I Hate My Body
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I Hate My Body - 10/4/2005 12:49:19 PM
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MarchHare
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I don't know what I hope to accomplish with a post like this...I guess it's more for my own venting benefit than me seeking advice, since there really is no answer to my rather unique (and, it turns out, hard to understand) problem and I really don't want to hear anybody trying to talk me into "loving myself the way I am" or to reason with me regarding social norms, i.e. "girls love big guys", "most men want to be taller and get bigger", etc., etc. I'm not really interested in fitting in nor do I feel affected, as most do, by whatever standards the media or whomever has conjured up. In other words, I don't look at a fitness or bodybuilding magazine and feel inadequate...I don't really want that sunny, hearty, muscled look most guys seem after.
I am about 6'3", weight about 230. I can certainly stand to lose some...I'm not quite where people would call me "fat", yet I also hide it well and when you're bigger, people tend to see you as "big" whether you have a tummy or not.
For awhile, I've tried to look for ways to get rid of my size. I'm not particularly muscular, but at 6'3" with broad shoulders, you're pretty much stuck being seen as big no matter what you do. I tried starving and got sick within a day or two, and although I could certainly do it more sensibly (I basically was eating three boiled eggs for breakfast, a very small salad for lunch, and no dinner), I still look in the mirror and even after mentally subtracting the fat, I don't see a slender body. I'm not saying I could never be in shape, have a flat stomach, etc. I'm saying that my chest and shoulders embarrass me. I'm not even strong, nor do I really need to be, so I've resisted lifting weights in the past since I figured "Why should I take the time to do it when I don't want to be seen as big and strong?"
The most common question people ask when they hear this is "But why don't you want to be big and strong? Why don't you want to be seen as masculine and manly? Don't you want to be able to protect your girlfriend, to be seen as healthy", etc. Basically, the answer, as hard as it is to believe, is no.
First off, strength has very few practical purposes in our lives. I work in an office and never have to lift anything heavier than a box of copy paper. I have never had serious health problems before, and while I am overweight, I am still active enough so that I can ride my bike five miles without having a heart attack or climb the stairs when the elevator is down in my building. I'm not saying that I have contempt for those who choose to develop muscles and achieve a more athletic physique....I'm just saying that not everybody feels the need to project that.
Second, the masculinity issue. I'd like to think that we have advanced to the point where stereotypical views of masculinity would be put to rest. After all, Brad Pitt, for example, is not some big hulking mass (except in Troy). Many of the men seen by most women as attractive are actually relatively small-statured. Sure, guys like Vin Diesel and The Rock will always have their fans, but I don't think either is held up to be a universal symbol of attractiveness the way, say, Jude Law has been. That said, I don't think masculinity should be defined merely by brute force. As for the rather melodramatic (though oft-used) example of "protecting" one's girlfriend, wife, family, etc...I simply don't think that it's some masculine rite-of-passage where sometime a man will have to protect his woman. I mean, honestly...if I were 5'8" and skinny and some big guy liked my girlfriend, does that mean he'd most likely just take her from me, shove me out of the way, and tell me that if I didn't like it I could fight him? This sounds more like an attitude for the schoolyard than normal adult life. I live in one of the biggest cities in the country, notorious for crime and gang activity, and I have never felt that my size saved me from bullying from criminals or street people or whatever. My neighborhood has its share of crime, and yet I don't hear stories of massive criminals preying on the ectomorphs of the neighborhood.
Third, the health issue. I know that in the past few years, stories of obesity and health have really kicked into high gear. Yes, it's probably preferable to have low body fat than high body fat. Yes, it's good to remain active just for general health's sake, and one shouldn't subsist on Mountain Dew, Doritos, and Eskimo Pies, but still... I know plenty of relatively overweight people who may not be next in line for the Boston Marathon, but do not suffer from diabetes, heart problems, or have mobility issues. Fat acceptance or no fat acceptance, a person can be overweight and still not be one step away from death's door.
