Keto Diet? I dont understand how you loose fat on a high fat diet???

How can you loose fat on a high fat, low protein, low carb diet? wtf lol?

 
 
wish i could drill this into everyones heads
 
:::::fats such as polyunsaterated monousaturated , saterated , anymore im missing ? does not make you fat get that ? it does NOT and i repeat DOES NOT MAKE FAT APEAR ON YOU::::
 
fat per gram has more calories than protein and carbohydrates per gram
 
to be more precise
 
carbs - 4 calories per gram
protien - 4 calories per gram 
now heres why fat is fat
fat has 9 calories per gram
 
thats why lowfat/nonfat foods always has less calories total on the nutrional values box on the package
 
in the end fat per gram just acumulates calories quicker
alot of health benifits come from good fats just search for it and read up you would be amazed
 
 
 
alrighty got that off my chest it just bugs me and finnally got to let loose a little sorry alan123 wasnt puting it towords you just wish people would learn

bench - 305 lbs
squat - 505 lbs
dead - 550 lbs
only with a belt i dont care for suits

...Nearly every science book i own starts the chapter "lipids" with
 
"most people think fats are bad, fats are one of the most important aspects of all cell functions and health"
 
Its funny...Theyre basically trying to fix an obesity problem with a cluster bomb, unfortunately sometimes the clusters hit an ally.
 
So now we have mediumly built people going "AHHH NUUUU FAT!"
 
Just eat it you twat, you wont gain 50lbs overnight

I've been doing this for 4 weeks time.  I'm up 8 pounds on the scale, but I've actually lost 2% bodyfat overall.  It is a great plan.

Just completed a 12 week High Intensity Training program.  52% average increase in weight lifted for each exercise.  Up 12 lbs. body weight, down 1.78% body fat for an increase of 14.02 lbs. LBM and a decrease of 2.02 lbs. of fat. 

ORIGINAL: MikeMahony

I've been doing this for 4 weeks time.  I'm up 8 pounds on the scale, but I've actually lost 2% bodyfat overall.  It is a great plan.

wow thats pretty crazy gains. are you naturally more endo?  i assume you used calipers for your measurements?

ORIGINAL: David1991

ORIGINAL: MikeMahony

I've been doing this for 4 weeks time.  I'm up 8 pounds on the scale, but I've actually lost 2% bodyfat overall.  It is a great plan.

wow thats pretty crazy gains. are you naturally more endo?  i assume you used calipers for your measurements?

 
Yes, I use Accumeasure calipers for my measurements.  The amazing thing is that most people will tell you to be eating about 3800 calories all the time, but for some reason this diet lets me eat a lower amount of overall calories, still bulk, and lose a bit of fat as I go.  Pretty crazy!

Just completed a 12 week High Intensity Training program.  52% average increase in weight lifted for each exercise.  Up 12 lbs. body weight, down 1.78% body fat for an increase of 14.02 lbs. LBM and a decrease of 2.02 lbs. of fat. 

ORIGINAL: MikeMahony

Monday through Friday:

2800 calories
70 g. carbs
350 g. protein
125 g. fat

Saturday:

3500 calories
262 g. carbs
306 g. protein
136 g. fat

Sunday

3800 calories
285 g. carbss
332 g. protein
148 g. fat

i just realized how much protein your taking in, i was expecting more fat. with such low carbs, but still enough to actually be using glucose as your main fuel source, i would think that your body is using a lot of protein for fuel right now converting it to glucose. clearly your getting good results so maybe it's just using dietary protein.

as far as total amount of carbs throughout the week it's near midway between what i'm eating now (230 on average) and the AD diet. this is getting me thinking about just lower carbs when bulking (cycling them which ive been doing) than needing to be getting keto/near keto levels of carbs. i think it would be smartest to have the high carb days on workout days though

what i dont personally get about keto diet is...Your body turns the fats into glucose that it required for nerves etc (many tissues cant work on fats, so it makes glucose from the fats)
 
wouldnt it just be easier to eat the required glucose you need?
 
It just seems as if youre putting pressure on your body to make its nutrients rather than giving it direct nutrients.
 
Like...amino acids are synthesised in the body, however if you eat a tonne of them specific amino acids, you get better results, as the body has more and is under less pressure to synthesise loads, its the same with carbs, your krebs cycle is merely expending energy trying to make glucose from flucose starvation which gets its energy from where? fats
 
It needs glucose, so it will only burn fat, this is why ive never said keto doesnt work, i just dont like the fact that it appears to put lots of pressure onto the body....
 
Its all nice and well reading internet articles, but be safe, articles are there to sell and make people rich and famous.
 
Im not of the knowledge or intelligence yet to distinguish any decent evidence to support the claim of it putting the body under pressure...what i mean is i have no direct example, only a basic outline of what i can see appears as stressful to the body logically speaking.
 
