Looking for a little direction
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Looking for a little direction - 6/18/2007 3:08:46 PM
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chendrum
Posts: 9
Joined: 6/18/2007
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Howdy!
I just read thru Drastic's post about advice for severly overweight people, and found alot of good suggestions, but I'm trying to fit it all with me and could use a little direction. I'm 6'3 and started working out 6 weeks ago weighing around 400 pounds. My doctor visit 2 weeks ago weighed me at 382; I'm not sure where I am now. (Hard to find a scale that high to tell for sure) 
The doctor said the only thing negative (besides being overweight) was that my cholestrol was a little high (was 1-2 points over the line between high and...whatever is below that - lol. I can't remember if thats moderate or normal.
I bought a bowflex about 6 weeks ago, and included with it is a manual with guidelines to a nutritional plan and workout plan for 'optimal fat loss', and this is what I've followed for the last 6 weeks.
The plan calls for 3 meals and 2-4 snacks a day.
Breakfast is 300 calories (cereal, oatmeal, etc)
Then a 100-200 calorie snack before lunch (apple, granola bar, etc)
Lunch is 300 calories (lean cuisine or the like)
Then a 100-200 calorie snack before dinner (apple, granola bar, etc)
Dinner is 500 calories (lean cuisine and rice, potato, etc)
So a total of 1300-1500 calories per day.
It also includes Super-Hydration, which is drinking a gallon of ice-cold water a day for the first week, and upping it by 1/8th every week until by the 6th week, I'm drinking 1 5/8 gallons of water per day.
The workout starts and ends with rowing for warm up and cool down and is comprised performing 1 set with load to fail between 8-12 reps, and includes:
Leg Extensions, Leg Curls, Bench Press, Bicep Curls, Shoulder Press, and Abdominal Crunches for weeks 1-2
Same as above plus Triceps Extensions and Rear Deltoid Rows for weeks 3-4
Same as above plus Leg Press and Reverse Flys for weeks 5-6
I feel COMPLETELY different than I did when I started, though I don't see a drastic change in how I look in my before and after pics. However, I've lost a few inches around my waist, had to buy new clothes, etc, so I'm happy with what its done for me. I went kayaking for the first time in about 20 years this past weekend and had a blast. I can't wait to lose more fat and get healthier.
All that said, I'd like to step it up a bit. The workouts I've been doing last maybe 30-40 minutes, and I push until I just can't go anymore, and fail at somewhere between 8-12 as the guide says. I rarely feel any discomfort or soreness the next day, and I keep eyeing my bowflex like it's flirting with me. I'm just afraid to go over and do bad things with it; if you know what I mean...
Because I'm drinking so much water, I'm normally not that hungry, but from some of the posts I've read, I should be eatting somewhere close to twice as many calories as I am currently.
I felt I'd give this plan a 6 week try and tweak it afterwards.
Now I'm here, and not sure what to do!
1. Are lean-cuisines the way to go? Or should I toss them and go for unprocessed foods?
2. Should I up my caloric intake?
3. Should I adopt the 25p/50c/25f goal like suggested in Drastic's post?
4. I know a variety of machines and methods would be optimal; but is the bowflex sufficient?
5. Should I stick to a 3 day a week work out plan? Or is there another plan thats better?
6. I take a multi-vitamin and a potassium pill every day, and nothing else. Should I take other vitamins and supplements?
7. Are any of you trainers in St Louis? :)
I really appreciate all your help!
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RE: Looking for a little direction - 6/19/2007 8:15:11 AM
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CowboyMouth
Posts: 327
Joined: 4/28/2007
Status: offline
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Hey awesome start! I have some suggestions/comments.
- Get a scale and a tape measure
A cheap wal-mart scale might not work for you, but finding one that will is worth the investment.
Keeping weekly measurements is more important than you probablly realize. Without weekly measurements its way too easy to get off track. Track your results. Keep them. Weigh at the same time, in the same amount of clothing once a week.