As I said earlier, this missive is really for my own purposes. There is no real answer: obviously, one's build can only change so much, and one look in the mirror lets me see that I will never be able to NOT be seen as a big guy. It's not just a matter of slimming down...I believe I can have a totally flat stomach, but that still doesn't change the way my body is shaped, and that makes it all the more frustrating. If I were hugely overweight and complaining about how I hated being fat, I would almost expect someone to tell me that there were many things I could do to change my appearance. The frustration here is that I CAN'T do anything to erase the things I hate...and what's more, I'm expected to feel pride whenever someone says "Whoa...you're big!", "Did you ever play football in high school?", "I love feeling small next to you", etc. As a guy, I'm really not "allowed" to express dissatisfaction regarding my body at all, that privilege being reserved for women and maybe the occasional hyperscrawny or morbidly obese male. I'm supposed to keep my mouth shut and just let everyone assume I'm just like every other guy out there, and that's what I hate the most. I hate that people keep trying to get me to share their view on things, to subscribe to the standard opinion so that I can fit in and put on a facade of being confident. Why should I want to seem confident when I know I really don't like a lot of things? Why should I pretend to be happy?
Anyway, that's basically it. If anyone bothers to respond to this, I'll welcome remarks as long as it's not either the "love yourself the way you are" or the "quit whining" ilk. This isn't about fishing for compliments, since I really don't care what someone else thinks about how I look, nor is it a plea for advice, since there really is none.
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RE: I Hate My Body - 10/4/2005 1:32:00 PM
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twistedlink
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if your bones are shaped broad then no you cannot do anything.
Sure you could lose weight, but a thinner stomach will make your upper body look even more broad funnily enough.
No girls don't usually like hulking mounds of muscle
I have killer biceps, does my girlfriend care? No, but she loves my 6 pack, which is what most of the skinny guys have lol.
I can understand how you would get annoyed, youre fed up of being stereotyped?
You feel as though because youre tall and big you have to somehow live up to this body stature and do everything tall and big people are expected to do?
what everyone says is true though, most men do want to be taller, and most men want to be bigger, it is a natural thing a man usually has hard wired into there brain, its a instinct thing....
Maybe you haven't ever been attacked before in the streets at midnight, but take it from someone who's seen a lot of crime and has heard some pretty greusome stories-If you're not big where i live, youre ****ed if you get attacked quite frankly...and what ive seen and heard is the light stuff.
I guess you just havent ever needed strength so you dont feel you need it-which is fair enough, its like me, ive never needed to speak french, so i skipped the lessons, didnt do the work, and took the piss out of the french (note:dissing the french isnt racist, as dissing the french is a mutual understanding of every country, funnily enough even france LOL)
so i can understand where youre coming from.
As to protecting your girlfriend etc that too is manly instinct.
You shouldn't hate your body, i wont say you shouldn't love your body, but don't moan about what you have, at least you're not in a wheelchair, at least you are indeed healthy.
While your BMI shows youre overweight, youre not very overweight, and broadness doesnt help, im assuming you have big bones?
I used to have a fat friend
He was 16 stone (around 240 ish lbs) before i knew him, i knew him at 15 stone (14lbs to a stone) and he was a big fat lad then, hes gone down to 13 stone 10lbs or something now since hes been coming to the gym with me, and he's 5'11 like me, and he is damn big, broad shoulders etc, and funnily enough even with that size he isnt very strong, i beat him in everything apart from cable exercises and leg exercises,and he has like 5lbs extra on the bench on me.
and everyone still calls him fat even though he has lost a good 30lbs
he is now pretty near normal weight for his height, but he just looks fat because like you have, has broad shoulders etc, and it pisses him off too, though he likes people saying he's strong.
I don't mean to pry or anything, its just the way you have written it....you've worded things...well if i get to the point (and i have experience in this field) do you happen to suffer from narsiccistic personality disorder?
Its just a hunch.
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(in reply to MarchHare)
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RE: I Hate My Body - 10/4/2005 1:57:15 PM
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MarchHare
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Thanks for your post. I've learned not to expect much in the way of thoughtfulness from people...they assume that I'm crazy for having a differing opinion, and usually either assume I'm gay and still in the closet about it or, ridiculously, that I want a girl who's going to find me ugly.
