How to improve my abs

I believe there are too many variables and generalizations involved in this naming process. I agree some people aren't built for weightlifting but when it becomes "i'm skinny therefore i'm an ecto and can't keep up with you" then we have a problem. I think this whole having to rate people as an ecto, endo or meso is simply outdated.

outdated?


Because our bodies have evolved that much over 30 years huh?



These various genetic differences in body type have been around for thousands of years, and you think in the space of the last 30 we have somehow gained enough knowledge to eradicate any analysis of ones body type, and can now train and eat in a way such improved that it renders any predetermined genetic attribiutes irrelevant in the eyes of our new methods?


You can eat how you like. You can train how you like. You can do with your body whatever the hell you like. But you will never be able to eradicate the fact that you have a predetermined genetic attribute which will do what it will with the tools you give it. Whether it be more efficient or less efficient than other peoples isn't an option for you. It will be one of these depending on who you compare yourself to, and comparing yourself to 'Mr X' you can do the same as him, you can eat what he eats, train how he trains, sleep how he sleeps - but you'll never progress like him. Does then stating, and accepting this fact mean you're lazy and making excuses? Well to you it does. However I think otherwise - I think you're accepting what you'll never be, no matter how hard you try, because it's not possible - fact. That's not to say you shouldn't continue to strive for what you can be, and further, but there's nothing wrong with stating that person A is and always will be stronger than you. You can tell yourself genetics wont stop you reaching that level all you want, it wont change the fact that they will.

V,
    You're the Clipart Photoshop GOD!

 

I think you're accepting what you'll never be, no matter how hard you try, because it's not possible - fact. That's not to say you shouldn't continue to strive for what you can be, and further, but there's nothing wrong with stating that person A is and always will be stronger than you. You can tell yourself genetics wont stop you reaching that level all you want, it wont change the fact that they will.

Have you been hanging out with twisted? haha

j/k. He was way too quick to call out genetics and genetic limits though.

I have to say though, that is just a terrible way of looking at things. So your telling me your fine with accepting this guy is always going to be better then you? That you dont think after years of hard work, you can become stronger? faster? even if its just certain lifts? That just seems like a ****ty way of viewing it.

I know genetics play a role, theres no way around it. Theres always exceptions to the rules. Same with body mechanics. Clearly a  big chested short arm guy is going to excel on the bench press, while a longer armed man wont progress nearly as fast, possibly as far. Simply because of mechanics not genetics. You cant dispute moving a weight a shorter distance will be easier any way you look at it.

I would be willing to bet if you took 2 guys the same weight. Un trained, in every weight from 150-300 by 10's. With proper training and diets, stress/sleep etc all in line. All natural. They would all be the same or at the very least within 5-20 pounds of each other Lifts wise accounting for genetics. And this is disregarding body types.

The whole body type argument just gets on my nerves because no matter how you try to justify it when your complaining about it, it sounds like your bitching. It already sounds like you mentally assume you wont be much because of your "body" type. And you seem to be ok with that.

Ecto's are proclaimed as "hardgainers" eat more, its simple. Soccerking said he had to eat enormous amounts of food to get where he is. Bulking is an ecto, RS is an ecto. So you have to eat more then you want to, its not like there arent advantages

Endo's have their own problems to deal with. They have to be more careful with their diets, and they have to be more active.

Its all about learning what your body type is or most similar too and adjusting to that.

If people would seriously spend a good 2-3 years of Proper training and proper dieting (dieting tailored to their own bodys, eating clean 90% of the time, getting the right calories for their goals, etc...) They would see amazing results...

But the problem is people are always usually missing one piece or more of the puzzle. so results are just subpar. Brihead is a perfect example, he eat whatever he wanted but he lifted hard. Made amazing gains strength wise...but you saw his before pictures. When he started adding cardio and cut down, he looks great.

When people are missing pieces they are always so quick to blame it on something...ecto's are just notorious for saying well ****, im just not gaining because im an ecto...oh well.