- Eat more
The advice you were given is probablly much better than what you were eating before, but its far from ideal. And 1500 calories is way too low for you.
I can't tell you how many calories you need to eat per day, but I can point you in the direction to determine it.
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/How_Many_Calories_Do_You_Need_Calorie_Calculators_Includes_Quick_Spreadsheet_Too/m_45013/tm.htm
Follow that guide and determine your calorie intake. Your first step is to determine how many calories you need to eat to stay at your current weight. Next you lower that number to shed fat. Its very important not to lower it too much though. That is the biggest mistake people make when trying to shed fat. Lower it about 20% or 1000 calories below maintenace.
There is a good reason for not slashing calories too low. If you go too low, your body stops burning fat and turns to muscle. Its an oversimplification, but it helps to think of muscle as metabolism. You're not likely to build muscle while you are eating fewer calories than your maintenance, but you cannot afford to lose muscle. People that do always end up hitting a plateau as their body become less efficient at burning fat. Then they get frustrated and eat like they use to. They now burn less calories and get even fatter then before they started.
- Eat full meals
You are probablly best of eating 6 meals per day. The keyword there is meals. An apple or a granola bar is not a meal. Every meal should consist of at least a lean protein and a starchy carb. Ideally you should also add a fibrous vegetable with each meal. Meal times should be every 2-3 hours. There are many benefits for frequent full meals, one of the largest being the amount of calories are burned each time you start the digestion process of eating.
Here is a better explanation of eating correctly:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
If you really want the full scoop, consider purchasing this excellent e-book on nutrtion.
http://www.burnthefat.com
- Start an online journal
This may sound unnessary to many but it is an extremly powerful tool. Knowing you will put in your weekly measurements adds an accountability factor that can make all the difference in achieving your goals.
Speaking of goals, list them in your journal. Be specific and positive. Don't use questionable language such as 'try', but write your goals in a way 'I will lose 10 lbs' this month.
You can do a journal on this site. Here is a link to mine:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/CMs_Online_Training_Journal/m_255657/tm.htm
- Training
I don't have a lot of advice for your weight-training. I've never used a BowFlex, but its resistence training and should work. Eventually, I would have you consider picking up a set of adjustable dumbbells as well. Visit the training forums for more information.
One thing I will mention is to avoid overtraining. Your weight lifting sessions should be around 45 minutes and never extend an hour. Search the forums here for more explanations on why this is important.
You mentioned a variety of machines would be ideal. Actually free weights are ideal, but yes BowFlex should work fine. A set of dumbbells later would also be good.
- Lean Cusines
These aren't ideal. If you really want to step your nutrition up its best to avoid processed food. But thats just part of the problem with Lean Cusines and such. First, the amount of calories is most likely not close to what you need to maintain your Lean Body Mass (i.e. your muscle). Another thing is these are not very good. Of course that's my opinion, but if I am eating something not ideal it should taste better than a Lean Cusine.
- Macronutrients and tracking
You asked if you should follow a macro ratio of 50c/25p/25f. That's probablly a pretty good starting point. I'd probablly suggest 50/30/20, but either way they are close.
What is important is tracking what you eat so when your results are not what you want you can change things up. 50/30/20 might be the best for me, but you might be slightly less carb tolerant. If you've tracked everything you can later switch to 40/35/25 or something like that and see if you get better results.
Fitday is a good tracking tool. It took me a while to get all my foods entered in there, but now its a snap to create my meal plans. I just pick foods from dropdowns and add to my meal plan for the day. I get it to balance what I want. Note that when you plan your macros don't be too anal. If I'm shooting for 50/30/20 and I end up with 53/28/19 that's fine.
http://www.fitday.com/
- Supplements
Don't worry about them yet. You take a multivitamin now and I believe that is enough. If anything else I'd suggest whey protein to be taken directly after working out and for emergency situations when you cannot get a real meal. Remember that food is always better than supplement foods. The one exception is post-workout because you want a protein that acts fast and thats what whey does.