I admit that I was bullied when I was younger, but now that I'm an adult and don't generally get into physical altercations, the idea of appearing strong to protect myself seems a bit pointless. I live in a neighborhood where the helicopters go overhead, but I think most of the crime is drugs... As far as protecting a girl...I'm not saying I wouldn't do it, but those situations don't come up that often. I don't think that guys are piling into gyms to get bigger just so they can protect their girlfriend. Besides, my gig is that I'm not into all that genetic hardwired "dominant male" archetype.
Thanks for not trying to preach to me about "learning to love" myself. I value my opinions a lot and am even a bit proud that I'm not like every other guy out there...that only adds to the frustration when I look like any average everyday guy.
One of the main reasons I hate this is because, as you asked, people DO expect different things from me. I'm not saying they expect me to be violent or anything, but the few women who are attracted to me clearly feel that men should be men and women should be women, and I don't share that belief. They see me and assume I'm your average teddy bear type who can protect them and likes his beer, his sports, etc. My sensibilities are much different...hence me wishing I were smaller.
I'm sorry for your friend's predicament. People don't tend to call me "fat" (whether by courtesy or fact is unknown *lol), but they will always mention me being big. At my last job, whenever something needed lifting, it was always 'We need your strength" (even though I'm not that strong). If a bum asks me for change, it's always "Hey, big man...you got any change?" Every girl I ever dated asked me if I played football in high school and made remarks they thought were flattering about how they loved how they could feel tiny next to me. I just don't want the type of girl who is into that type of guy...and they clearly don't want a big guy who isn't in line with traditional gender roles. They were usually not very bright or sophisticated girls...
I don't think I have narcissistic personality disorder since I clearly don't like how I look. I may be possibly schizoid (which, as you may know, isn't quite as horrid as it sounds *lol) and body dysmorphic disorder has been brought up before. However, BDD tends to concern itself with people who have exaggerated or unrealistic ideas of their appearance, e.g. the slender girl who believes herself to be obese. I'm not saying I'm a giant nor that I'm monstrously fat. I'm tall and broad shouldered, and judging by the comments I get (see last paragraph), I'm not the only one who notices it.
Thanks again for your remarks. I'm planning on just following a regular fitness program (Body for Life) since I know that a more restrictive diet probably is only going to make me sick.
(in reply to twistedlink)
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RE: I Hate My Body - 10/4/2005 3:46:15 PM
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twistedlink
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NPD with schizoid isnt good
a very smart NPD (i had (HAD) mild NPD, and not boasting but am quite smart< being modest) you learn to write things in ways to make people speak nice things about you as a confidence booster, the way you wrote it, seemed to me as though you was cleverly expecting people to psychologically hit back with
YOU SHOULD LOVE YOURSELF etc etc.
It must be annoying for you considering most of the girlfriend you now have youll think theyre only going out with you because they expect you to be a strong footballer man?
I dont love my body, but i dont hate it either, i am content with it(though i wish i was taller LOL funnily enough what you say many men say lol), and i appreciate my genetics to be rather strong and am happy im healthy, i think you are the same but so many people expect stereotypes out of you, you have taken it out on yourself, and so hate your body, don't let peoples remarks get you down so much, sure it annoys you but dont pent it up into yourself with aggresion, it will just lead to starving yourself like you did beforehand.
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The hopefully only temporary OOB, dont worry i dont bite lol.
(in reply to MarchHare)
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RE: I Hate My Body - 10/4/2005 4:34:23 PM
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MarchHare
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I guess I don't really care if people write nice things about me. It seems to me that most people have problems forming their own opinions, either by fear of offending someone or because it's simply easier to just go with what the majority says. What annoys me is that when somebody DOES have an opinion uninfluenced by the majority, they regard it as invalid. If I were a girl who was complaining about being very tall or very big (not meaning hugely obese), for example, I think people would be more understanding since the norm is for girls to want to be skinny, if not shorter than most guys. However, if a guy complains, it's invalid since people tend to expect men to want the same thing. I guess I tend to take a bit of an arrogant tone because I've heard most of the replies before, and people do tend to say the same thing:
1) Love yourself the way you are (in other words, try to ignore my own opinion)
2) God made you that way for a reason (I'm an atheist, and even if He did, what special reason would he have to make me big?)
