Massbuilding - *MB Part II pg. 16*
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 Massbuilding - *MB Part II pg. 16*

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PureNatural

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RE: Begginers Natural Bodybuilding - Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:22 AM
GLD1,

good job keep it up my friend, regarding to weights simply just add 5 pounds your next workout and you'll be amazed later on how much weight you've added.

Wrists, don't worry about it,along the way when doing heavy deads it's going to help strengthen your grip along with your wrists.

In the mean time keep it up and good luck!
<message edited by PureNatural on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:31 AM>
EpsilonX5

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RE: Begginers Natural Bodybuilding - Tuesday, April 11, 2006 8:01 AM
I think I'll try changing up my routine to more like this then. Im tyring to gain lots of mass.

I'm currently training 4 days a week with these groups.

Set 1
Chest, Triceps

Set 2
Legs, calves

Set 3
Shoulers, Traps, Lower back

Set 4
Back, Bicps, Forearms

So I should combine this to 3 days then?
If so I think I'd go like this.

Set 1
Chest, Shoulers, Triceps

Set 2
Legs, calves, Lower back

Set 3
Back, Bicps, Forearms, Traps

Is this better then?

And I thought I was doing little enough reps, but I guess not.

I ussually do my reps like this

1st 15 rep
2nd 12-10 reps
3rd 8 reps
4th 6-4 reps

So then I should start off with much less and try to stay around that amount?

Maybe like
1st 8 reps
2nd 6 reps
3rd 4 reps

or lower that that?
and what to do about 3 or 4 sets or each excercise?

I think I'm gona try starting thiis today cause I'm not gaining much mass only cuts.

Age: 20

Height: 5ft 10in

Weght 156
Vegetarian

Critque my Physique
GLD1

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RE: Begginers Natural Bodybuilding - Tuesday, April 11, 2006 8:19 AM
Follow the programme as PureNatural has outlined...

The big three compound exercises are incorporated (Deadlift, Bench, Squat) so for adding mass for first timers it is ideal. Don't worry about the lack of sets...you will see the gains.

@ Pure Natural...I'm going to go up a wee bit more than 5lbs next workout, altho i'm sure the week after will be back to small increments! Thanks for the Support!
11.04.06:
Age: 22
Weight: 211 Lbs - 96 KG
Height: 6'
Body Fat: 22.13%

I LOVE LEG DAY!!
PureNatural

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RE: Begginers Natural Bodybuilding - Tuesday, April 11, 2006 8:22 AM
Deathscythex:
As outlined above and what GLD1 has mentioned, no hard feelings I shouldn't have to repeat this but this should be be last time. But don't worry it's not a problem.


Well Include the big 3(squat,bench,dead) & spread them out

You should have ches,shoulders,tri in between legs and lower back.

Also don't do lower back and legs together. Heavy squats puts pressure on lower back as well. Squats and deads are to much for lower back. You need freash back to start off. Don't get that misconception that you'll be totally be isolating legs, or back, on every workout you will be possibly using almost every muscle.

Another thing traps,forearms and bi's get hit greatly doing heavy deadlifts. Remove any isolation exercise

Lastly, reps should be 5-6. If you prefer 4 sets. Than do 6 reps of same weight and when you complete 6 reps of 4 sets add 5 pounds the next week.

So your routine should look like this.

Day 1
Back:
deadlift
rows or wide grip chins or dumbell rows
close grip chins or hammer curls or barbell curls or dumbell curls

Day2:
Chest,shoulder,tri's:
Flat bb/dumbell bench or incline or decline or wide-grip dips.
Military press, barbell/dumbell
Close grip bench or parallel dips

Day3
Legs,calves:
Squat
SLDL
Standing Calve raises

Goodluck with training!

GLD1:

Not a problem, I've done the same, first couple of weeks may not count due to finding right weights ,correct form, how long you recover ect. That is fine. I've added more than 5 when I got to my third week on rows and now I'm challenge by amount of weight on rows right now that has been added since then.

Just keep it up and train hard my friend. I've been told theres difference between guys who train and guys who train hard.

Just keep it up, you will amaze yourself!
<message edited by PureNatural on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 8:32 AM>
EpsilonX5

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RE: Begginers Natural Bodybuilding - Tuesday, April 11, 2006 1:49 PM
I just came back from training just now and tried something similar to the program you layed out.

Warm-up: Riding to the gym on my bike.

