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ORIGINAL: danmirage

You are thinking about a loss of 26 pounds?
But wait..what is your bodyfat% now?

Lets say 15% BF

226 total weight
202 Lean Mass
34 pounds fat mass

in this example 200 is a loss of muscle and fat..and not an ideal goal!

Lets say 20% BF

226 total weight
180 Lean Mass
46 pounds fat mass

In this example..226 at 15% would be a great long term goal, gaining 22 pounds of muscle and losing 12 pounds of fat...

The ideal is to gain muscle first, then lose fat.  Gain muscle, lose more fat.

My point is you MUST be careful to set a completely reasonable goal!!!

This is why many people fail...They set the wrong type of goal.

Many people want to lose weight.
IF the goal was to lose muscle and water weight and gain it back again in the form of fat..then they were a success...I am sure you don't want that.

Your goal should be to gain muscle and then lose undesired fat.
 
Irrespective of your total weight!

Once you get the right mindset of lose fat / gain muscle..then you can focus on a proper weight goal.

Good point.

I've been lifting since I was 17-18 and I'm now 23.  I've only had a month or two over all those years where I completely stopped. 

For the most part, I've been in "maintenance" this whole time ... but I never ate right and I never did cardio and I've been slacking over the last 6 months.  Gradually I've seen an increase in fat, especially since I moved out of my parents house. 

This being said, I still lift the same weight as I've always done, but I'm fatter.  20% sounds about right ... although the BF% at the gym (the handheld device) said something in the 21%-25% range.

ORIGINAL: danmirage

Lets say 20% BF

226 total weight
180 Lean Mass
46 pounds fat mass

I think your assumption here is spot-on.  I'm very content with my muscle size, but the fat on top is my issue ... especially in the back/pectoral area.

If I could get down to 10% BF that would be great, but I think what you're saying is set my goal to 15% and once I get there, increase my goal to 10% BF?

This is my goal:

Current:  226lbs, 20% BF (46lbs of fat and 180 lean mass)
Goal: 213lbs, 15% BF (33lbs of fat and 180 lean mass)
Extended  Goal: 203lbs, 10%BF (23lbs of fat and 180 lean mass)

Do you think it's realistic that I could get to my extended goal in six months?

edit:  I decided to get Kirkland's http://www.amazon.com/Kirkland-Signature-Mature-Adults-Tablets/dp/B000KF8OIA/sr=8-1/qid=1170704759/ref=sr_1_1/102-2155763-3467343?ie=UTF8&s=hpc multi-vitamin ... OptimumHealth recommended them.  Lastly, should I take any BCAA's on my off days?  I figured on my "carb only" day (Tues/Wed/Sat) I'd take BCAA's just like I would on my lifting days.

BCAA are for sparing muscle when you train.
Pre / during / post training
 

I figured on my "carb only" day

What is a carb only day?
 

Do you think it's realistic that I could get to my extended goal in six months?

Atually, no..you have to increase muscle if you want to do this without a net loss of muscle.
The ideal is to gain muscle first, then lose fat.  Gain muscle, lose more fat.
 

I think what you're saying is set my goal to 15% and once I get there, increase my goal to 10% BF?

Yes, but gain muscle first, then lose fat, gain muscle, lose fat....
 
Muscle Is metabolism.
10 pounds of muscle will burn enough calories in a week to lose 1 pound a week doing nothing but training easily!

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

BCAA are for sparing muscle when you train.
Pre / during / post training

I figured on my "carb only" day

What is a carb only day?

Opps ... I meant a "cardio only" day ... see what you've done to me, everything is fat, protein, and carbs haha!  What I meant to say is I probably SHOULD take BCAA (pre/post cardio) when I'm JUST doing cardio.

ORIGINAL: danmirage

Do you think it's realistic that I could get to my extended goal in six months?

Atually, no..you have to increase muscle if you want to do this without a net loss of muscle.
The ideal is to gain muscle first, then lose fat.  Gain muscle, lose more fat. .

I know this will sound silly, but what if I don't want more muscle?  I guess I could train so that my muscles become more dense rather then larger?