3) Looks don't matter (Riiiight...note that the people who tend to parrot this belief are those who have the least to benefit from admitting that looks do matter)
4) Guys are meant to be big and strong (then girls were meant to do the laundry, etc.?)
I'm not trying to paint a picture of myself as some sort of hot guy who shuns girls left and right...very few girls notice me and I haven't dated in about a year. However, the girls who did seem attracted to me made a big deal about my size. Another part of the problem was that I didn't respect any of them, nor their opinions...they tended to be fairly dimwitted and even a bit trashy and it was pretty clear that they did not really have many options in the dating world.
I have learned over the years not to mention hating my looks so much. I admit that I am often overeager to let people know that I hate it because I want to stand out and for them to see me as someone with unique views and not just another stonebrained guy who wants the same thing everyone else wants. It's not just a desire to stand apart...I honestly DO find it more attractive when a guy is smaller and scrawnier. I guess I always hated the jocks and athletes in school and want/wanted to be scrawny so I could stand out from them...I don't really care that most girls want a guy like that...I don't want most girls. *lol
I'm never going to "love" my body. I'm going to get in shape and try to demonstrate who I am through how I dress, etc. I have noticed that many guys who work out will have tattoos, wear tank tops in public, and adopt other sartorial touches to flaunt their muscles and show everyone how badass they are. I tried to dress weird and different, in a punkish sort of way, but it looked ****ing ridiculous on me.
(in reply to twistedlink)
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RE: I Hate My Body - 10/4/2005 5:33:31 PM
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3DAYS2GLORY
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March..
wow what a post!
I was skimming through it, and for lack of better words..could not find your "main" point of your passage.
There are a few things I want to say though..
firstly, I dont know how old the obese people you are reffering to are..but certainly we should not be in any way shape or form promoting obesity by saying you may have a chance at bypassing diabetes or heart diesase.. illness cased by obesity does not happen overnight, it is a process that rears its ugly head over time..and just as you hate hearing "you should be a big man to protect your woman", and other quotes you claim to have no merit, or are false truths..you yourself, should not be promoting such false truths about obesity. There is NOTHING healthy that comes from obesity. Nothing. Ones risk for deadly diseases DRAMATICALLY increase with obesity. Being overweight is not something at all people should "take a chance" with.
Your problem, is denial. You say you care not what others think of you, but rest assured, if you took the time out of your day to write such a lengthy post, one which you refer to as a rant..you DO care. When you dont care..you would not waste your time inflicting your views on others, and especially defending your current physique.
I am in NO WAY bashing you here..I am just trying to help you get out of this viscous mental rut you are in..which is a neverending cycle of denial, and self loathing thoughts.
Step outside of your shell and allow goodness inside. You found db.com for a reason. You felt SOMETHING inside of you that was strong enough to compell you to write not one, not two, not three sentences..but a complete vent. If you truly want to feel better about yourself..regardless of what bone structure you feel you carry (and YES you CAN feel confident in your own skin..you just dont see it now, because you see things through pessimistic eyes)..you will need to expand your mind and allow yourself to change for the better.
You feeling upset with yourself, and ranting and raving at the world....has solved....what so far in your life?
I hope you stay here at DB and get the help you need to get yourself on the right track. You can learn how to change the way you feel about yourself....if you give yourself that chance.
Best of luck to you.
< Message edited by 3DAYS2GLORY -- 10/4/2005 5:36:32 PM >
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(in reply to MarchHare)
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RE: I Hate My Body - 10/5/2005 11:32:31 AM
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MarchHare
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Thanks for your post.
I think that while a person with pre-existing conditions has to be especially concerned with their weight, I know many relatively thin people who don't ever exercise nor follow a particularly healthy diet. A lot of the news in the media is really common sense stuff (is it really new news that vegetables are good for us, fast food isn't, and getting regular exercise is a benefit?), but I think that people often enjoy reading about changing their life than doing it. Also, I refuse to look at every overweight person as a walking death trap...I even recently read a magazine article instructing men to not date overweight women because they were a "bad long-term investment".
