Hypertrophy = Calorie Surplus

Requested by few, I will do this.

Guys and girls, hypertrophy is not ultimately decided by the reps and sets you choose in your program. It is whether or not you are EATING enough ABOVE maintanence to grow. If you are doing 3 reps and 5 sets and then some accessory work, as long as you eat enough, you will grow.

If you do 15 reps and 5 sets and work full body 6 days per week, you may overreach but if you eat a lot, YOU WILL GROW.

This has been debated by so many here, but I am walking proof you can and will gain weight doing low reps. I was at one point doing 1 REP PER SET, and extremely heavy and I gained 10lb or so over the course of that bulking time. Some will argue time under tension and nine thousand other technical ideas, yes sure, okay, but don't over simply things. Just lift heavy things.

So for those of you in the training section and in the nutrition section who are worried about hypertrophy, this is my guide for you:

Lift heavy, balls to the wall, and make sure you get your work done in the kitchen so you can recover and GROW.

lol...

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Thank God someone said it. Thank you for this Perry.

I'm so sick of people posting 5 reps=strength / 10 reps=hypertrophy, no mention of sets, NO mention of DIET. You grow from progressive overload and a calorie surplus dammit.

Or people requesting "hypertrophy routines". IT'S IN THE SURPLUS! ! !

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

I posted this in another thread but I'll post it here seeing as it's about it. There is a difference between what hypertrophy is and what a hypertrophy routine is. 8-10 reps does not make a routine a hypertrophy routine, the routine as a whole makes it a hypertrophy routine. HST is a hypertrophy routine, Hypertrophy Specific Training, you hear that? It's training specifically for hypertrophy, aka mass, rather than strength (which will come with it).

The following are the principles that determine whether a routine is a HST routine. A routine specifically designed to induce hypertrophy better than another.


Hypertrophy-Specific Training (HST) is a method of strength training intended to induce muscle growth, or hypertrophy, in its practitioners. The method was popularized following an October 2000 ThinkMuscle newsletter article by fitness writer Bryan Hay****, which discussed methods he and his clients had been using for several years. Hay**** says that the training method arose out of "physiological principles of hypertrophy discovered in the laboratory," and that these principles were then organized into a weight training method meant to induce hypertrophy.[1]


Strategic Deconditioning: To continue hypertrophy, the load must be temporarily eliminated, to allow the muscle to "Decondition" and allow hypertrophic response to training once again. This process happens after the end of a 6-8 week "cycle" and can last from 9–14 days preceding a new "cycle".


Progressively Adjusting reps to accommodate Progressive Load: HST suggests that you change how many exercise repetitions you perform every 2 weeks, to accommodate the ever increasing load. Most "HST" programs start with a 15 rep, 2 week "semi-cycle" that is performed over six workouts with the sixth workout being at the exercisers maximum weight. The next semi-cycle, reps are reduced to 10, then 5, finally ending with a repeat of the 5 rep cycle, or eccentric repetitions. Each semi-cycle adds to equal one full 8 week cycle.


These are the rules of a hypertrophy routine, not 8 reps of isolations - but all of these rules together. Hypertrophy = muscle growth, which is achieved by a calorific surplus. Hypertrophy routine = these rules and principles brought together to create a routine targeted at gaining mass over strength.


And just to add to your point above MVP, hypertrophy routines are typically supposed to have no more than 2 sets per exercise.

V,
    You're the Clipart Photoshop GOD!

 

You won't gain mass doing HST without a surplus, the routine isn't magical for producing muscle mass gains, nothing will work without the diet; everything will with the diet - diet is how you gain hypertrophy.

And no more than 2 sets per exercise is dead wrong, bodybuilding splits usually are either 3 X 10-12 or 5-6 sets of 6-20 reps.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

You won't gain anything without a surplus of calories, doing any routine - but that doesn't change the fact that following these principles you are expected to induce hypertrophy more than in other routines, whilst leaving strength a little behind. And actually, 2 sets per exercise is what's generally used in HST routines. A basic split is different, but this isn't a basic split.

V,
    You're the Clipart Photoshop GOD!

 

_Virtuoso_


You won't gain anything without a surplus of calories, doing any routine - but that doesn't change the fact that following these principles you are expected to induce hypertrophy more than in other routines, whilst leaving strength a little behind. And actually, 2 sets per exercise is what's generally used in HST routines. A basic split is different, but this isn't a basic split.

Every routine advocates progress. You consider "starting strength" a "strength" routine yet it advocates linear progression; I don't like the routine personally, but it is based on principals that advocate muscle growth - progressive resistance.