I'd imagine using the HST program and following it closely I will be building muscle at the same time I'm losing fat.

ORIGINAL: danmirage

I think what you're saying is set my goal to 15% and once I get there, increase my goal to 10% BF?

Yes, but gain muscle first, then lose fat, gain muscle, lose fat....

With the diet you helped me build and the HST program .... wouldn't this do both at the same time?

Opps ... I meant a "cardio only" day ... see what you've done to me, everything is fat, protein, and carbs haha!  What I meant to say is I probably SHOULD take BCAA (pre/post cardio) when I'm JUST doing cardio.

Yes!
 

I know this will sound silly, but what if I don't want more muscle?  Is there a way one can decrease Lean Mass?  Don't worry though, if I need to, I'll just have to build more muscle to get past the 15% BF goal. 

I'd imagine using the HST program and following it closesly I will be building muscle at the same time I'm losing fat.

 
Unless you are VERY good and very patient, thne you will likely lose some muscle over the period of fat loss...when you lose muscle you lower th metabolism!
 
SO, if you gain muscle first, thn when you cut it is much easier!
YOU can do it without gaining first...but you must put th body in the balanced hormonal state to optimaize muscle preservation and lose fat.
 
In the end, it is always best to cycle training.  Gain muscle, lose fat, maintain, gain, lose....
 

  With the diet you helped me build and the HST program .... wouldn't this do both at the same time?

Perhaps, if you have everything dialed in.
 
That is how the body works.  But people tend to stagnate and not respond to the needed changes to maintain gains/losses...

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

That is how the body works.  But people tend to stagnate and not respond to the needed changes to maintain gains/losses...

Thanks for all your help, AGAIN!  You seem to have a great deal of patience ... that being said, let me know what you think of this. 

I'll do the meal plan that we suggested and HIIT and the HST program for 2-4 weeks and we'll see what's happening and make adjustments at that time ... seem reasonable?

Also, if I can ever provide help to you, please be sure to let me know.  My skills are primarily in computing.

Ok Dan Sry about the GI **** i got steered off for a while. I understand what u say now unless their eaten by themselves.

Btw Dan is there anything else i can do that will cause my mid-section to "get tighter". Its kind of , you can say "watery" now flabby and stuff. Quite irritating when you look in the mirror and everything else is small then theres this flab hanging out that gives a smile to my stomach.

ORIGINAL: saternal

Ok Dan Sry about the GI **** i got steered off for a while. I understand what u say now unless their eaten by themselves.

Btw Dan is there anything else i can do that will cause my mid-section to "get tighter". Its kind of , you can say "watery" now flabby and stuff. Quite irritating when you look in the mirror and everything else is small then theres this flab hanging out that gives a smile to my stomach.

Hey man ... I'd rather have it in my stomach ... I have it all in my tits ... imagine my tits are as big as my g/f's no lie

Everyone has a different place that they genetically store fat in the tough moments...
 
You can not spot reduce fat.
You do spot store fat - in those places..kinda irritating!
You can spot store muscle.
 
The way to get rid of that fat is to store more muscle.
Muscle is what gives us the nice form and figure we like.
Muscle is also metaboliclly active tissue...meaning it burns calories...It is THE site in the body where calories are burned.  More muscle means more metabolism...
 
Then you follow the basic rules as in my threads...those rules are designed to favor muscle storage and fat burning.
 
Water, sleep, multivitamin, no stress, etc...
 
After you get the basics in place and go a few weeks gaining muscle and having a good time feeling better and getting better every week...then there are gradual tweeks that will keep it going the way you want.
 
Once you learn the pattern..you know it for life!
 
You can do it at 20 or 40 or 60 or 80 and get the same results!
 

I'll do the meal plan that we suggested and HIIT and the HST program for 2-4 weeks and we'll see what's happening and make adjustments at that time ... seem reasonable?

Also, if I can ever provide help to you, please be sure to let me know.  My skills are primarily in computing.

 
First, I see you started a thread, so I will follow you there. 
Post your diet and training (weekly plan and daily "finished"), plus your 12 week overview kind of plan...just a general overview to keep you focused.
 