Most supplements are extremely overrated. 95% of your results are going to come from nutrition and training. Its a waste of time and money to worry about supplements until you have these basics in-line.
- Trainers
I'm not a trainer, nor am I in St.Louis. I personally never wanted a trainer, but everyone is different. I'm sure you can find one if you decide you are interested.
- Be careful who you trust and where you get your information
There is so much misleading information out there. Weight-loss is one of the largest businesses in the world and so many will happily take people off track in order to make a buck. I stay away from bodybuilding magazines. These are usually owned by supplement compaines and are only trying to sell you something. The real truth however is food is always better than supplements.
Stay away from anything extreme. Any nutrition plan (or diet) that tells you to start by fasting or going long periods of time without solid food is not the way to go. These types of 'get thin quick' plans sell magazines by promising quick results. The creators of these plans know what they are selling is ultimately detrimental, but they do it anway.
----
I hope some of this has helped. Feel free to ask any questions. This is a friendly community who is motivated by helping each other with their fitness/health goals.
_____________________________
My Training Journal
(in reply to chendrum)
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RE: Looking for a little direction - 6/19/2007 2:48:05 PM
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chendrum
Posts: 9
Joined: 6/18/2007
Status: offline
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Thanks SO much for your response!
I went to http://www.linear-software.com/online.html to figure out my Body Fat, and using the Tape Measure Method, I found I'm around 46% body fat, 80.5 kg body fat, and 91.5 kg lean weight.
I'm 6'3, or 190.5 cm.
Using the Katch-McArdle formula from
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/How_Many_Calories_Do_You_Need_Calorie_Calculators_Includes_Quick_Spreadsheet_Too/m_45013/tm.htm I get:
BMR = 370 + (21.6 x 91.5) = 2346
With working out 45 minutes every 3 days and kayaking for a couple hours on the weekends, I put myself at a Lightly Active or 1.375 activity multipier (is that correct or should I put myselt to moderately active?)
If I'm doing this correctly, then my total daily energy expenditure (TDEE) = 1.375 x 2346 = 3226 calories per day
So if I want to lose weight, I should drop by 20% or 1000 calories which would be 2581 or 2226 respectively. Think a starting point of 2400 would be a good compromise? Then I can do 6 x 300 calorie meals.
Would you recommend I do a full body work out 3 times a week consisting of one set for each muscle group? or is there a better variation for losing weight?
I've been reading posts all day and I've seen about 20 different work out plans. I'm nervous to just pick one because most of you guys are already in great shape and are working on tweaking your workouts to get just one more pound of muscle or lose one more pound of fat.
I'm way more interested in cutting fat right now that I am building muscle (though I'd really love to be building muscle!).
I benched about 135-145 in high school, and am up to 220 on the bowflex bench. I know they are not exactly the same exercise, but its really been exhilerating to see great strength gains in just the last 6 weeks. Anywho, thanks again for your help. I really appreciate it. :)
(in reply to CowboyMouth)
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RE: Looking for a little direction - 6/20/2007 5:55:43 AM
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CowboyMouth
Posts: 327
Joined: 4/28/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chendrum
With working out 45 minutes every 3 days and kayaking for a couple hours on the weekends, I put myself at a Lightly Active or 1.375 activity multipier (is that correct or should I put myselt to moderately active?)
Lightly active is fine assuming you don't have an very physically active day job, etc.
quote:
ORIGINAL: chendrum
Think a starting point of 2400 would be a good compromise? Then I can do 6 x 300 calorie meals.
Sounds like a great place to start. Just remember to stay on top of those weekly measurements so you can be in control of when to tweak things. Most around here will say you want to lose 1-2 pounds per week max. If you are very overweight I think you can lose more than that at first, maybe 2-5. If you're losing more than that you're putting your lean body mass at risk and should increase calories. If you aren't losing at 2400, then drop calories by 100-300.
quote:
ORIGINAL: chendrum
Would you recommend I do a full body work out 3 times a week consisting of one set for each muscle group? or is there a better variation for losing weight?