In order for muscle tissue size to increase; there must be a reason for the increase. Having the week workout each week the muscle will eventually adapt to and won't have anything new to grow from. Even if you increase the calories you'll just be gaining fat because it requires overload and grows to meet the demand of stress placed upon it. Progressive overload is workout to workout progress of any form. Meaning increase in reps, sets, decrease the rest time between sets, tempo, so many different ways.

Every effective routine has general principals of specifically overloading the muscle in order for that muscle to grow. If you make workout to workout progress and eat over maintenance, you'll grow. Bill Starr 5 X 5 is generalized by many as a "strength routine" while some Olympic lifters cannot do the routine because they gain so much mass it takes them to the next weight class, any routine that requires progress and a calorie surplus advocates potential hypertrophy.

It's all in eating over maintenance, any routine will give you hypertrophy provided the calories are right.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

But will a particular routine provide better hypertrophy than the other, given that you are in a surplus on both routines?

http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/Seos-Log-2008-m442008.aspx

SEOINAGE


But will a particular routine provide better hypertrophy than the other, given that you are in a surplus on both routines?

Most routines contain the same movements, benches, rows, pullups, overhead presses, squats, deadlifts, a few accessories. The difference in the frequency and volume used in the routines as well as a set up.

If a routine would contain overhead presses after bench presses, then the chances of the overhead press plateauing is a bit quicker, due the anterior delts being exhausted before they're needed to be an agonist.

As far as routines go, everyone will be different in terms of requirements - some guys need to train each movement 1X per week, some guys respond better training each muscle group 3X per week. The bottom line is as long as the movements are there, the person will respond, most routines generally contain the same movements with different volume and in different patterns.

Everyone will be different with routines, mainly depended upon rep range. As long as the routine allows progressive overload and the diet provides a calorie surplus, there is no reason muscle hypertrophy wouldn't occur.

Additionally, the routine is not as important as the movements that make up the routine, as long as the movements are set up in comfortable / balanced proportion and there is available potential progressive overload, the person is eating over maintenance, they should respond.

Change of routine usually is due to change of volume, movement set up, and frequency - or additional accessory movements.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

The whole point if this whether you want to dispute what is a hypertrophy program or strength program is that:

You have to be in a caloric surplus to put on mass.

All this talk about specific routines being hypertrophy or strength specific with reps/sets but no talk about time under tension, I think that that is the difference here.

I was just thinking and this is an example:

Person A. Stregth training program, 5x5 lets say bench press, they do pause bench presses as if they were in a meet. obviously the time under tension is going to be greater because its not just hit the chest and go, its hit the chest, pause, then go.

Person B. Hypertrophy program, 3x10 bench. Touch chest and go, typical good form and obviously using less weight then person A.

Lets say both are in a caloric surplus, training hard enough to make all or nearly most of it lean muscle. Who comes out on top hypertrophy wise?

The time under tension for each rep is longer with the heavier weight, and could very well be the same amount of time for each set, because person B is just cranking out the reps while person A is not.

Who's to say person B while gain more mass?

Same scenario, but no pause. Will the hypertrophy guy really gain more lean mass?

Im inclined to say no from my own personal experience. But I do think that the human body does come into play here. And while everyone is a bit different, remember that we are all in fact humans, we are for the most part built the same or very very similar, so wouldnt it be natural to assume that its silly to say one program works for someone and another doesnt? I personally believe thats all about effort, diet, sleep and laziness. Motivation to actually do the program if you will.

Well i kind of went off and on with this, rambled on enough...just something I was thinking about with this topic.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

As long as you eat, your program should just come from your own personal liking. I used to like lower volume, high intensity and low frequency. Now I love high volume, high intensity and high frequency.

Either way I choose, the intensity is going to make me grow as long as I strive to put weight on the bar each week.

Another thing I realized in the gym today. When I bench, I don't lock out or go down to make sure I am right on my nipple line or whatever. I just go up and down with a range of motion that I can feel the mind muscle connection and push as fast as possible.

SEOINAGE


But will a particular routine provide better hypertrophy than the other, given that you are in a surplus on both routines?

This is the entire point. HST was designed after large amounts of research went into looking how the body best responds with hypertrophy to various weekly cycles, rep ranges and amounts of exercises and sets. The conclusion was that the principles for a HST routine will allow hypertrophy to occur faster than whilst doing another routine, although likely leaving strength behind. Whether you choose to believe this research is up to you, but this is what is regarded as a hypertrophy routine because it is regarded as the best way to increase mass in the least amount of time by experts in the field.

V,
    You're the Clipart Photoshop GOD!

 

you do realize that hst varys in rep range every 2 weeks right?

its principles are frequency and change. You go through mini cycles and perform new PR's, then change up the reps.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Yes, that was a key part of the point I made. There are very specific rules, such as that, to follow - too often I've heard people say "The 5 reps = strength, 10 = hypertrophy is a myth!" (also said here), but nobody who actually knows what they are talking about is saying that in the first place. They are saying these rules = hypertrophy training, not rep ranges alone. Just as DC has very specific principles that must be followed, so does HST. The only difference is that the rules of HST are supposedly meant to induce hypertrophy results quickly.