Its good to know your body type...I just dont think its a reason to blame lack of progress on. eh...ive rambled on enough.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Nm0ney34

I think you're accepting what you'll never be, no matter how hard you try, because it's not possible - fact. That's not to say you shouldn't continue to strive for what you can be, and further, but there's nothing wrong with stating that person A is and always will be stronger than you. You can tell yourself genetics wont stop you reaching that level all you want, it wont change the fact that they will.

Have you been hanging out with twisted? haha

j/k. He was way too quick to call out genetics and genetic limits though.

I have to say though, that is just a terrible way of looking at things. So your telling me your fine with accepting this guy is always going to be better then you? That you dont think after years of hard work, you can become stronger? faster? even if its just certain lifts? That just seems like a ****ty way of viewing it.

I know genetics play a role, theres no way around it. Theres always exceptions to the rules. Same with body mechanics. Clearly a  big chested short arm guy is going to excel on the bench press, while a longer armed man wont progress nearly as fast, possibly as far. Simply because of mechanics not genetics. You cant dispute moving a weight a shorter distance will be easier any way you look at it.

I would be willing to bet if you took 2 guys the same weight. Un trained, in every weight from 150-300 by 10's. With proper training and diets, stress/sleep etc all in line. All natural. They would all be the same or at the very least within 5-20 pounds of each other Lifts wise accounting for genetics. And this is disregarding body types.

The whole body type argument just gets on my nerves because no matter how you try to justify it when your complaining about it, it sounds like your bitching. It already sounds like you mentally assume you wont be much because of your "body" type. And you seem to be ok with that.

Ecto's are proclaimed as "hardgainers" eat more, its simple. Soccerking said he had to eat enormous amounts of food to get where he is. Bulking is an ecto, RS is an ecto. So you have to eat more then you want to, its not like there arent advantages

Endo's have their own problems to deal with. They have to be more careful with their diets, and they have to be more active.

Its all about learning what your body type is or most similar too and adjusting to that.

If people would seriously spend a good 2-3 years of Proper training and proper dieting (dieting tailored to their own bodys, eating clean 90% of the time, getting the right calories for their goals, etc...) They would see amazing results...

But the problem is people are always usually missing one piece or more of the puzzle. so results are just subpar. Brihead is a perfect example, he eat whatever he wanted but he lifted hard. Made amazing gains strength wise...but you saw his before pictures. When he started adding cardio and cut down, he looks great.

When people are missing pieces they are always so quick to blame it on something...ecto's are just notorious for saying well ****, im just not gaining because im an ecto...oh well.

Its good to know your body type...I just dont think its a reason to blame lack of progress on. eh...ive rambled on enough.

love it.  I mean its all been said before but this is exactly what people need to hear.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

_Virtuoso_


outdated?


Because our bodies have evolved that much over 30 years huh?



These various genetic differences in body type have been around for thousands of years, and you think in the space of the last 30 we have somehow gained enough knowledge to eradicate any analysis of ones body type, and can now train and eat in a way such improved that it renders any predetermined genetic attribiutes irrelevant in the eyes of our new methods?


You can eat how you like. You can train how you like. You can do with your body whatever the hell you like. But you will never be able to eradicate the fact that you have a predetermined genetic attribute which will do what it will with the tools you give it. Whether it be more efficient or less efficient than other peoples isn't an option for you. It will be one of these depending on who you compare yourself to, and comparing yourself to 'Mr X' you can do the same as him, you can eat what he eats, train how he trains, sleep how he sleeps - but you'll never progress like him. Does then stating, and accepting this fact mean you're lazy and making excuses? Well to you it does. However I think otherwise - I think you're accepting what you'll never be, no matter how hard you try, because it's not possible - fact. That's not to say you shouldn't continue to strive for what you can be, and further, but there's nothing wrong with stating that person A is and always will be stronger than you. You can tell yourself genetics wont stop you reaching that level all you want, it wont change the fact that they will.