Start:
Chest
Flat dumbbell bench press
2 sets 110 lbs x 6 reps 
1 set 110 lbs x 4 reps

Incline dumbbell bench press
2 sets 110 lbs x 6 reps 
1 set 110 lbs x 4 reps

Shoulders
2 sets 76 lbs x 6 reps 
1 set 76 lbs x 4 reps

Pull overs
44 lbs 8 reps
55 lbs 8 reps
66 lbs 6 reps

Triceps
2 sets 30 lbs x 8 reps outward cable pull
2 sets 44 lbs x 8 reps downward cable pull

Abdominal excersises

I guess this is more excercises than you outlined but I was'nt seeing how certain body parts were fitting in like shoulders, it would only be a little worked by the incline and millatary.

But since I'm now trying this method for the first try I was'nt able to make a complete change of routine in one try, it would be more gradual. For instance minimising the number of days from 4 to 3, I had to find time to do proper shoulder execise.

Anyway I was wondering about the time frame, just about how long should this routine take per session, about 1 hour?

Oh and I almost forgot, should I stretch between each set?

Thanks.
<message edited by DeathscytheX5 on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 1:51 PM>
Age: 20

Height: 5ft 10in

Weght 156
Vegetarian

Critque my Physique
GLD1

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RE: Begginers Natural Bodybuilding - Tuesday, April 11, 2006 4:46 PM
I did my routine in around 35-40 mins...

I always stretch between sets as well, nothing hard, just a bit of light stuff, because my body likes to break lol....I guess the stretching is an individual thing.

Part of the reason my workout was only 35 mins was the fact htat the pool at my gym was full of hot honey's and, to my despair, i just had to get in the sauna with them!! Ooops....
11.04.06:
Age: 22
Weight: 211 Lbs - 96 KG
Height: 6'
Body Fat: 22.13%

I LOVE LEG DAY!!
PureNatural

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RE: Begginers Natural Bodybuilding - Tuesday, April 11, 2006 6:37 PM

ORIGINAL: DeathscytheX5

I just came back from training just now and tried something similar to the program you layed out.

Warm-up: Riding to the gym on my bike.

Start:
Chest
Flat dumbbell bench press
2 sets 110 lbs x 6 reps 
1 set 110 lbs x 4 reps

Incline dumbbell bench press
2 sets 110 lbs x 6 reps 
1 set 110 lbs x 4 reps

Shoulders
2 sets 76 lbs x 6 reps 
1 set 76 lbs x 4 reps

Pull overs
44 lbs 8 reps
55 lbs 8 reps
66 lbs 6 reps

Triceps
2 sets 30 lbs x 8 reps outward cable pull
2 sets 44 lbs x 8 reps downward cable pull

Abdominal excersises

I guess this is more excercises than you outlined but I was'nt seeing how certain body parts were fitting in like shoulders, it would only be a little worked by the incline and millatary.

But since I'm now trying this method for the first try I was'nt able to make a complete change of routine in one try, it would be more gradual. For instance minimising the number of days from 4 to 3, I had to find time to do proper shoulder execise.

Anyway I was wondering about the time frame, just about how long should this routine take per session, about 1 hour?

Oh and I almost forgot, should I stretch between each set?

Thanks.


DeathscytheX5:

If you want to gain mass as much as possible and working on 3 day split, first of all like I said and is mentioned on the article remove any isolation exercises, remove pullovers,tri-cep cable exercises, your messing up the routine my friend. They are complete waste of time when bulking!

If you want to do 2 chest movements, remove any tri-cep exercise why? It's simple your going to do 2 heavy chest movements, along with heavy military press which makes you work hard enough to hit tri-ceps. Therefore by time you get to your third exercise of push, your tri-cep should be exausted when doing it correctly because you are doing compound lifts using almost every muscle of the body. If you think of adding another exercise because you think your tri's aren't going to be worked enough, think again or else you will overtrain with 20 sets on bulking routine. To Taxing and you will lack prioritization which taking to long to work out.

So its either flat dumbell press, incline bench press, military press, or flat dumbell press, military press, dips, or flat dumbell press, military press, close grip bench press.

You need to inlude at least bench and military press, very important for core and overhead strength and to built strong trunk.It's not neccessary to direct tri-cep movement when doing heavy presses because they will greatly be in need to push those weights. Stick with 3 exercises, on 3 day split, either 5x5 or 4x6.

Regards to time frame, your workout session should last 45-hour not including warming up or stretching.

For stretches, you have time to stretch each set while your recuperating to go to next set so yes its fine to stretch at each set.

Keep it up and don't add any isolation exercises. But feel free to mix it up if you want to prioritise your weakness but don't mix it up because you like one exercise more then the other.

Goodluck with training!
<message edited by PureNatural on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 6:44 PM>
PureNatural

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RE: Begginers Natural Bodybuilding - Tuesday, April 11, 2006 6:40 PM

ORIGINAL: GLD1

I did my routine in around 35-40 mins...

I always stretch between sets as well, nothing hard, just a bit of light stuff, because my body likes to break lol....I guess the stretching is an individual thing.

