HST Type Routine

i'm a bit confused on what you're asking as far as iso workouts.

do you mean like.. bicep curls? at the end of all your compound exercises?

for instance... if you're doing 15 reps,  you will do 15 reps of a bicep exercise (your choice).
Pick a weight that you can lift for all 3, or 6 days for 15 reps if that makes sense.

ORIGINAL: ttarr84

ok. I think I get it now.  I didn't get all my RM's down yet, I split it up to be done over the weekend (high reps are killer after doing 5 reps for so long.) 

Last question (I think).
- the iso workouts that are 2/3sets x 8-12 reps.  Where do I want to start there? As in, do I start with 70% of my 12 rep range starting and move up or just always shoot for 8-12 and always shoot to add weight there?

My name is FOX.... and I approve this message.

stupid question alert.

Pullups are palms facing away from your face.  chinups are palms in. right?

age: 24
height: 6'4"
weight: 217lbs
bf% 15
____________
currently attempting first bulk

thats not a stupid question, but yes thats right.

Smoundzou, im curious to this and didnt really want to make another thread. But in terms of results, what would you say is the typical results of a cycle. My father used to tell me back when I was a pup that what you do today wont make a difference until 2 weeks from then and it will be small, but over time it adds up like that...now thats not scientific, but I was just wondering.

For progress as a natural lifter with nothing a long the pro-hormone sides, is progress supposed to be long and slow? like months to years to see drastic changes?

Sorry to jack your thread, but i have been thinking about it lately. A buddy of mine started taking some type of steroid as well as test boosters and his physic changed noticeably within 1-2 months. He is not new to lifting either.

regardless I just thought with your knowledge you may be able to shed some light on this, hopefully it makes sense.

ORIGINAL: ttarr84

stupid question alert.

Pullups are palms facing away from your face. chinups are palms in. right?

current 5rm On the texas method
Squat:325
Deadlift:365
Bench:255
My lifting journal

http://strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?s=38c084ec0455b629ed0f09e4af40aeaf&t=2407&page=8

I'm not sure there is really a single answer to that questions... There are so many factors that play a huge role like genetics, diet, intensity of training etc...

I wish I had a better answer but honestly I don't.  I can tell you what you more than likely already know.. it's not easy, and unlike so many other things that do get easier as you get more time in...weight training isn't one of them.. and I'm speaking strictly from a gaining lean muscle point of view.

The body doesn't want to be overloaded with muscle.. it naturally wants to accumulate fat so it's really a constant battle with your own body.   A new trainee might easily be able to add 7 or so lbs of muscle with a 12 week training time, assuming their diet is in place, decent genetics and of course a good training routine as where someone with more experience at an intermediate level might take a year to add an additional 6-7lbs of lean muscle mass.. But again, this is just a generic statement because so many factors fall into play like mentioned before.. IMO it's primarily genetics..

At times it can be very frustrating for someone who has trained for several years when they see the gains start slowing down and that's the primary reason so many natural trainers jump the boat and start taking pro hormones or steroids.   It allows them to several important factors.. Train harder.. recover faster...... The only real problem I see with that is.. Once you make that step over to anabolic.. start seeing good steady results.. it's very very hard to let it go.....

Again, I realize I haven't even came close to answering your question but to be honest.. Like I mentioned before, I don't think there is a single answer....

Your questions was....

For progress as a natural lifter with nothing a long the pro-hormone sides, is progress supposed to be long and slow? like months to years to see drastic changes?

Yes.. very much.. Once you reach an advanced intermediate level it can take a year to add 10lbs to a lift and longer than that to add a 1/4 inch of mass to your arm....  and it's very very frustrating for some.. and usually turns into one of two things.. Getting frustrated and quiting or taking pro hormones and then moving on to steroids..



