that arganine should be taken on an empty stomach, does this also go for citrulline supplementation?
26yo, 5'9", 157 lbs.
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