I have in the past tried to search for journals of nutrition and the ketogenic diet but am finding it hard, not just that but journals have a very annoying habit of stating one particular goal which doesnt give the needed info of "side effects" etc.
 
 
 
Im not doing down the diet just-act with caution, get blood checks etc, and even then that isnt going to predict a problem, blood tests are relatively limited in what they can tell you, it can tell a lot sure, but many things can be missed.

you'd have a point if what you were saying was entirely true. the body doesnt change fat to glucose. the only part of fat that can be converted to glucose is the glycerol portion which gives an insignificant amount.

the body doesnt need much glucose, most parts of the body that uses it can run on FFA's or ketones. the few parts that do need glucose get the necessary amounts from the carbs being taken in

wrongo, a large portion of tissues can only work on glucose, the most energy consuming system of the body requires glucose, and that is nerve tissue, which allows all movement of the body, everytime you rep your weights thats coming from your nerve tissues.
 
I dont have explicit knowledge of side effects on keto but i know biology quite well, strangely enough
 
Like i said im not trying to challenge the diet or do it down, im just saying be careful with it.
 
Results doesnt mean its a good diet, I can get results by eating like a pig, does that mean im more healthy?
 
No, im putting pressure on my body by eating garbage, but i still get results.
 
Juice gives excellent results, but it ****s you up completely.
 
All im saying is be careful.
 
If youre burning off 1-2lbs of fat a week on keto, with minimal carbs, do the stoichiometric equations to see how much glucose is made
 
I'll do it for you tommorow morning, i need to leave now, got places to go and people to see
 
remember-im not challenging it, im just saying be careful, with ANY diet.

right, certain tissues do need the glucose. thats the reason for a CKD and TKD. the body has enough glucose stored in it for normal day to day life when on an SKD however that wouldnt work for us who lift. thats the purpose of the ckd and tkd, supplying enough glucose/carbs to handle intense activities, but not so much that it kicks us out of ketosis for an extended period of time

not that it's necessary to actually be in ketosis to get many of the benefits of low carbs

ORIGINAL: David1991

ORIGINAL: MikeMahony

Monday through Friday:

2800 calories
70 g. carbs
350 g. protein
125 g. fat

Saturday:

3500 calories
262 g. carbs
306 g. protein
136 g. fat

Sunday

3800 calories
285 g. carbss
332 g. protein
148 g. fat

i just realized how much protein your taking in, i was expecting more fat. with such low carbs, but still enough to actually be using glucose as your main fuel source, i would think that your body is using a lot of protein for fuel right now converting it to glucose. clearly your getting good results so maybe it's just using dietary protein.

as far as total amount of carbs throughout the week it's near midway between what i'm eating now (230 on average) and the AD diet. this is getting me thinking about just lower carbs when bulking (cycling them which ive been doing) than needing to be getting keto/near keto levels of carbs. i think it would be smartest to have the high carb days on workout days though

 
David, my ratios are 10/50/40 (carb/protein/fat) Monday through Friday and 30/35/35 (carb/protein/fat) on weekends.  The fat is plenty high enough, but I get it through nuts and that sort of thing.
 
The AD says to hit 50 g. of carbs a day, but when you read it carefully (I actually have the book) you will find that the doc says it is ok to have as much as 100 g. of carbs per day depending on your total caloric intake.
 
 

Just completed a 12 week High Intensity Training program.  52% average increase in weight lifted for each exercise.  Up 12 lbs. body weight, down 1.78% body fat for an increase of 14.02 lbs. LBM and a decrease of 2.02 lbs. of fat. 

100g? i havent completed the book (dont know if i will) but he always said keep it under 50 if i remember, better if 30.

still thats a ton of protein, but im getting about 2g per pound of BW right now and thats been fine.

whats ur workout split like? i would think you'd want to have an intense workout saturday morning.

ORIGINAL: David1991

100g? i havent completed the book (dont know if i will) but he always said keep it under 50 if i remember, better if 30.

still thats a ton of protein, but im getting about 2g per pound of BW right now and thats been fine.

whats ur workout split like? i would think you'd want to have an intense workout saturday morning.

 
He's got meal plans that show higher calories and higher carbs.  At 2 g. of protein per pound, I'd be at 400 g. of protein and clearly I'm way under that. 

Just completed a 12 week High Intensity Training program.  52% average increase in weight lifted for each exercise.  Up 12 lbs. body weight, down 1.78% body fat for an increase of 14.02 lbs. LBM and a decrease of 2.02 lbs. of fat. 

Right, you use carb up periods to handle the workouts etc.....thats my point, why not just have the carbs all the time?