^^ exactly its obvious other people arguing are not Ectos

im arguing and im an ecto.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

RollingStone

The_Bull

_Virtuoso_


It's all very macho to say "it's bull**** term for ecto whos lazy" bla bla bla

But the reality of it is, ectomorphs don't gain muscle as easy as mesomorphs etc. and that's just a fact. It's harder to gain the same amount of muscle, in the same amount of time, as someone who isn't an ecto.

Hard-gainer.



You can bs all you want saying if you were dedicated and did this or that you could gain muscle as fast as a meso doing the same thing, but I don't know who you're kidding.


Cut the 'I'm hardcore' crap.

THIS ..... Not everyone can pack on muscle fast ... There is a reason why these people have been skinny all there lives ... just down to having poor genetics. Not saying that thay cant build a decent body .. but not as fast as others.

I find it funny when you see guys who are skinny as sh1t ... and become jacked in a year or 2 and state that they are all natural ... Maybe this is where people get the idea that Hard gainers can pack on serious mass quick, with just hard work.


Anyway ... to the OP .... I think its possible to bulk and stay fairly lean (around the 10% bf mark). Just watch your diet and eat clean.

Train hard ... eat well .. get plenty of rest and all your muscles will grow.

And yes you can do mini cut in the middle of bulking, but i think the best time to bulk is in winter, a time when it don't really matter that much if you put on some fat.

I did it.  And im tha fxcking definition of an ecto/hardgainer.
 
Its all about focus.

Nah ... i seen your before pics ...... you still had an athletic body ... Im talking about the guys with nothing at all.

Also ... lol at how this thread just keeps going ....

I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. - Frank Sinatra

RollingStone


im arguing and im an ecto.

likewise.

Ectos aren't an ecto, end of, every ectos the same, should gain the same, will respond the same. RS, you did indeed have an athletic body type from way back when, that is far far better than a lot of ectos start with. Infact they have to put in 6 months just to get to that point.

Nm0ney34


I have to say though, that is just a terrible way of looking at things. So your telling me your fine with accepting this guy is always going to be better then you? That you dont think after years of hard work, you can become stronger? faster? even if its just certain lifts? That just seems like a ****ty way of viewing it.

Well yes tbh, I am fine with it, because where does it get me to cry about it? Say coleman were to never juice, he'd still be freakin huge - now you can tell yourself all you want you'll reach his natural level after years of training, but I'll just be here shaking my head at you. It's an extreme example, but extreme examples are all that will work on here it seems.

Nm0ney34

I would be willing to bet if you took 2 guys the same weight. Un trained, in every weight from 150-300 by 10's. With proper training and diets, stress/sleep etc all in line. All natural. They would all be the same or at the very least within 5-20 pounds of each other Lifts wise accounting for genetics. And this is disregarding body types.

I bet if you took 2 guys the same weight, who had never been in the gym, one who could bench and dead a substantial amount more than the other - that guy would always be out ahead.

Nm0ney34

The whole body type argument just gets on my nerves because no matter how you try to justify it when your complaining about it, it sounds like your bitching. It already sounds like you mentally assume you wont be much because of your "body" type. And you seem to be ok with that.

If people would seriously spend a good 2-3 years of Proper training and proper dieting (dieting tailored to their own bodys, eating clean 90% of the time, getting the right calories for their goals, etc...) They would see amazing results...

I don't understand how recognising your bodytype suddenly means your complaining, have bad results, and dont believe you can get very far. I started at 130lbs, you could see my chest pulsing when my heart beat, could see every single rib. I'm the most sensetive person I know to temperature change, I can eat whatever the hell I want without worrying about fat, I've gone from 130lbs to 160 without changing my bodyfat percent. I think it's safe to say I am an ectomorph.

Oh No!!!!!!!!!!!! In saying that word I have just confirmed I have plataued, lost results, think I'm near my genetic limit and certainly wont get much further.

Hang on...all I said was I'm an ecto, which it's quite clear I am. Why does saying that relate to the above? It doesn't.

Nm0ney34

But the problem is people are always usually missing one piece or more of the puzzle. so results are just subpar. Brihead is a perfect example, he eat whatever he wanted but he lifted hard. Made amazing gains strength wise...but you saw his before pictures. When he started adding cardio and cut down, he looks great.