 

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

Last question (I think).
- the iso workouts that are 2/3sets x 8-12 reps. Where do I want to start there? As in, do I start with 70% of my 12 rep range starting and move up or just always shoot for 8-12 and always shoot to add weight there?

hah. self quote wompwomp.  what i meant is.  smoundzou you said that certain iso exercises (that were labeled such) would get 2-3 sets of 8-12 reps.  where do i start for weight in terms of those exercises? 70% of what i can do 8-12 for week 1-2? then 75% for 10 rep weeks?   the iso exercises have the 2x8-12 next to the exercise on the workout

age: 24
height: 6'4"
weight: 217lbs
bf% 15
____________
currently attempting first bulk

I do a few Isolations in my routine but i don't follow the hst principles for them.. i would say as long as you're increasing the load weekly, (not each workout) that's fine.... An example would be for Side raises.. if you can comfortably do 15lbs 2X12, without a problem..do that for the week and then the next week, bump it up to 20lbs 2X12.. etc.
 
As a general rule.. your big compound exercises are going to be the meat and potatoes of the workout.. I might even suggest dropping the isolations once you reach the mini cycle of 5reps... and put all your focus and strength on the compounds..
 
to be honest.. I only included the Isolations in the routine because anytime I've ever done an HST type routine for someone without them.. the first questions they ask is, "can I include BB curls and Tri press downs" so I just decided it's best to add them in... 99% are going to do them anyway, so I figure if I add them with limited sets.. they're more likely to follow that instead of doing an overload of isolations on their own..  

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

smoundzou--
I get what you're saying.  I think I'm past the "i need iso" in my workout stage though.  The compound lifts really get me going, so I don't mind dropping the iso.  I'll have to remember that when I get the 5rep stage, I'll be sure to drop out the iso.

age: 24
height: 6'4"
weight: 217lbs
bf% 15
____________
currently attempting first bulk

No, I think you pretty much answered it. I'm not anywhere near that level of where I'm so advanced I'm slowing down a bit. Ive been off and on in the gym since high school plagued by injuries. Ive only been in the gym on a regular basis now for about a year, no injury's to keep me from lifting (crosses fingers)

Curiosity got me, was just wondering what I will be expecting being natural. I have no plans on going pro-hormone right now, and don't really expect that to change.

and also if the body is at war, wouldn't you simply fix the problem by consuming more calories? kinda killing 2 birds with one stone. You need the calories to grow, but like you said your body doesn't want to load the muscle on because it takes more fuel to run them, the body would rather store fat out of instinct I'm sure. So the more muscle you have the more calories you consume also...

thats just a guess tho

thanks for answering my question smound, you've been a big help as always.

current 5rm On the texas method
Squat:325
Deadlift:365
Bench:255
My lifting journal

http://strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?s=38c084ec0455b629ed0f09e4af40aeaf&t=2407&page=8

ahhh. I think this is my FINAL question. no seriously.

side raise = side lateral raise right?
bent over, rear DB laterals = tricep kickbacks? 

age: 24
height: 6'4"
weight: 217lbs
bf% 15
____________
currently attempting first bulk

Does anyone know of a barbell equivilent to lateral raises? I don't have any dumbells.

"A girl phoned me the other day and said... Come on over, there's nobody home. I went over. Nobody was home." Rodney Dangerfield

"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." Albert Einstein

bent over, rear DB laterals = tricep kickbacks? 

No.. It would be the same as doing a reverse flye on a pec deck machine.. only with DB's.. you can do it standing or seated.. place a dB in each hand.. bend over at the waist let your arms hang down and then with a slight bend in the elbow.. bring your arms out to your sides.. as you near the top of the lift.. squeeze your should blades together..

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

and also if the body is at war, wouldn't you simply fix the problem by consuming more calories? kinda killing 2 birds with one stone. You need the calories to grow, but like you said your body doesn't want to load the muscle on because it takes more fuel to run them, the body would rather store fat out of instinct I'm sure. So the more muscle you have the more calories you consume also...

 
Actually you're exactly right.. but here's the problem... As your body matures and gains more muscle.. that existing muscle you have requires more calories to maintain it. So naturally you're metabolism is going to speed up..
 