Your body obviously needs glucose, in large amounts, lets go with that Equation

Glycerol is formed of C3 H8 O3 which weighs 92 grams per mol

Fats in general are branches about...10 carbons long to 15 carbons long, lets go with 13, 13 carbons with hydrogens (however its unsaturated so there will be less) is around 135 grams per mol.

So thats 227 grams per mol of fat (average of course)

125 grams of fat equates to about half a mol per day of fats (I dont need this to be terribly accurate to prove my point)

Half a mol of fats can obviously then make half a mol of glucose from the glycerol.

Half a mol of glucose...glucoses RMM 180 grams per mol

we have made half a mol, equating to 90 grams of glucose made possible from the fat intake, then lets take into account he has 70 grams also in there, which will be broken down into glucose, and we get a nice 160 grams

It however doesnt stop there, lets say you lose a modest 1lbs of fat weight during that week, thats 450 grams of fat, which is around 2 mols of it,, and 2 mols of fat makes 2 mols of glucose, which is another 360 grams, i would divide it by 7, but saturdays and sundays are carb up days so its doubtful fat will be burned to any degree at all then, so il divide it by 5

360 / 5 = 72 grams, so now the glucose weight is up to 232 grams



You can also take into account the possibility of gluconeogenesis from alanine, however thatd just be pedantic.


My point is if the body needs it, itl do its best to make it, and chances are under your keto diet, your body is making all the required glucose, which of course, is great, but why not just give it direct glucose?

Why make your liver go through such hard tasks of converting all that glycerol?

Its not designed to do that on large everyday scales, only starvation scales.

You have a business, you can be self sufficient and get your own materials, or you can buy them off someone else and have to increase your prices for the same profit


whats better?

I dont see the point in FORCING the body to make glucose when its much easier to simply eat carbs.

not that it's necessary to actually be in ketosis to get many of the benefits of low carbs

 
you also said ketosis isnt nessecary for the benefits of low carbs, so what does low carbs do???
Biologically speaking?
 
You dont have to be in ketosis (high fats) to benefit low carbs, but then you question mikemahony for having high protein, well if ketosis isnt important for low carbs, then surely him having more protein is not a problem at all, in your quote above logically goes to this conclusion.
 
What does low carbs do?
All it does is force the body to make them, which is my point, youre on a low carb diet, but your body is still internally carb moderate, carb neutral.
 
It takes what it needs and stores the rest as fat, its the same here, itl make the amount it needs, and thats it, your starving your body of carbs for no damn reason, as itl just make them, its just putting unnessecary pressure on the body

There is also evidence this diet does cause diabetes...If you read any unbiased science book about the krebs cycle, and then diabetes, you can see a direct link between ketogenic diets and diabetes...but whatever, you clearly love the keto diet and will hear nothing about it.

High carb diets have problems
Low carb diets have problems
High protein diets have problems
Low protein diets have problems
High fat diets have problems
Low fat diets have problems

No bodybuilding diet will be truly "problem free" because were purposefully making out bodies a lot bigger than theyre designed to be, sure they CAN grow, it doesnt mean they should, its still putting the body under pressure.

Its a bit silly to preach about keto and say nothing ill of it david, everytime a little snag is hit its always defended by "but thats not much of a problem"

Maybe not to you personally, but when it comes to crunch time all diets have ill effects and problems.

A balanced diet does not, however a balanced diet grows muscle relatively slower compared to other methods (such as keto, carb cycling, protein cycling etc etc)

ORIGINAL: twistedlink

Half a mol of fats can obviously then make half a mol of glucose from the glycerol.

Half a mol of glucose...glucoses RMM 180 grams per mol

why would you think half a mol of fats can make half a mol of glucose. if you have half a mole of fat only about 1/20 of a mole of glucose would be made from the triglycerides being broken down. that basically makes the rest of your calculations pointless unless i'm missing something

ORIGINAL: twistedlink

There is also evidence this diet does cause diabetes...If you read any unbiased science book about the krebs cycle, and then diabetes, you can see a direct link between ketogenic diets and diabetes...but whatever, you clearly love the keto diet and will hear nothing about it.

i dont love the keto diet, but i think it can work well. so can a balanced diet obviously. and i would love to see a real study showing that a keto diet can cause diabetes any more so than a balanced diet

ORIGINAL: twistedlink

Its a bit silly to preach about keto and say nothing ill of it david, everytime a little snag is hit its always defended by "but thats not much of a problem"

the reason i talk about the good in it is because people here are obsessed with talking trash about it without ever having tried it or spending the time to do a little research. of course it has some problems but not too many IMO, especially if only done for a short term

ORIGINAL: twistedlink

Maybe not to you personally, but when it comes to crunch time all diets have ill effects and problems.

A balanced diet does not, however a balanced diet grows muscle relatively slower compared to other methods (such as keto, carb cycling, protein cycling etc etc)

a balanced diet grows muscle slower than a keto diet or carb cycling...?