My first thought is to make sure you have had a week off from training.  Second is to wait on the HIIT for at least 4 weeks.
 
You want to get each part going gradually and observe its effects so you can make informed changes!!!
 
Lastly, Get calipers and take measures as per the recommendation in my thread!
This is one powerful tool!!!
 
Calipers
 
I explain how to modulate the diet/training continuoum based on those measurements.
 
It will also be a "real" tangible way to track success.
 
As for what you do, why not tell me or PM me a little about what it is you do with computers.  I volunteer my time here as I am able, but if at some time you are able to help me with something, that would be a wonderful thing..that would give me more time to give to others!
 
Either way, I deeply appreciate you recognizing and validating the value I deliver.

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Hey Dan one thing about my workout plan for tomorrow (Wednesday) should i try to workout muscles similar to the ones i did on monday? for example i did quads on monday so should i try doing quads tomorrow?

And should i incorporate that HIIT Cycle into my warm-up cardios?

ORIGINAL: saternal

And should i incorporate that HIIT Cycle into my warm-up cardios?

No, HIIT and your warm-up should be done seperate.  You should do HIIT after your workout ... a warm-up should be exactly that .... 5-10 mins of light jogging/biking/eliptical

ORIGINAL: danmirage

After you get the basics in place and go a few weeks gaining muscle and having a good time feeling better and getting better every week...then there are gradual tweeks that will keep it going the way you want.

Once you learn the pattern..you know it for life!

You can do it at 20 or 40 or 60 or 80 and get the same results!

That's exactly what I need.  When I was 18-20, I was cut and looking good ... gave me tons of motivation to workout hard and run hard.  I'm getting that same motivation now, but from other means hah!

ORIGINAL: danmirage

First, I see you started a thread, so I will follow you there. 
Post your diet and training (weekly plan and daily "finished"), plus your 12 week overview kind of plan...just a general overview to keep you focused.

My first thought is to make sure you have had a week off from training.  Second is to wait on the HIIT for at least 4 weeks.

I've had 1 week off ... last day training was Monday, I'll be starting HST today ... so I'll be doing tues/thurs/sat.  Do you think I should do some cardio on my workout days and days off during the next 4 weeks before I start HIIT?

Look to my journal for my current 12 week outlook (to be post shortly, link in signature)

ORIGINAL: danmirage

Lastly, Get calipers and take measures as per the recommendation in my thread!
This is one powerful tool!!!

Calipers

I explain how to modulate the diet/training continuoum based on those measurements.

It will also be a "real" tangible way to track success.

I just bought it!  Didn't think they were so cheap

ORIGINAL: danmirage

As for what you do, why not tell me or PM me a little about what it is you do with computers.  I volunteer my time here as I am able, but if at some time you are able to help me with something, that would be a wonderful thing..that would give me more time to give to others!

I'll PM you later tonight most likely.  I volunteer my time on other computer related boards, but I'll send you a PM to let you know what I can do   Also, after some time, I'll probably be able to give advice on the board.

ORIGINAL: danmirage
Either way, I deeply appreciate you recognizing and validating the value I deliver.

You're very welcome, you deserve credit and my pics in coming months will do just that!

ic. So can HIT be done on days that i don't do weight training? cos my plan is to build some muscles for about 2 weeks then start doing some cardio on off days

Hey Dan one thing about my workout plan for tomorrow (Wednesday) should i try to workout muscles similar to the ones i did on monday? for example i did quads on monday so should i try doing quads tomorrow?

 

I've planned out this workout for wednesday:

Compound:
Inclined Barbell Bench Press (chest)
Seated Cable Rows (Back)
Good Mornings (Lower Back)
Seated Military Press with supported Barbell (Shoulders)

Isolation:
Lying Leg curls (Hamstrings)
Supinated Dumbell Tricep Extensions (Triceps)

 
Wait..are you following the 3-Day workout or HST....cause this looks like a 3-day style plan and you said HST??????
 
Confused.

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Do you think I should do some cardio on my workout days and days off during the next 4 weeks before I start HIIT?

NO.  Just the worm up and cool down.
 

I'll probably be able to give advice on the board.

