Muscle Asylum Project Arson

Jesus Christ this is strong. 300mgs of caffeine per dose I had two hours sleep but have been buzzing and feeling like hell all night after 2 doses of this.

Forever on season

I got a sample at a trade show.  It is just walking a thin line IMHO.

Just keep in mind that caffeine will interfere with creatine absorption.  So if you are constantly buzzing and taking this plus drinking coffee, absorption will be diminished with as little as 150mg.

Which is just under 1 cup of regular coffee.

So watch your intake and if you do use creatine, don't take it and this around the same time.

Marc C. David - NGA CPT
Author of NoBull Bodybuilding
www.nobullbodybuilding.com

Well you learn something new each day. I had no idea it affected creatine absorption. I read that 300 mgs of caffeine is classified as the start of an ''overdose'' in some people and believe me if you take it on an empty stomach you see why.

Forever on season

"Caffeine will diminish the benefits that creatine has to offer. Research has shown that relatively moderate caffeine consumption (the equivalent of 2-3 cups a day) fully negates the physical benefits typically afforded by creatine. Specifically, ingesting 5 mgs of caffeine per kilogram of bodyweight (~350 mgs for an average sized male) for 3-6 days consecutively, completely counteracts the benefits of creatine supplementation over dynamic torque production and the speed of muscle recovery following high frequency contractures."

Source: Creatine: A Practical Guide

Marc C. David - NGA CPT
Author of NoBull Bodybuilding
www.nobullbodybuilding.com

Marc David


"Caffeine will diminish the benefits that creatine has to offer. Research has shown that relatively moderate caffeine consumption (the equivalent of 2-3 cups a day) fully negates the physical benefits typically afforded by creatine. Specifically, ingesting 5 mgs of caffeine per kilogram of bodyweight (~350 mgs for an average sized male) for 3-6 days consecutively, completely counteracts the benefits of creatine supplementation over dynamic torque production and the speed of muscle recovery following high frequency contractures."

Source: Creatine: A Practical Guide

well my creatine is still working and i take around 800mg or more of caffeine a day so no.  Or at least not for me.

Best/Goals by christmas '09
P. Snatch: 185/200
full FS: 315/340
atg oly BS: 405/440
Deadlift: 515/no goal
weight: 210/205

Get Strong or Die Trying

Vandenberghe, K. et al. (1996) Caffeine counteracts the ergogenic action of muscle creatine loading. J Appl Physiol, Volume 80(2), pages 452-457.

Hespel, P. et al. (2002) Opposite actions of caffeine and creatine on muscle relaxation time in humans. J Appl Physiol, Volume 92, pages 513-518.

Doherty, M. et al. (2002) Caffeine is ergogenic after supplementation of oral creatine monohydrate. Med Sci Sports Exerc, Volume 34, pages 1785-1792.

Marc C. David - NGA CPT
Author of NoBull Bodybuilding
www.nobullbodybuilding.com

I've just started ethyl esther I know it's not the most researched creatine but I was on creapure about 6 weeks ago and want to give it a try.

Forever on season

Does this mean creatine in pre-workout supps and taking creatine while on pre workout would be useless?

Creatine Ethyl Ester was deemed quite the load of dog doo.  It's marketing hype without basis.

Creapure is what Will Brink recommends as apparently it's not made in China.  Although I'm not adverse to supplements that are made in China.  But it's his favorite brand for that reason and possibly others.

Creatine in pre-workout and post-workout drinks is a good question.  Depends on what else is tossed in there that could interfere with absorption.  Many times there's little science on this guys.  They toss in everything because more is better and you can make more claims. 

You'd need to find out how much caffeine per serving is in there to determine that.  But if it's upwards of 150mg or more, then according to research.. yes it would make it less effective to useless.

Hardly anybody thinks about this.  All they care about is...

It has creatine!  It has caffeine for energy!

Winner-Winner!  And then go off it later to say at first it worked (probably high caffeine) to later it didn't work as well (body's adaptation to the caffeine).

I'm not a 100% research kinda guy but you've got to give some credit to studies vs. Bro Logic and the old "It works for me."

Marc C. David - NGA CPT
Author of NoBull Bodybuilding
www.nobullbodybuilding.com

is it only less effective if you take high amounts of caffeine around the time you take creatine, or anytime, like if you drank two cups of coffee at 9am and took creatine after your workout at 5pm would that be ok?

Current Stack:
FOOD!!!
Opti-Men Multi
Universal Storm 
ON 100% Whey
Muscle Milk
Jacked Pre-Workout
Flax Oil

My understanding was higher amounts around the time you take it as it inhibits absorption.  In your example, I believe that to be the case.  But these workout supplements have high levels of caffeine and creatine.  You get the enhances from the caffeine and potentially nothing from creatine.

It's a quirky business.  Supplement timing gets brushed off but in fact, it's quite relevant.  Especially when you take a lot of various products and they inhibit and interfere with each other.

Marc C. David - NGA CPT
Author of NoBull Bodybuilding
www.nobullbodybuilding.com