Manta Ray for Squats

I say man up and don't use any equipment.

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Allow me just to quote Mark Rippetoe's book "Strong Enough?":

"And those devices that hold the bar on your back or your shoulders for you, well I can't stand to talk about them either. Except to say that anyone who uses them should be beaten with a hammer, out in the parking lot."

Lol, I knew it was only a matter of time before you gave your input to this thread Coldfire.

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117358

ORIGINAL: brihead301

Lol, I knew it was only a matter of time before you gave your input to this thread Coldfire.

I actually thought to avoid giving my input, because you already gave a good one, but I think this one is funny.

Since we're on the subject of training aids.. what's everyone's opinion on Gloves, Straps, hooks, bar pads, etc....

Don't use Gloves
Don't use straps or hooks
and I've never did a squat with a pad on the bar...

If I used hooks or straps.. I could easily dead lift another 70-100lbs... how could that possibly be fair?? or justifiable?

Am I cheating myself by not using hooks? 
 
I think not

ORIGINAL: coldfire

Allow me just to quote Mark Rippetoe's book "Strong Enough?":

"And those devices that hold the bar on your back or your shoulders for you, well I can't stand to talk about them either. Except to say that anyone who uses them should be beaten with a hammer, out in the parking lot."

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

Since we're on the subject of training aids.. what's everyone's opinion on Gloves, Straps, hooks, bar pads, etc....

Don't use Gloves
Don't use straps or hooks
and I've never did a squat with a pad on the bar...

If I used hooks or straps.. I could easily dead lift another 70-100lbs... how could that possibly be fair?? or justifiable?

Am I cheating myself by not using hooks?

I think not

ORIGINAL: coldfire

Allow me just to quote Mark Rippetoe's book "Strong Enough?":

"And those devices that hold the bar on your back or your shoulders for you, well I can't stand to talk about them either. Except to say that anyone who uses them should be beaten with a hammer, out in the parking lot."

Same for the gloves and pads.

Straps have their place in training, for partial deadlifts for example. But everyone should be able to do full deadlift without straps.

I use gloves, but not straps or hooks of any kind. I don't think I can lift more with gloves - I just avoid ripping my skin to shreds.

My Journal: Jheft's Heftorium

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." -- Mark Twain

My palms are pretty much shot to hell from all the callouses.. I could probably sand drywall without even having any sandpaper..

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

I don't really have any opinion on straps, hooks, gloves, suits, whatever.... I just don't think the manta ray is a good idea.

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117358

I have to use gloves, I get really sweaty palms (I sound prettier everyday don't I, LOL), and can't chaulk. Doesn't help my lifts, just stops me from dropping the weights on myself.
Other than that nada!

I use chalk and I have to use sweatpants for deadlifts.

I wear compression shorts, I don't know if that counts as gear.

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Have you used the Manta Ray?  The reason I ask is that I use it regularly and honestly, the weight feels like it is much lower on my back than it did with the bar alone.  Perhaps my form was wrong before and the Manta Ray has slightly corrected that?  Whatever the case, the weight feels more like it is lower down my traps than it did with the bar alone.
 
 

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ORIGINAL: MikeMahony

Have you used the Manta Ray?  The reason I ask is that I use it regularly and honestly, the weight feels like it is much lower on my back than it did with the bar alone.  Perhaps my form was wrong before and the Manta Ray has slightly corrected that?  Whatever the case, the weight feels more like it is lower down my traps than it did with the bar alone.

Couldn't agree more. It really lowers it for me...

The Manta Ray is sweet! I've had one for a year and I love it.
 
 

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

I completely understand the pain you're referring to...  when I do back squats.. My arms hands are all the way out to the plates due to the pain in my RC and not being able to bring them in closer, as they should be..

ORIGINAL: PearlJammer919

I use the manta ray everytime. I find it it be a great little addition to the squat. I have a bad right shoulder, and this nicely fits on my traps and takes away all discomfort I had with the rotator.

A couple of your posts now lead me to believe that you may have internally rotated shoulders. Do you know if you do? The pain you describe here and in the dips thread typically comes from anterior tightness on the shoulder girdle, pulling the scapula up and forward. Have you ever been to a physical therapist about this?

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ORIGINAL: Godzmarine

I use chalk and I have to use sweatpants for deadlifts.

I wear compression shorts, I don't know if that counts as gear.

If you need to use sweatpants for deadlift because the bar scrapes your legs, you need to keep your body over the bar longer. The bar shouldn't touch your legs during a deadlift.

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ORIGINAL: rippedchick

ORIGINAL: Godzmarine

I use chalk and I have to use sweatpants for deadlifts.

I wear compression shorts, I don't know if that counts as gear.

If you need to use sweatpants for deadlift because the bar scrapes your legs, you need to keep your body over the bar longer. The bar shouldn't touch your legs during a deadlift.

Well maybe you read about DL form somewhere else, but in NROL it says the bar should never NOT be in contact with your legs on the way up...

ORIGINAL: poisondart90

ORIGINAL: rippedchick

ORIGINAL: Godzmarine

I use chalk and I have to use sweatpants for deadlifts.

I wear compression shorts, I don't know if that counts as gear.

If you need to use sweatpants for deadlift because the bar scrapes your legs, you need to keep your body over the bar longer. The bar shouldn't touch your legs during a deadlift.

Well maybe you read about DL form somewhere else, but in NROL it says the bar should never NOT be in contact with your legs on the way up...

A) Don't be another newbie who turns NROL into his bible.

B) There was a clinic at the arnold on form and the instructor stated that if the bar scrapes your shins or knees then you were not putting enough leg into the lift and pulling up with the back too soon.

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No, if you are a newbie NROL is a great book to make your bible.  You will do a hell of a lot better that way rather then making something like Arnold's encyclopedia of BB'ing or something along those lines your bible.  Seriously.
 
Rippedchick, did you ever read that book?  Maybe the blanket routines aren't your thing, but honestly can you really disagree with the "rules" that he talks about?  You really can't.  It's really a great book.  There's just simply too much BS out there these days, and that's one of the few things that's not.

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117358

By no means do I treat it as a bible. I just happened to have read that yesterday in the book and when I find a good reference that contradicts what someone else is saying, I usually mention it in order to start a discussion. It was by no means an "end all" comment.

And also, I may be a "newbie" to bodybuilding but I am definitely not a newbie to weightlifting. I have been lifting weights for about 1/3 of my life. 6 years now I believe. =P. I just haven't been approaching it with so much of a stategic look as I have with a let me go do the same thing all the time and get huge look. A lot has been based on what I wanted to believe and not was actually true so in those regards, I am a noob.

ORIGINAL: brihead301

No, if you are a newbie NROL is a great book to make your bible.  You will do a hell of a lot better that way rather then making something like Arnold's encyclopedia of BB'ing or something along those lines your bible.  Seriously.

Rippedchick, did you ever read that book?  Maybe the blanket routines aren't your thing, but honestly can you really disagree with the "rules" that he talks about?  You really can't.  It's really a great book.  There's just simply too much BS out there these days, and that's one of the few things that's not.

I agree that newbs need a resource outside of Arnold's book or BB'ing magazines. NROL would be a great source for newbies if it wasn't for the "absolute" effect it's having. I read through some chapters of the book right when it came out and thought it was pretty good. But I just thought it was a pretty good lifting book for new people to get off on the right foot.

I did not foresee the affect that the "rules" would have on newbies. The problem is not with the rules themselves, it's with newbies not knowing that there are exceptions to every rule, and there are no absolutes.

The book does not point out these exceptions because they want to sell more copies and when one newb tells another newb "this book is the bible of bodybuilding and everything they say is right!" they accomplish that, but in the meantime they create a whole bunch of know-it-all newbs who refuse to listen to other ideas and concepts that are just as if not more successful than NROL.

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Actually, I managed to lift for most of my adult life without ever having an RC issue.. this just happened back in the summer.. I was out for around 15 months due to an impingement in my left shoulder.. my entire left side suffered some fairly severe atrophy... I worked with DB's but unfortunately, I jumped the gun and started pressing with a bar and bam... the right side over compensated for the weak left side and I have injured the right RC..   I"ve actually been doing RC exercises and it's almost back to normal.. I just can't bring the bar all the way down to my chest on any kind of OH press..
 
If you can, describe in a little more detail what your thought was on what it might be if you don't mind...
 
Thanks..
 