V,
    You're the Clipart Photoshop GOD!

 

right, and as with any other program. Even HST which is designed to put on lean muscle, your not going to gain anything unless your eating enough which is what I think the point is most of us are trying to get across.

I personally havent read a whole lot on high reps vs low reps, nor do I stand on a specific side right now. All I know is that I have seen amazing gains hypertrophy wise from being on strength programs for almost the past year.

When I start this 20 rep squat program, it will be the first "hypertrophy" routine I will have done in a long time, and I think that besides the 20 rep squats releasing gobs of GH, I will see some great gains just from the higher volume of the other exercises as well.

But again, none of that is possible without eating enough.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

_Virtuoso_


Yes, that was a key part of the point I made. There are very specific rules, such as that, to follow - too often I've heard people say "The 5 reps = strength, 10 = hypertrophy is a myth!" (also said here), but nobody who actually knows what they are talking about is saying that in the first place. They are saying these rules = hypertrophy training, not rep ranges alone. Just as DC has very specific principles that must be followed, so does HST. The only difference is that the rules of HST are supposedly meant to induce hypertrophy results quickly.

The only rule to hypertrophy a muscle is feed it proper nutrients, and use a progressive resistance or progressive overload approach.

To use progressive resistance, you'd use similar principals to HST and change the volume in order to increase intensity, example is below

Week 1-2: 3 X 10
Week 3-4: 3 X 8
Week 5-6: 3 X 5
Week 7-8: 3 X 3
Week 9-10: 3 X 1

You've overloaded the muscle each week by increasing weight; every routine - including Bill Starr 5 X 5 demands progressive overload, so those would be what you're considering "hypertrophy routines" as well.

You'll gain strength and size with every routine provided you acquire progressive overload and a good diet.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Nm0ney34


right, and as with any other program. Even HST which is designed to put on lean muscle, your not going to gain anything unless your eating enough which is what I think the point is most of us are trying to get across.

I personally havent read a whole lot on high reps vs low reps, nor do I stand on a specific side right now. All I know is that I have seen amazing gains hypertrophy wise from being on strength programs for almost the past year.

When I start this 20 rep squat program, it will be the first "hypertrophy" routine I will have done in a long time, and I think that besides the 20 rep squats releasing gobs of GH, I will see some great gains just from the higher volume of the other exercises as well.

But again, none of that is possible without eating enough.

I'm not disputing that a surplus of calories is needed to see hypertrophy whatever the routine. However some people have become confused and fail to see that there are routines out there designed to target mass gains specifically, and these routines aren't saying "without these rules hypertrophy wont occur", they are simply saying "with these rules hypertrophy can occur faster at the expense of strength gains".

V,
    You're the Clipart Photoshop GOD!

 

_Virtuoso_
"without these rules hypertrophy wont occur", they are simply saying "with these rules hypertrophy can occur faster at the expense of strength gains".

What do you mean by "at the expense of strength gains"?

Increasing resistance isn't always the way of overload. You can overload by increasing the reps with the same resistance, increase the tempo, decrease the rest between sets, even decrease the tempo to a more controlled eccentric contraction so that you have more tension on a muscle.

Hypertrophy can occur depended upon routine principals with specific programs more than other seeing everyone is different. But as long as progressive overload, compound movements, and calories are there you sure see an increase in size and strength with any routine.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Well let's agree to disagree in a matter of everyone will have their own program they stick up for and believe in and use.

but we can all 100% agree, if you don't eat enough, you won't experience any "hypertrophy"

Perrynaytor


Well let's agree to disagree in a matter of everyone will have their own program they stick up for and believe in and use.

but we can all 100% agree, if you don't eat enough, you won't experience any "hypertrophy"

I agree, we're never going to come to the same conclusion. Virt and I have been arguing for weeks over this... (no hard feelings though).

But the part in bold is $.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

MVP

_Virtuoso_


Yes, that was a key part of the point I made. There are very specific rules, such as that, to follow - too often I've heard people say "The 5 reps = strength, 10 = hypertrophy is a myth!" (also said here), but nobody who actually knows what they are talking about is saying that in the first place. They are saying these rules = hypertrophy training, not rep ranges alone. Just as DC has very specific principles that must be followed, so does HST. The only difference is that the rules of HST are supposedly meant to induce hypertrophy results quickly.

The only rule to hypertrophy a muscle is feed it proper nutrients, and use a progressive resistance or progressive overload approach.