That is one of the great things, everyone helping everyone!
 

So can HIT be done on days that i don't do weight training? cos my plan is to build some muscles for about 2 weeks then start doing some cardio on off days

Yes it can!  I would recommend you wait 4 weeks befor the HIIT start...
 
Why?  You wan to switch the muscle fiber type you are biulding and you want to create the right hormonal environment for that.  You want to completely decondition your body from the previuos cardio...Then you want to come in to HIIT with the gradual approach outlined a few posts back...that allows progresion...and the effect can be quite dramatic...

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I know the best answer to this question, but that's not good enough 

I have some events that I'll be attending in the coming weeks.  I'll be engaging in "social drinking".  Would it be best to stick to rum and diet coke ... or would some scotch and water be better because of less sugar?  Just wondering ... this will be seldom (maybe once a month) and I understand it's not ideal to consume alcohol while cutting

LOL
 
Consider those one of your cheat days...
 
ALcohol goes right into the blood and has the same effect as eating pure sugar (except it has 7 calories per gram vs. sugar's 4.)
 
OK, so how can you minimize the effect?
 
Don't drink on an empty stomach!  Make sure you have had a meal before hand.
 
If you want to get technical about it...you could plan for it by eating the prior meal with lower carbs and count the alcohol as the carb...
 
Granted, this is like choosing to eat cake frosting instead of eating your rice...but once in a while it won't really be a problem.  If it was a glass every night..that would be more challenging.

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

LOL

Consider those one of your cheat days...

ALcohol goes right into the blood and has the same effect as eating pure sugar (except it has 7 calories per gram vs. sugar's 4.)

OK, so how can you minimize the effect?

Don't drink on an empty stomach!  Make sure you have had a meal before hand.

If you want to get technical about it...you could plan for it by eating the prior meal with lower carbs and count the alcohol as the carb...

Granted, this is like choosing to eat cake frosting instead of eating your rice...but once in a while it won't really be a problem.  If it was a glass every night..that would be more challenging.

Thanks!  I don't drink too often ... used to, but I think that's half the reason why I got chubby

LOL

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Sry i got my ownself confused as well lol. I'm following the 3-day Style plan.

I'll start doing cardio after four weeks then. Nowadays my Workouts are close to 45 minutes because of experimenting with the weights. How long should it be when i'm very familiar with what to do? 20 minutes?

In the mean time would it be ok to do one type of abs exercise after my workout?

Is flaxseed oil ok to take in the morning 1hr before i hit the gym.(part of my meal 1).

 

How long should it be when i'm very familiar with what to do? 20 minutes?

 
20-40 depending on the rest and # of reps.

Is flaxseed oil ok to take in the morning 1hr before i hit the gym.(part of my meal 1).

It is fine, I alternate Fish oil and flax oil sometimes...though I use a lot of raw whole flax!
 

In the mean time would it be ok to do one type of abs exercise after my workout?

Sure...

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Theres this fish oil that i've found over the internet and it contains 1000mg of omega3 oil but only 1.5g of fat. If i decide to take it do i still take it with the flaxseed oil? since 1.5g of fat doesnt cover my meal requirement

Let me say that any fish oul you use should be certified free of impurities...
Something like this:
Fish Oil
 
That said...you ideally want 3 to as much as 6 grams of omega 3 a day.
 
You can take a combination of Flax and fish oil to round out your good fat intake...
 

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Food when boiled / roasted / toasted has very little fat left right?
so when i search under salmon and i see Raw 10g of fat i can't expect that much fat in the salmon after i roast it? means adding healthy oil would be a good thing?

I'm also interested in getting some BCAA - Optimum Nutrition 5000 powder. However when i go to melbourne in 2 weeks time for a hoiday =/ i won't be using it while on this 3-day style TBT. Should i get it and use it for the next 2 weeks?

Food when boiled / roasted / toasted has very little fat left right?

NO, much of the fat remains.
 

means adding healthy oil would be a good thing?

Only if you need the good fat to round out your diet.
 