Again the general idea is that saying 'naughty E word', means you're making 0 gains, aren't eating right and are making excuses. Why?

I'm eating well, gained 3lbs what I think to be lean mass last month, and am shooting for probably another 15lbs lean before June, doesn't sound to me like I'm making excuses?

V,
    You're the Clipart Photoshop GOD!

 

ok I may not be an ecto, however I am just trying to get the message across you dont have to lean on it as a crutch.

I am well aware you arent using it much as an excuse in this thread. IMO you have in a few places but not every time, and I will say I dont think everyone uses it as an excuse everytime the word pops up. But it happens way more then it should. Like oh well, im an ecto thats why Im not gaining. Its not just on this site, it seems like everywhere guys who cant gain get pissed and blame it on the fact that they are an ecto.

And its mostly the guys who train for 3-5 months and expect to gain 100 lb's of muscle. Or its the guys who have trained for years, but do it seriously for 6 months, then 4 months off then back to training.

Im glad you know what you are, because you know how to tailor your diet because of it. You sir, have the luxury of eating more and being more dirty. The other two types cant do that, even meso's. They still have to be careful with their diets.

3 lb's of muscle is great, multiply that by 12 and thats 36 lb's of muscle a year. Now obviously you may or may not always make 3, or have it be LBM. But I would say if your making around 25 lb gains of LBM a year then your doing just fine.

Think about that, in 3 years thats 75 pounds of muscle. 75 pounds of muscle on an ecto's frame is going to be huge. And how long did I say with proper diet and training? 2-3 years.

I dont even know why were having this discussion, just because your an ecto does NOT mean the guy next to you who is a meso/endo is going to be stronger or better looking. Some people may get to the finish line sooner, especially with all the drugs being taken these days...but its not the end all. Genetics will play a role, mental strength will play a role, energy levels etc...you cant just say Fact - this guy is always going to be better.

Thats retarded.

again good job on the 3 lb's, thats great for 1 month.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Cheers,



Anyway I think this discussion has gone on long enough, so I'll end it there.

Thread got jacked.

V,
    You're the Clipart Photoshop GOD!

 

::incoming thread jack police::

back away from the thread!  keep your hands off the keyboard!

::looks around for JMBS::

DBB's Thread Jack Police

_Virtuoso_


outdated?


Because our bodies have evolved that much over 30 years huh?



These various genetic differences in body type have been around for thousands of years, and you think in the space of the last 30 we have somehow gained enough knowledge to eradicate any analysis of ones body type, and can now train and eat in a way such improved that it renders any predetermined genetic attribiutes irrelevant in the eyes of our new methods?


You can eat how you like. You can train how you like. You can do with your body whatever the hell you like. But you will never be able to eradicate the fact that you have a predetermined genetic attribute which will do what it will with the tools you give it. Whether it be more efficient or less efficient than other peoples isn't an option for you. It will be one of these depending on who you compare yourself to, and comparing yourself to 'Mr X' you can do the same as him, you can eat what he eats, train how he trains, sleep how he sleeps - but you'll never progress like him. Does then stating, and accepting this fact mean you're lazy and making excuses? Well to you it does. However I think otherwise - I think you're accepting what you'll never be, no matter how hard you try, because it's not possible - fact. That's not to say you shouldn't continue to strive for what you can be, and further, but there's nothing wrong with stating that person A is and always will be stronger than you. You can tell yourself genetics wont stop you reaching that level all you want, it wont change the fact that they will.

 
Wow..... Once again a comment that completely attempts to twist or altogether throw new words in my mouth. When I say it is outdated, i'm saying it is no longer in favor or a good method of determing anything because there are far too many variables involved than saying "im skinny so im an ecto and can't gain as much". There are plenty of your "endos" out there that don't gain as fast as your "ectos".
 
Edit: noticed you guys said this is over so im done. Continue believing in your pseudoscience and use it as a crutch.

I had an athletic body because Ive been into being strong since I was like 5.  Pushups, pullups, crunches, every sport imaginable.  It didnt just happen.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.