To use progressive resistance, you'd use similar principals to HST and change the volume in order to increase intensity, example is below

Week 1-2: 3 X 10
Week 3-4: 3 X 8
Week 5-6: 3 X 5
Week 7-8: 3 X 3
Week 9-10: 3 X 1

You've overloaded the muscle each week by increasing weight; every routine - including Bill Starr 5 X 5 demands progressive overload, so those would be what you're considering "hypertrophy routines" as well.

You'll gain strength and size with every routine provided you acquire progressive overload and a good diet.

First of all the routine you posted above isn't Bill's 5x5, seeing as his routine is a cycle of 4 weeks and you are constantly doing 5 rep maxes, nothing else, with 1 day a week being an exception. His routine is also aimed at quickly increasing strength gains, the opposite of what HST is targeting.

V,
    You're the Clipart Photoshop GOD!

 

MVP

_Virtuoso_
"without these rules hypertrophy wont occur", they are simply saying "with these rules hypertrophy can occur faster at the expense of strength gains".

What do you mean by "at the expense of strength gains"?

Increasing resistance isn't always the way of overload. You can overload by increasing the reps with the same resistance, increase the tempo, decrease the rest between sets, even decrease the tempo to a more controlled eccentric contraction so that you have more tension on a muscle.

Hypertrophy can occur depended upon routine principals with specific programs more than other seeing everyone is different. But as long as progressive overload, compound movements, and calories are there you sure see an increase in size and strength with any routine.

You are constantly hitting that same point, as if I'm saying hypertrophy can't occur with a 5x5. I'm not saying it wont. I'm simply saying HST is intended for hypertrophy (the growth of muscle, don't mistake this for the strength increase of the muscle) to occur faster than when not following these rules.

V,
    You're the Clipart Photoshop GOD!

 

That routine I posted wasn't intended to be Bill Starr 5 X 5, it was just an example of how a routine can use progressive resistance, even when stalling to overload and hypertrophy a muscle.

Anyway read the post above - I'm out, I've got some studying to do, we'll never agree.

Good luck with your goals Virt.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Perrynaytor


Well let's agree to disagree in a matter of everyone will have their own program they stick up for and believe in and use.

but we can all 100% agree, if you don't eat enough, you won't experience any "hypertrophy"

But ya, at the end of the day this is what you need to know.

V,
    You're the Clipart Photoshop GOD!

 

_Virtuoso_

MVP

_Virtuoso_
"without these rules hypertrophy wont occur", they are simply saying "with these rules hypertrophy can occur faster at the expense of strength gains".

What do you mean by "at the expense of strength gains"?

Increasing resistance isn't always the way of overload. You can overload by increasing the reps with the same resistance, increase the tempo, decrease the rest between sets, even decrease the tempo to a more controlled eccentric contraction so that you have more tension on a muscle.

Hypertrophy can occur depended upon routine principals with specific programs more than other seeing everyone is different. But as long as progressive overload, compound movements, and calories are there you sure see an increase in size and strength with any routine.

You are constantly hitting that same point, as if I'm saying hypertrophy can't occur with a 5x5. I'm not saying it wont. I'm simply saying HST is intended for hypertrophy (the growth of muscle, don't mistake this for the strength increase of the muscle) to occur faster than when not following these rules.

And vice versa. I'm not against HST, as mentioned I wouldn't have recommended it if I didn't think it was a good routine. I just think it's matter of individual response, and you can gain just as much hypertrophy with one of these "strength routines" as the "hypertrophy routines", provided overload is met.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

The beauty of HST though is when the rep range changes after every mini-cycle the weight and TUT increases but the reps don't much at all.

U pick a no. of reps for your exercise (30 for me personally) then u increase the weight to ensure progression every session but just perform more sets to get the job done.

In fact a lot of people doing this routine don't regard no. of sets just no. of reps, they even stop short of failure to make sure they don't over-do things and burn out their CNS and just add a mini set after a rest to reach the desired number of reps.

It's suppose to be a "fool-proof" routine as there's recovery and maxing out all built in so ensure u progress while not overtraining.
 
oh yes I totally agree it's not a magic routine where u don't need to eat in surplus and still grow!!

i only read the first post so sorry if sumone asked this already.

If u grow from eating more...y doesnt everybody just do strength routines if u grow from them just as much as like hypertrophy routines?  youd get the size and the strength wouldnt you? instead of just size

Strength routines VS. higher rep range routines are more goal oriented and preference. You'll gain both size and strength in both but most people won't respond the same way seeing we all have a different amount of slow twitch VS. fast twitch muscle fibers, which is the factor for which rep range you'll respond best from.

Beginners should ideally work with "strength" routines because their nervous systems demand that previously inactive motor units in the muscle fibers be recruited and this allows them the ability to make linear progression.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant