Magic Pills for fat loss?
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 Magic Pills for fat loss?

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psalms_soldier

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RE: Magic Pills for fat loss? - Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:42 AM
Yeah the place i used to work got a letter in the mail about how we shouldnt tell customers anything about Cortislim that would lead them to believe it will help them....... lose fat, ect. The letter basically conveyed to us everything Dan just mentioned.
STACK- Vaso-Pump, Acai Tablets ,Oryx Goat Whey, Cell-Tech Hardcore, Universal Animal Pak, EFA's

Size-5'10 - 180lbs
20 yrs -- Body Fat -- 7%

Athletic Training
danmirage

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RE: Magic Pills for fat loss? - Tuesday, March 20, 2007 10:29 AM
Many of the pills that do lead to rapid weight loss cause loss of muscle and water and perhaps a small bit of fat. 
Losing muscle and not gaining it back is not something to be proud of.
 
Amazing that the FTC fines Cortislim for false and misleading advertising and it is still advertised the same.
 
It is basically a combination of things that help the body to cope with stress.
Nothing magic there.
Coop

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RE: Magic Pills for fat loss? - Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:57 PM

ORIGINAL: danmirage

Amazing that the FTC fines Cortislim for false and misleading advertising and it is still advertised the same.


 
Of course the are.... That fine is peanuts compaired to what they are making from that false advetising.... 10 million is nothing compaired to the potential hundreds of millions they stand to make in the future.... until the FTC fines the amount of money made doing this, nothing will change....
 
They are still using it because it works... Until we stop buying into this advertising (I'm guilty of falling for it from time to time) they will continue to use it...
 
 
Eat...Lift....Sleep......Repeat

Enjoy the process.. but crave the goal.
khart

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RE: Magic Pills for fat loss? - Sunday, March 25, 2007 9:25 PM
I agree about the "no magic weight loss pill" comments. It is true, the pills only work when you are actually doing the work (cardio or whatever you may do) to lose the weight. I did find a pill that I consider more of a workout aid though, it is called Thermokinetic and it really changed my workouts big time.  When I started doing cardio I chose the treadmill, I used to call it the dreadmill because I used to hate it that much, it is boring and after 10 min. I was ready to get off. When I tried Thermokinetic and took it 30 min before my workout like they recommended, everything changed and now I am doing 8 incline at 4.0 speed at 40 min a crack and just about daily, the weight poured off because I was doing the work. I attribute the weight loss to the work I did and that the pill gave me the extreme energy I needed to keep at it. For a pill that doesn't contain ephedra, I was very surprised that it worked so well. I have been using it for about 8 months and get the same results everyday. I thought for sure my body would get immune to it, but that has not happened. I bought it on ebay, but I also found it at mysupplementshop.com, but you can do a google search and find it too. I think I paid like $29 for 120 ct bottle, I only take 2 a day 30 min before I hit the treadmill or lift weights. It also makes u pretty alert without any jitters.
danmirage

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RE: Magic Pills for fat loss? - Sunday, March 25, 2007 11:45 PM
Khart.  I am sure you have worked hard, but I have to warn you...the supplement has dangers - mentioned later.
 
Weight loss should not be the goal, fat loss should: not water, muscle, bone or organ weight.
 
Have you tracked your lean body mass.  If not, you should. 
 
If you are losing anything but fat, then I am afraid it may backfire.  I only say that so if it is the case, you don't have to get worried.  You will know what happened and can quickly adjsut diet and training to fix it.
 
The next trick will be when you stop taking the stimulant and your adrenal system is pooped and does not kick in to pick up where the stimulant left off.  Yes, it can cause adrenal exhaustion.  Most people experience a severe and even depressing loss of vigour and energy at the sessation of use of these pills.  There are also some other health risks to consider.  Hypertension being one.
 
If you had done this naturally, you would simply have lost the weight and then eased off on training and gone into a maintenance phase.
 
However, when you stop the stimulant your metabolism may tank and your energy may plummit.  Just be aware.  You need to set up a schedule of eating right and exercising to build up your immune, adrenal, and energy systems again.  This can take as much as 6 weeks.
 
Get your blood pressure checked.
 
OK..well here we go...
  
Thermokinetic
SUPPLEMENT FACTS:
Serving Size: 3 capsules
120 Capsules Per Bottle

Coleus Forskohlii (20%) 100mg
Guggul Lipid Extract (10%) 100mg
Proprietary Blend: 1900mg
Yohimbe Extract, Citrus Aurantium, Caffeine Anhydrous, L-Tyrosine, Guarana Extract (22%), Ginkgo Biloba Extract, White Willow Bark, Ginger Root, Cayenne.
 
In short...Simulants, caffeine..lots of caffeine, aspirin, plus some fluff.
 
Commiphora mukul or Guggul

I have glanced over literature.  The supplement sellers rave about it, the scientific literature is lukewarm at best.

In Ayervedic practice, it has traditionally been combined with other herbs for the treatment of arthritis, skin diseases, pains in the nervous system, obesity, digestive problems, infections in the mouth, and menstrual problems.

In clinical trials of standardized guggul extract (not synthetic), no significant side effects other than occasional mild gastrointestinal distress or allergic skin rashes have been seen.  Laboratory tests conducted in the course of these trials did not reveal any alterations in liver or kidney function, blood cell numbers and appearance, heart function, or blood chemistry.

Three double-blind studies performed in India found evidence that guggul can reduce cholesterol levels. However, the largest placebo-controlled study failed to find benefit.  In fact, the herb seemed to worsen levels of LDL ("bad") cholesterol. The reason for this discrepancy is not clear.

Drugs in the statin family used to reduce cholesterol can cause a potentially serious condition called rhabdomyolysis, in which muscle fibers break down. One case report hints that this could occur with guggul as well.

Bianchi A, Cantu P, Firenzuoli F, et al. Rhabdomyolysis caused by Commiphora mukul, a natural lipid-lowering agent. Ann Pharmacother. 2004;38:1222-5.

Finally the latest review of literature:
Guggul for hyperlipidemia: a review by the Natural Standard Research Collaboration.
Complement Ther Med. 2005 Dec;13(4):279-90. Epub 2005 Sep 23

"At this time, there is not enough scientific evidence to support the use of guggul for any medical condition. Guggul may cause stomach discomfort or allergic rash as well as other serious side effects and interactions. It should be avoided in pregnant or breast-feeding women and in children. Safety of use beyond 4 months has not been well studied."

Over fatness and Obesity are medical conditions...
 
Supposedly, it works by enhancing thyroid function. However, there is little evidence that natural guggul actually affects the thyroid, and one small double-blind, placebo-controlled trial failed to find it effective for weight loss.  Even if it did affect the thyroid..YOU DO NOT WANT TO MESS WITH THYROID FUNCTION!

 
Coleus Forskohlii

Forskolin is a chemical found in the coleus herb that activates the enzyme adenylate cyclase. Andenylate cyclase compound initiates a myriad of critical events and processes within all the cells of the human body. Adenylate cyclase and the chemicals it activates are responsible for executing a number of important hormonal processes. Stimulation that is caused by forskolin supposedly leads to blood vessel dilation, inhibition of allergic reactions, and possibly an increased secretion of thyroid hormone. Forskolin has other reported uses as well, including inhibition of the pro-inflammatory substance known as platelet-activating factor (PAF) 6 and inhibition of the spread of cancer cells.

It has been reported that forskolin may also assist in dilating blood vessels and improving the forcefulness with which the heart pumps blood. Some studies have indicated that forskolin may help to reduce blood pressure and improved heart function in people with cardiomyopathy. However, there is no clear evidence as to whether or not oral supplementation with coleus.
 
 
Yohimbe Extract

Yohimbe is made from the bark of the Pausinystalia johimbe tree found in Africa. Among its chemical constituents, it contains the chemical, yohimbine, which is an FDA-approved drug that is marginally effective for male erectile dysfunction.

 
Citrus Aurantium or Synephrine

Once the supplement manufacturers were forewarned that Ephedra was to be pulled, they knew they needed another magic formula.  Since ephedra was originally from a decongestant...they thought to search there first.  Enter the ex-nasal spray ingredient ..remember neo-synephrine?  Enter Synephrine as the new fat loss supplement. 
 
There is no reliable evidence that Synephrine is effective, and considerable reason to worry that it may cause harm.  The reassuring statement made by some manufacturers that Synephrine offers the "benefits of ephedra without the risks" is not supported by scientific evidence.
 
A Special note on synephrine  - You might feel warm after taking synephrine..that is the constriction of the blood vessels. Constricted blood vessels equals restricted blood flow, and that's the complete opposite of what you want if you're looking to optimize fat burning, yet it may cause a sensation of heat. 

Then there is humor in the claims of "abundant research" on the fat burning effectiveness...it was found to effectively kill mosquitoes and...

Here is the research that is cited to "clinically prove" it is effective for fat loss:
Park JH, Keeley LL. The effect of biogenic amines and their analogs on carbohydrate metabolism in the fat body of Blaberus discoidalis. Gen Comp Endocrinol 1998 Apr;110(1):88-95 
Does this study prove that synephrine will burn fat in your body? Only if you fall into the species categorized as Blaberus discoidalis. Allow me translate Blaberus discoidalis into its more recognizable term. ****roach!

The drug synephrine is known to produce many unpleasant and possibly dangerous side effects, including headache, agitation, rapid heart rate, and heart palpitations. In some people, it can cause angina pectoris, kidney damage, increased pressure in the eye, and reduced blood circulation to the heart and the extremities.
An even less reliable study evaluated the synephrine constituent of Citrus aurantium and found possible "fat burning" actions. 
Hedrei P, Gougeon R. Thermogenic effect of beta-sympathicomimetic compounds extracted from Citrus aurantium. McGill Nutrition and Food Science Center, Royal Victoria Hospital. 1997. 
In view of the weakness of the evidence in favor of Citrus aurantium, and the considerable evidence that it presents health risks, I recommend against using it for fat loss.

 
Caffeine Anhydrous & Guarana Extract

Caffeine.

 
L-Tyrosine

Tyrosine has been proposed as a treatment for various conditions in which mental function is impaired or slowed down, such as fatigue and depression.

 
White Willow Bark

Think- aspirin.  Anti-inflammitory and Increases blood flow.

 
Ginkgo Biloba Extract

Ginkgo biloba extract is widely used for increasing cognitive functions in elderly people, delaying the progression of Alzheimer's disease, increasing blood flow to the legs, treating tinnitus (ringing in the ear) of a circulatory origin, as well as treating depression and asthma.
 
Ginkgo may have some undesirable effects, especially for individuals with blood circulation disorders and those taking anti-coagulants such as aspirin…

localoutoftowner

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RE: Magic Pills for fat loss? - Monday, March 26, 2007 1:04 AM
Surprised they added Guarana in there with the Caffiene Anhydrous. Though Dan Mirage focuses on the negatives, there are benefits to supplementing with some of the above mentioned.
danmirage

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RE: Magic Pills for fat loss? - Monday, March 26, 2007 1:32 AM
Did I focus on the negatives?
 
I only told the reported effectiveness, research findings and, where appropriate, contraindications.
localoutoftowner

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RE: Magic Pills for fat loss? - Monday, March 26, 2007 1:37 AM
Well, not on all of them. I agree with some, but I think Tyrosine has benefits that could aid in such a product.
danmirage

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RE: Magic Pills for fat loss? - Monday, March 26, 2007 12:09 PM
Such as, enhancing mental focus?
 
Don't get me wrong, I am not against supplementation.  Even the use of stimulants, when all counterindications have been addressed, has its place.
 
Keeping in mind that supplements are "the extra" and not "the answer."
localoutoftowner

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RE: Magic Pills for fat loss? - Tuesday, March 27, 2007 12:34 AM

ORIGINAL: danmirage

Such as, enhancing mental focus?



What about Norepenephrine? sp? 


Keeping in mind that supplements are "the extra" and not "the answer."

I couldn't agree more.

danmirage

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RE: Magic Pills for fat loss? - Tuesday, March 27, 2007 2:52 AM

What about Norepenephrine? sp? 

adrenal stimulation...has some consequences.
danmac75

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RE: Magic Pills for fat loss? - Tuesday, March 27, 2007 12:50 PM
Here;s my question.  Besides giving you added energy, how do these pills claim to burn fat?  You also see a lot of claims of  insane things like "Special Heat Churning liqui-caps" that make it sound like the liquid inside the pill LITERALLY enters your body and melts fat, literally. 