It's sort of ironic, the whole "I don't care" thing. To an extent, of course I care what people think of me. It sounds fine to say "I don't care what people think", but how we are seen by others IS important, like it or not. What I meant is that I don't really care if someone else sees me as attractive...I hold my own standards for myself, so when people tell me that some girls like big guys, that doesn't really mean anything to me.
I'm not really here to learn to change the way I feel about myself. I'm not going to pretend I like being this way...I'm not hideous, but still, I don't see being big like this as a good thing. I realize nothing much can be done about it (hence all the frustration and ranting). I'm just trying to deal with both: 1) what can be done with my body so at least I can lose some weight, and 2) how to deal with the fact that if the past holds true for the future, people are always going to notice and point out my size and expect me to like it. I don't need to get to the point where I'm flattered by their remarks...I just want to figure out a way to let people know I'm not just some standard big strapping manly type. Complaining about it to people just got me a lot of odd looks, rude comments, or motherly attempts to convince me that looks didn't matter and that I should love myself the way I am.
(in reply to 3DAYS2GLORY)
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RE: I Hate My Body - 10/5/2005 8:38:32 PM
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tootyfruit
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It's my personal belief that everyone can have any body type they want, within reason. We might not be able to be quite as toned as brad pitt or as big as The Rock but I think anyone can pick the type of shape they want to be in. After all, you never see a fat marathon runner and I guarantee that they didn't start out with similar body types. It appears that you want to have a trim build. I will make some suggestions.
1. First eat your normal calorie intake and keep a journal of all the calories you have taken in for the week(and where they come from). Then check one of the numerous calorie calculators online to get an idea of what you should be eating with the weight you want. Slowly lower your calorie intake to that level and then slightly below it(over say a month..). If you starve yourself you will mess up your metabolism and your body will be used to using less calories and once you eat normal you will be heavier than before. If you jump down to that level all at once you will not be able to mentally stick with it.
2. It helps if a good number of your calories come from protein say at least 100 grams a day. Protein takes more energy to burn than carbs or fat so its like you are eating less calories than you actually are. Your calorie journal will also help you keep track of what foods are not worth it. Like ranch dressing or fried anything.
3. Weight lifting can help you lose weight. Lift light with many reps for endurance and toning. You will build long muscles that wont be as bulky but they will still help burn calories because muscles of course love teh calories! Don't spend your time working on abs though that will only make you look fat. When doing workouts focus on your larger muscles or exercises that work many muscles.
4. Find some sort of cardio that you will do a few hours a week. DDR is fun! Or maybe swimming is more your thing.
Anyways, over the summer I went from 170ish to 145 trimming up. I've decided to go with something different, however. A couple weeks ago I started lifting and this last week I raised my weight from 150 to 157 and my bicep curls have gone up 10 pounds in a week. I think many people are unable to obtain whatever body type they would like because they lack the focus, discipline and, most importantly, knowledge required. Hope this helps.
< Message edited by tootyfruit -- 10/5/2005 8:41:41 PM >
(in reply to MarchHare)
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RE: I Hate My Body - 10/6/2005 12:42:50 PM
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MarchHare
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True, but I don't see any positive aspects in being big, unless it's for stupid reasons like getting things off high shelves.
(in reply to Italianangel)
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RE: I Hate My Body - 11/21/2005 2:06:30 PM
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bodybuilding is life
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you are so lucky. you know how many people would want a body like you? you shouldn't put yourself down like that, you have a athletes body! you don't sound too much out of shape but can be much better. body building is a hobby something most people do to prove something or just because they think it's fun. alot of people make a rich liveing off of healthy strong body's and to me it sounds like your putting it down. you can be both fit and smart! Like they said something is wrong because you took the time to find this web site. most people on this site are careing and understanding. body building does take alot of patience and endurance, but you can live a happier longer life if you stay fit. 45 minutes a day isn't all that much and it can help you sleep also. an example of a smart and strong person for example is good old CARSON PALMER! he can bench 350 and run the 40 in 4.6 seconds! if you don't know him he is the quater back on the cincinnati bengals. as you should know they have to be both smart and strong. well im just trying to help, you shouldn't be so critical on yourself! mayabe you can be a future body builder? i would love to hear from you again march hare.