Part of the reason my workout was only 35 mins was the fact htat the pool at my gym was full of hot honey's and, to my despair, i just had to get in the sauna with them!! Ooops....


GLD1:

Stay focus my friend, don't get distracted. I know when my girl is at gym and it's some what distracting because When ever she's around I want to be with her, but you know what it's workout time and only last about 1hr tops, so pretty much do what ever you want after.

anyways hope you got the number of those honey's, but stay focus and do it after.

Good luck with training my friend!
<message edited by PureNatural on Tuesday, April 11, 2006 6:42 PM>
GLD1

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RE: Begginers Natural Bodybuilding - Wednesday, April 12, 2006 10:01 AM
Hehe of course i stayed focused...I look like the most annoyed person in the world when i'm in the gym...focus is on the exercise and the exercise only...

People tend to stay away from me cos i look rather crazy haha...

By the way, i ache in all the right spots today, great set of exercises to do together...
11.04.06:
Age: 22
Weight: 211 Lbs - 96 KG
Height: 6'
Body Fat: 22.13%

I LOVE LEG DAY!!
PureNatural

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RE: Begginers Natural Bodybuilding - Wednesday, April 12, 2006 6:19 PM

ORIGINAL: GLD1

Hehe of course i stayed focused...I look like the most annoyed person in the world when i'm in the gym...focus is on the exercise and the exercise only...

People tend to stay away from me cos i look rather crazy haha...

By the way, i ache in all the right spots today, great set of exercises to do together...


GLD1:

lol, alright my friend just as long your focus. One of main keys.

Well since you were aching in right spots, your doing exercises correctly and routine done right as well, now sleep as much as possible, eat alot and simply rest until soreness is completely gone and then go to your next workout.

Keep it up, your doing it correctly. That is good

Good luck and keep at it my friend!
Murrdog

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RE: Begginers Natural Bodybuilding - Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:35 PM
PureNatural,

I am really enjoying reading about this work out plan.  I have been struggling getting into what I felt was best. I have tried mixing things up a bit... but for the most part, I have been doing my compounds first and my iso's last, and it has worked for me so far... if gaining 21 lbs in 3 months is good.  But I think what you are presenting to us looks right up my ally.
 
Now, I don't have experience doing dead lifts or squats.  Are these two exercises a MUST... or are there other exercises that can be supplemented?  I know you said they were a must... just seeing if there was an alternative.
 
Also... have you spoken to anyone in a higher age than yourself about this plan?  The reason I ask is that as we men get older, we produce less testosterone.  Where you are 18 (I think I remember you saying in another thread) you produce A LOT more than I do at 28.  Didn't know if this was something great for the younger ones than those sitting around 30.
 
I am excited about trying this out.  I'll come back here and post my progess in a month or so.  I have a terrible time building my chest and arms... so hopefully this will help.
 
 
Started scrawny...

1/1/2006... 5'8" at 130 lbs

4/13/2006... 5'8" at 151 lbs

Progress is being made!
GLD1

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RE: Begginers Natural Bodybuilding - Thursday, April 13, 2006 3:16 PM
I'd say squats and deads are a must...
 
However make sure you take the time to learn the correct technique first before worrying about adding weight.
 
Don't worry about the testo either, especially if your diet is dandy!!
 
My advice is to learn to squat and deadlift safely, then get stuck into this regime with a good diet for aout 8 weeks and see how you go!
11.04.06:
Age: 22
Weight: 211 Lbs - 96 KG
Height: 6'
Body Fat: 22.13%

I LOVE LEG DAY!!
PureNatural

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RE: Begginers Natural Bodybuilding - Thursday, April 13, 2006 4:58 PM

ORIGINAL: Murrdog

PureNatural,

I am really enjoying reading about this work out plan.  I have been struggling getting into what I felt was best. I have tried mixing things up a bit... but for the most part, I have been doing my compounds first and my iso's last, and it has worked for me so far... if gaining 21 lbs in 3 months is good.  But I think what you are presenting to us looks right up my ally.

Now, I don't have experience doing dead lifts or squats.  Are these two exercises a MUST... or are there other exercises that can be supplemented?  I know you said they were a must... just seeing if there was an alternative.

Also... have you spoken to anyone in a higher age than yourself about this plan?  The reason I ask is that as we men get older, we produce less testosterone.  Where you are 18 (I think I remember you saying in another thread) you produce A LOT more than I do at 28.  Didn't know if this was something great for the younger ones than those sitting around 30.

I am excited about trying this out.  I'll come back here and post my progess in a month or so.  I have a terrible time building my chest and arms... so hopefully this will help.