Personally, when I weight-train to lose fat, I don't behave differently than I would if I was attempting to gain mass. During the weight-lifting sessions the goal is the same if you are cutting or bulking, building lean body mass - muscle.
A full body workout 3 times a week is fine to start as long as you keep it in the 45 minutes - hour range. I would advise changing things up every couple months at least. So maybe make a plan in 2 months to switch to a different weight training program, perhaps one that does splits. You're body gets use to certain programs and results slow down. Changing up variables is a key to being able to keep proceeding.
quote:
ORIGINAL: chendrum
I've been reading posts all day and I've seen about 20 different work out plans. I'm nervous to just pick one because most of you guys are already in great shape and are working on tweaking your workouts to get just one more pound of muscle or lose one more pound of fat.
Ok, first of all don't misunderstand me. I'm far from being in my best shape. I am in much better shape now than when I started, but I still have a ways to go myself. I am not an expert, but I am confident in what I've learned and how I will achieve my results.
The most important thing is to do the best you know how. You do not have to be perfect, but you can always keep learning.
Many of the people on here are in the boat you said where they are trying to gain a little more muscle or lose a little fat. I am in a similar situation to you. I use to be in good shape then I made some poor life choices and got out of shape. I had about 60-70 lbs of fat to lose when I started. I have lost 30 and I have a plan to get the rest off.
That being said please take a look at my journal. Its good to follow those that are trying to achieve the same results. I've listed what I eat and what type of workouts and cardio I do.
quote:
ORIGINAL: chendrum
I'm way more interested in cutting fat right now that I am building muscle (though I'd really love to be building muscle!).
Yup, keep it simple and concentrate on one goal. Losing fat. But since that is your goal, just remember that weight-training is all the more important. Its the key ingredient to fatloss.
< Message edited by CowboyMouth -- 6/20/2007 5:57:45 AM >
_____________________________
My Training Journal
(in reply to chendrum)
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RE: Looking for a little direction - 6/24/2007 10:05:14 AM
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chendrum
Posts: 9
Joined: 6/18/2007
Status: offline
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I thought I replied to this post a couple days ago, but for some reason I don't find it. :(
I read thru your post, and can relate to you. My drug of choice for about 5 years was Everquest. I even went so far as to open an internet cafe so I could play more. I was like an alcoholic running a bar. lol
I broke the habit a couple years ago, and have changed my focus to enjoying life, hanging out with friends, and securing a good future instead of wasting literal years of my life playing a game.
I went kayaking this weekend with my wife; was an 8 mile trip on still water; I got a hell of a workout.
If I understand the concept correctly, in regards to fat loss, your diet determines if you are building muscle or burning fat, but you can't do either efficiently if you aren't weight training as well. That sound right?
Thanks again for the help!
Chendrum
(in reply to CowboyMouth)
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RE: Looking for a little direction - 6/24/2007 4:51:14 PM
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CowboyMouth
Posts: 327
Joined: 4/28/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chendrum
I thought I replied to this post a couple days ago, but for some reason I don't find it. :(
I read thru your post, and can relate to you. My drug of choice for about 5 years was Everquest. I even went so far as to open an internet cafe so I could play more. I was like an alcoholic running a bar. lol
Yeah, they're all the same in that sense. I'm not sure what makes an online game so addictive that I lose track of time and everything else, where any offline game I can play nicely in moderation.
quote:
ORIGINAL: chendrum
If I understand the concept correctly, in regards to fat loss, your diet determines if you are building muscle or burning fat, but you can't do either efficiently if you aren't weight training as well. That sound right?
The amount of calories you eat should be tailored if your goals are to burn fat or build lean body mass (muscle). You don't change the actual food you eat, just the amount. The reason you can't usually gain muscle and lose fat at the same time is that gaining muscle requires more calories than you burn daily and losing fat requires fewer calories than you burn.
_____________________________
My Training Journal
(in reply to chendrum)
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