It's more less a catch 22.. you gain muscle, metabolism speeds up, burns more fat.. Body is in constant war trying to conserve fat.. muscles are burning calories.. you're eating like a horse desperately trying to gain.. not to mention killing yourself in the gym.. and guess what happens... eventually you're body wins.. you reach a point where you simply cannot consistently workout hard enough to support new muscle growth, due to over training. Like I mentioned earlier.. this is where pro hormones and anabolic play a huge role in helping the athlete get bigger.. The body heals faster.. has more energy.. etc..
 
It's actually depressing if you stop and think about it long enough.... You hear big guys constantly complaining about how hard it was to get big....
 
But... The huge guys are the ones constantly complaining about how hard it is just to stay huge..... It's a full time job, that usually doesn't pay very well:)   

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

HST Type Routine: Keep in mind the objective on an HST routine is not to gain strength but to gain mass.  The good side is, if done properly you will gain strength as well. One key factor for making an HST routine successful is to add weight to each workout. It doesn’t matter if it’s only 1 lb or 5lbs, as long as you’re progressing forward and adding weight.   If near the end of a cycle you are unable to add weight, continue with the same weight until you are able to. 


Cycle Length: 8 Weeks
Set and Rep Ranges:
Week 1&2: 2X15
Week 3-4: 3X10
Week 5: 2X10
Week 6-7: 5X5
Week 8: 3X5

Weight Ranges for reps and sets:
Weeks 1&2, Start at 70% of your 15 Rep Max for each major compound exercise
Weeks 3-5: Start at 75% of your 10 Rep Max for each major compound exercise
Weeks 6-8: start out at 80% of your 5 Rep Max for each major compound exercise

Failure: Never go to failure.  If you find yourself starting to stall at the end of a mini cycle, stop, rest 15-20 seconds and finish out the remaining reps. Your goal for the end of each cycle should be to get in each set and finish out the called for reps but not able to complete another with good form or assistance. If you can, the weight is too low.. If you can’t, you started with too much weight. 

Schedule: Follow the HST structure on all exercises unless other wise noted after the exercise.  On some of the Isolation exercises you will either do 2x8-12 or 3X8-12

Monday: Full Body
Low Back Squats, ATG
Flat Bench
Standing OH Press
BB Rows
Pull-ups…………………2x8-12
Skull Crushers…………………2x8-12


Wednesday: Full Body
Deadlifts with Shrug
Incline Bench
Standing OH Press
Side Raises…………………2x8-12
BB Rows
Pull-ups…………………3x8-12

 
Friday: Lower Body
Low Back Squats
Front Squats……………………2X8-10
45 Deg. Leg Press
SLDL…………………3x8-12
Calf Raises………………………….1x20 1x15 1x12  INCREASING WEIGHT EACH SET

Saturday: Upper Body
Flat Bench
Incline DB Flyes……………………2x8-12
Standing OH Press
Bent over, Rear DB Laterals. ……………….2x8-12
BB Rows
Pull-ups…………………3x8-12
Incline DB curls……………….2x8-12
Skull Crushers…………………2x8-12

<sarcasm>
Wait a minute! Are you telling me that you can have a HST with.. actual leg work! And with out Curls, and hammers...wow! I can't believe you actually want to do deads.. Are you sure thats right?

</sarcasm>

Find something worth living for, or you better find something worth dying for.

I made my best progress so far doing a routine very similair to the one you posted that I asked you about a while ago.

the reason I was asking those questions was I wasnt sure if I was in the norm as far as natural lifting was concerned. You know how sometimes you feel like your doing amazing and other times you just feel like things are going but very very slowly.

Im actually going to experiment and try to gradually consume more calories and see how that goes.

**Moderators, this should be stickied either here or in the critique my routine section!!!**

current 5rm On the texas method
Squat:325
Deadlift:365
Bench:255
My lifting journal

http://strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?s=38c084ec0455b629ed0f09e4af40aeaf&t=2407&page=8

Yeah, STICKY

STICKY

STICKY

STICKY

Find something worth living for, or you better find something worth dying for.