Murrdog:

Hey what’s up sir,

Hey don’t worry about struggling, sooner or later it will stop, that’s good your struggling, proves how much your willing to put yourself towards being successful in bodybuilding, remember in life you will have a lot walls your going hit, just a matter trying to get to the other side.

Well that is good, 21 lbs in 3 months, really impressed your doing good job so far.
Accordingly if you want to bulk and build muscle mass you have to depend on compound movements my friend, because they will hit almost every single muscle on the body, remove any isolations if your considering to bulk, because from experience doesn’t do any good when it comes to bulking.

Yes squats and deads are a must, why, because you don’t get hurt from training deads and squats, you hurt if you don’t do them. How you may asks? It’s simple, you will create strength imbalance and may cause injury. For an example if you exclude squat and dead’s, you possible can hurt your lower back from doing military presses, bench, rows or any compound exercises having lower back invovle because your lower back is weakened and is valuable to being a strong stabilizer for those exercises. As well not only to prevent injury but strong lower back can help increase your strength for other compound exercises. And squats and deads are great for building mass, naturally, when worked hard they can develop quicker and bigger muscle mass then any leg or back isolation exercise, with deads, you simply hit calves,quads,glutes,hams,forearms,bi-cep,your traps,your lats basically almost everything and as well as squats you hit almost every single body part in the body. I’ve develop my calves simply by jus doing squats because of how hard I worked on them. I’ll email you the squat and dead lift technique so don’t worry about it.

This can be great for anybody as long there body has fully grown and develop.
The one who came up with this routine which is Frankie NY he’s 43 and doing 600lb on deads from one of threads I read.

And give us feed back, regarding to arms, sometimes it’s not necessary to do direct arm work if your working hard enough since they are going to be used with a lot of tension. Chest, stick with at most 2 exercises, for me 1 work ok but its up to you, just don’t do any more then 2.

And just like what GLD1 has said just stick with routine about 8-12 weeks and let us know how you do. Practice first couple of weeks or so with technique so you get a feel of how it is before jumping into intensity.

Well Hope this help,

goodluck with training sir!
<message edited by PureNatural on Thursday, April 13, 2006 5:37 PM>
Murrdog

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RE: Begginers Natural Bodybuilding - Friday, April 14, 2006 5:54 AM
Thank you very much PureN and GLD1.  I really appreciate the two of you taking time to advise me.  I'm still a rookie at this stuff... and I have always been scrawny and it's nice to be building toward a healthier and better looking body. 

Its funny, I never understood how people could enjoy lifting... now I can't remember what it was like before I started. 

Natural... thank you for the ups on my progress.  Its nice to hear that my progress is really well.  Of course I spend days wondering why I'm not 180 lbs of pure muscle yet... but someday, you never know. 

Thanks both of you for the Dead & Squat info.  After reading about the exercises, I feel like a heel for not having these in my work outs before.  I had no idea they were so important.  I bet I would have progressed even better and faster than I did if I included them. 

And I'm going to approach these exercises in a rookie fashion... find out what my capacity is and move from there.  I have no idea how much to start on... but I'm sure I can find my way.

I will come out here from time to time and post progress.  I decided yesterday when I was reading this to take the rest of this week off of working out so that I can start fresh with this routine next week.  So I get a couple of days off.  Which can't be a bad thing!

Thanks again... and thanks for the kind words.  I really have been dedicated to this and can't imagine my life with out it now.  I spent 27 years being skinny.  I wish I would have been dedicated to it when I was your age.   But can't change that... so I'm moving forward. 

Hopefully at my 5 year college reunion this year at The Citadel, maybe I'll be a little closer to where I want to be and my old friend's will be shocked.  That's my short term goal at least.  I have some long term ones too that do not involve other people's opinions... I do this for me (and maybe my wife too )
 
Note to those reading this:
 
I hope none of you are offended by me using the word "scrawny."  I know there are some on this site that are... and I use that word as an insult to push myself harder... you should join me.  Call yourself scrawny... skinny POS.  Whatever. 
<message edited by Murrdog on Friday, April 14, 2006 5:58 AM>
Started scrawny...

1/1/2006... 5'8" at 130 lbs

4/13/2006... 5'8" at 151 lbs

Progress is being made!
GLD1

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RE: Begginers Natural Bodybuilding - Friday, April 14, 2006 6:12 AM
Good to know you're eager to learn...that's the best thing. Even better that you are going to look at it as a blank canvas...
 
If you can get  hold of a copy, Stuart McRobert has an excellent book on weight lifting form and two substantial sections, 1 on squatting and one on deadlifting, try and check it out...
 
Focus on form before weight and the poundages will come!!
 
Good luck!
11.04.06:
Age: 22
Weight: 211 Lbs - 96 KG
Height: 6'
Body Fat: 22.13%

I LOVE LEG DAY!!
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