I'm also interested in getting some BCAA - Optimum Nutrition 5000 powder. However when i go to melbourne in 2 weeks time for a hoiday =/ i won't be using it while on this 3-day style TBT. Should i get it and use it for the next 2 weeks?

You can bring whey with you and take it pre and post workout.  If you cant do that...just eat well and have a good time!
 
It is just a tiny refinement!  Don't worry about it.

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I plan to do the following workout tomorrow:

Compound:
Chest - Standing Cable Flys
Back - Wide-grip pulldowns behind the neck
Quads - Leg Press
Shoulders - Upright Barbell Rows

Isolation:
Biceps - Barbell Curls
Traps - Cable Shrugs

Does this look fine? i know i'm using biceps on shoulders and back alrdy but is it ok to do bicep curls still?

NO....you need to select appropriate exercises from the appropriate lists!!!
 
Chest - Standing Cable Flys  This is an isloation movement not a compound movement!
Back - Wide-grip pulldowns behind the neck - Never do pulldowns or presses BEHIND THE NECK!!! This is not on the list for compound movements!
Quads - Leg Press This is not on the list for compound movements!
Shoulders - Upright Barbell Rows This is not on the list for compound movements!
 
Biceps - Barbell Curls This is fine
Traps - Cable Shrugs This is not on the list AT ALL
 
Choose four exercises under the list of compound exercises.
Choose two exercises under the single-joint exercise list.
Don't leave out any major muscle groups.

Compound Exercises

Chest: Incline, flat, decline barbell or dumbbell bench presses. Wide-grip dips.
Back: Upright or horizontal rows. Pull-ups or pulldowns with pronated, semi-supinated, and supinated grips.
Deltoids: Standing or seated military presses with a barbell or dumbbells utilizing pronated, semi-supinated or supinated hand positions.
Quads: High-bar full barbell squats, hack squats or front squats.
Lower Back/Hips: Traditional and/or sumo-style deadlifts or Good Mornings. Power cleans or snatches.

Single-Joint Exercises

Biceps: Barbell curls, hammer curls or preacher curls.
Triceps: Lying barbell or dumbbell triceps extensions, and pronated or supinated grip pressdowns.
Deltoids: Front, side or rear dumbbell raises.
Hamstrings: Glute-ham raises or leg curls.
Calves: Standing, seated or donkey calf raises.

Stick to the above list of exercises for optimal results.
 
Try this:
 
Compound:
Chest - Incline barbell or dumbbell press
Back - Deadlifts
Quads - High-bar full barbell squats
Deltoid - Sated military presses with a barbell or dumbbells

Isolation:
Biceps - Barbell Curls
Deltoid - Rear dumbbell raises

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This is what i did today:
Declined dumbell press
Full Barbell squat
Pull-downs with pronated grip   
Dumbell Military press
Barbell Bicep Curls
Front Dumbell raises

For my chest today i couldn't do anymore after the 11th rep of the last set. Is this too heavy? Same for my bicep curls.
Lets say i do uncomplete sets for my exercises(happened a few times this week since i'm unfamiliar) is this very bad?

Also i can't explain why i'm so tired. My triceps, back, lats and shoulders are aching like hell. Quads to some extent. Is this suppose to happen?

Yes, the pain will happen!
 
You are tired?
How much sleep do you get?  How are you meals?
 

Lets say i do uncomplete sets for my exercises(happened a few times this week since i'm unfamiliar) is this very bad?

Thats ok!
If your goal this workout was 12 and you got 11, thats fine!
 
I hope you are keeping a journal of all your workouts!

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My other thought is that you may need to bring up your carb intake...
Carbs are your primary source of energy.
Lack of energy = tired.

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i've been getting at least 8 hrs of sleep. Usually not more because i love playing pc games =/. Could it be the fat intake? i usually only take 1 tbsp of flaxseed oil , the remaining fat i get from my Salmon that i eat alot. It could be the carbs too. I've kept a journal of my progress so far =D. Written down all the exercises as well as feedbacks after the workout and my daily calorie intake. I take my weight every week on monday and BF every month. 1 more week and i can take my BF =D hopefully its gone down!
Mayb not after today's buffets =( (my sis's birthday, gotta eat =D)