ORIGINAL: rippedchick

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

I completely understand the pain you're referring to...  when I do back squats.. My arms hands are all the way out to the plates due to the pain in my RC and not being able to bring them in closer, as they should be..

ORIGINAL: PearlJammer919

I use the manta ray everytime. I find it it be a great little addition to the squat. I have a bad right shoulder, and this nicely fits on my traps and takes away all discomfort I had with the rotator.

A couple of your posts now lead me to believe that you may have internally rotated shoulders. Do you know if you do? The pain you describe here and in the dips thread typically comes from anterior tightness on the shoulder girdle, pulling the scapula up and forward. Have you ever been to a physical therapist about this?

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

Actually, I managed to lift for most of my adult life without ever having an RC issue.. this just happened back in the summer.. I was out for around 15 months due to an impingement in my left shoulder.. my entire left side suffered some fairly severe atrophy... I worked with DB's but unfortunately, I jumped the gun and started pressing with a bar and bam... the right side over compensated for the weak left side and I have injured the right RC..   I"ve actually been doing RC exercises and it's almost back to normal.. I just can't bring the bar all the way down to my chest on any kind of OH press..

If you can, describe in a little more detail what your thought was on what it might be if you don't mind...

Thanks..

ORIGINAL: rippedchick

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

I completely understand the pain you're referring to...  when I do back squats.. My arms hands are all the way out to the plates due to the pain in my RC and not being able to bring them in closer, as they should be..

ORIGINAL: PearlJammer919

I use the manta ray everytime. I find it it be a great little addition to the squat. I have a bad right shoulder, and this nicely fits on my traps and takes away all discomfort I had with the rotator.

A couple of your posts now lead me to believe that you may have internally rotated shoulders. Do you know if you do? The pain you describe here and in the dips thread typically comes from anterior tightness on the shoulder girdle, pulling the scapula up and forward. Have you ever been to a physical therapist about this?

Well the shoulder is most at risk in the position you described, when you're at the bottom of a military press, or holding a barbell during a back squat. People with internal rotation have more trouble in this area. The same goes for the dips.

It could be internal rotation or it could just be your previous injury. It could also be that because of your previous injuries you now have internal rotation because they didn't heal properly.

An easy way to test is to hold a pen in each fist as if you were going to stab someone. Now let your arms hang down like you would naturally stand.

If the pens point strait forward, you have a neutral shoulder joint and should have good mobility. If they point at an angle inwards, you have internal rotation. If they point at each other, you have severe internal rotation.

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ORIGINAL: rippedchick

ORIGINAL: brihead301

No, if you are a newbie NROL is a great book to make your bible.  You will do a hell of a lot better that way rather then making something like Arnold's encyclopedia of BB'ing or something along those lines your bible.  Seriously.

Rippedchick, did you ever read that book?  Maybe the blanket routines aren't your thing, but honestly can you really disagree with the "rules" that he talks about?  You really can't.  It's really a great book.  There's just simply too much BS out there these days, and that's one of the few things that's not.

I agree that newbs need a resource outside of Arnold's book or BB'ing magazines. NROL would be a great source for newbies if it wasn't for the "absolute" effect it's having. I read through some chapters of the book right when it came out and thought it was pretty good. But I just thought it was a pretty good lifting book for new people to get off on the right foot.

I did not foresee the affect that the "rules" would have on newbies. The problem is not with the rules themselves, it's with newbies not knowing that there are exceptions to every rule, and there are no absolutes.

The book does not point out these exceptions because they want to sell more copies and when one newb tells another newb "this book is the bible of bodybuilding and everything they say is right!" they accomplish that, but in the meantime they create a whole bunch of know-it-all newbs who refuse to listen to other ideas and concepts that are just as if not more successful than NROL.

 
You do have some good points there, but the way I look at it is if one newbie reads the book, follows the methods and gets great results.  Then, that person tells another newbie that those methods worked great, so the next newbie follows it and gets great results.  If people keep telling others about it, then you'll end up with a bunch of happy and satisfied people. 
 
It's better then one newbie telling another newbie some bs myths that he heard and giving out bad advice. 
 
I'm just happy that I was one of those newbies that read it, otherwise I'd probably still be dedicating whole days to biceps.  I now just kinda know how to sort through the good stuff and the bad stuff out of everything I read about now.  NROL just kinda kick started me in the right direction.

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117358