I am interested in how a supplement can help burn fat.  I mean if you think about it, muscle building supplements can genuinely claim to help burn fat, because in the long run all that added muscle will in fact burn fat!  But is it going to do more harm than good for the average, non competitive BBr to take a "fat burning" supplement.


I'm talking about having a really good diet, with 500 sub maintenance calories daily TOPS and an ideal fat loss weight training routine.  Basically my question is, how will a fat burning pill work if taken under the ideal circumstances- as in if you were training to burn fat without the use of a pill and were doing everything right, then added the pill as a true "supplement".  Would the pill kick it up a notch and help you burn fat while, most importantly, sparing muscle?  Or are these pills supposed to just really give anorexic people energy they lack due to insufficient food intake.  I don't mean to take that word lightly, so I'll call them undereaters.
 
P.S.  Should BCAAs be taken in higher amounts when in a cutting phase?
<message edited by danmac75 on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 12:54 PM>
localoutoftowner

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RE: Magic Pills for fat loss? - Tuesday, March 27, 2007 2:51 PM
Some of the marketing of Thermogenics are so silly. I wouldn't listen to a thing they say and do your own research to find out which is going to be best for you. Whether or not it's going to burn fat or muscle is up to your diet and training program. Also, I suggest higher levels of BCAA's during a cutting phase, before and after exercise, but I'd have to know how many you intake already. You can reach Toxic levels of Leucine, I believe.
danmac75

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RE: Magic Pills for fat loss? - Tuesday, March 27, 2007 3:07 PM
Right now pre workout is No Xplode.  I do it for the energy boost and it's almost more mental than anything.  It gets me pumped.  Even the flavor of it.  Other than that, it's actually kind of a hinderence because you can't eat for 2 hours before you take it, so theres a risk of going too long without eating.  I wonder, can you eat after you take it, as in could I sip on something while working out?  I suppose it all depends on my own tolerance.
 
So no BCAAs there.  I have a scoop of protein PWO, and it has BCAAs in it.  I'll start supping with BCAA powder but will make sure not to go overboard.  Pretty much keep it to pre and post work out.  I definitely won't need NO Xplode during the cutting phase. 
danmirage

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RE: Magic Pills for fat loss? - Tuesday, March 27, 2007 3:34 PM

You can reach Toxic levels of Leucine, I believe

That would be very difficult.
 

P.S.  Should BCAAs be taken in higher amounts when in a cutting phase?

Not higher amounts but necessary amounts.
 
15g EAA Pre and Post with (1/4 tsp per 40 pounds ideal weight) BCAA sipped during training would be the ideal
 
In short, there are a few supplemental mechanism for increasing the bodies fat burning potential.
  1. General stimulant (caffeine, etc makes you feel more enrgetic though it is NOT energy, it is adrenal stimulation)
  2. Enhance fat burning pathways at chemical level
  3. (Nervous) Systemic stimulant (ephedra)
  4. Thyroid stimulant
  5. Enhanced circulation/oxigenation/oxidation
  6. Decreased fat storage mechanisms (lower stress/hormone, lower absorption, lower storage potential)
  7. Increased muscle storage and activity
  8. Incresed (or decreased) hormone activity

To name a few.
 
Most of these you can accomplish through simple diet, rest, and progressive exercise.
 
This supplementation should be looked at as a tool that you use after the engine is running and tuned up, not before.  You don't tune up an engine that is not running in the first place...you get it running right first.
 
Many of these have downsides that one should be forwarned of and prepared to address before embarking.
 
In almost every case, a general physical and honest discussinon with your physician can illuminate potential individual risk factors.
 

Basically my question is, how will a fat burning pill work if taken under the ideal circumstances- as in if you were training to burn fat without the use of a pill and were doing everything right, then added the pill as a true "supplement".  Would the pill kick it up a notch and help you burn fat while, most importantly, sparing muscle?

If you are training and eating appropriatly for your goal and losing 1/2 to 2 pounds a week, then why would you need a pill. To lose more than 2 pounds a week risks the loss of lean tissue and the crippling of the metabolism.
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