(in reply to MarchHare)
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RE: I Hate My Body - 11/21/2005 9:31:22 PM
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danmirage
Posts: 6020
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Yea.
Iconoclastic.
You are big. You won't shrink. ok.
You want to still enjoy your life? Time to stop carrying the burdon and do it.
I really enjoyed that you don't care what people think...even though you do. I know how that goes.
Glad you vented. I been there on so many of your points. I appreciate your post.
You know what people will most likely think...but let them do the thinkin, you really are not interested in the predictable ones anyway...I am sure that people like yourself who can actually have their own opinion are much more interesting to you anyway.
That is the tough part. when we don't subscribe to the status quo, when we don't have the same feelings, want the same things...and dont see anyone else like us.
For me, lack of validation was hard. It took a long time for me to get use to myself....at least in my perspective.
I want people to value me for the things I want to be valued for. There ARE things I want to be valued for. Like you, I would get the standard lines...the expectations, the..whatever, you know what-all I mean.
Well, I found out I had to advocate for the things I WANTED to be recognized for. Find people who recognized me the way that I wanted.
Anyway...I'm there, though my issues were different by any other name. I dig that you wrote.
Being big doesn't matter at all, positive or negative...unless it matters to you.
Now, as a preofessional I am going to tell you that this...
1) what can be done with my body so at least I can lose some weight
...is easy enough to deal with.
tootyfruit is pretty much in there.
What is your body fat %...
Figure it by clicking here
use the tape measure method if you have no calipers
And your actual weight...
Then I can tell you about how much you can lose, how, and some other options.
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(in reply to bodybuilding is life)
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RE: I Hate My Body - 11/21/2005 10:33:35 PM
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No Quarter
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You really need one of those blog things.
(in reply to Misanthropy)
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RE: I Hate My Body - 11/24/2005 6:28:52 PM
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bodybuilding is life
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hmmm... i guess marchhare is no longer active. I wonder how he's doing.
(in reply to No Quarter)
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RE: I Hate My Body - 11/28/2005 5:46:23 PM
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ironraider52
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Im not fond of my body but I wont dis it.
(in reply to bodybuilding is life)
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RE: I Hate My Body - 11/28/2005 7:20:48 PM
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Vario
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You want to be really skinny? Try running 10k's and marathons. You will shrink if you run 10 miles a day. It kept me at 120 all through high school. Now in college, I am trying to get to the size I should be. I've gained about 25+ lbs of muscle so far and feel like I need another 20.
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(in reply to ironraider52)
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RE: I Hate My Body - 11/29/2005 5:01:40 AM
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bodybuilding is life
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did you hurt your knees running that much? and how long did it take you to gain 20 pounds of muscle?
(in reply to Vario)
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RE: I Hate My Body - 1/1/2006 9:11:22 PM
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MarchHare
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Hello...thanks for your posts, everyone. From a guy who is used to being abused, esp. on bodybuilding sites, I appreciate the comments.
I am still trying to decide what to do. I'm thinking of just running and biking and not doing any weight in a hope to get rid of all the size I can. I still don't want to look muscular. People keep saying "accept who you are", but to me, that's accepting that I'm ugly. I guess it's hard for most people to understand...they think any guy would want to be big.
I know this isn't the healthiest maneuver, but what else am I to do? If I'm in great shape and somebody loves me muscular, I'm going to resent them for it.
(in reply to bodybuilding is life)
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RE: I Hate My Body - 1/1/2006 10:46:37 PM
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No Quarter
Posts: 1854
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline
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Do whatever you want for yourself, I say never accept who you are until you're satisfied. Giant muscles are definitely not a common denominator in what girls will look for.
(in reply to MarchHare)
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