HST- Halfway through my first run, Heres a preview of #2

Upper Body:

Decline Bench
Overhead Press
Close Grip Bench Press
Rear Delt Rows
Dumbbell Rows
Lat Pulldowns
Dumbbell curls (standing)

Lower Body:
Squats
Lunges
Quad Raise machine
Calf Raises
Deadlift
Ab / Oblique (high Volume) Lifts not yet selected.

I just finished my 10 rep max day thursday (6/12) which means that I am halfway through this HST routine. My current HST Routine is a 3 day full body, I decided to try an upper lower split the next time around. Since I still have 4 more weeks to plan develop this routine further I in no way consider the workouts I selected to be final.
   Some of the more dogmatic HST followers might scoff at me placing priority on targeting specific muscles, like the postier deltoids but I should remind them that I am very near my target weight.This is no longer a game of pure mass. I am now starting to consider muscle proportion, not just putting on raw mass. Btw, by calling someone a dogmatic HST follower that doesn't mean that I am not eager to hear well constructed criticism.

This routine will most likely use a 12/ 8/ 5 rep scheme and at the moment I am actually considering a different rep scheme for the legs (a 20/15/ 10 scheme). The routine will either be 5 or 6 days a week. If it is 5 then I will be doing legs twice and upper body three times.

Issues I am considering:

Rear delt rows and dumbbell rows in the same workout: Will there be too much overlap? I am not too worried about this because I have never felt that those two lifts treaded too much on each other's territory. It is still something that I am looking into.

Decline Bench: Does anyone have reason to believe that this exercise provides a unique benefit that flat bench does not? I am actually very strongly considering doing flat bench or even flat dumbbell bench.

Close grip bench press: This is my most frequently used tricep workout and it has been for some time. I like it because you can hit all 3 heads of the tricep by altering the position of the elbows or using close grip on incline/ decline. Even though I do have some loyalty to this lift, I was considering doing lying tricep extensions this time around, my main objection is that it is not "compound enough". I don't want too many isolating lifts in one day.

Lower body in general: If any part of my body is done getting bigger, I feel it is my thighs and my calves. Not to sound like I am neglecting them but I actually have no real issues that I am considering in my lower body workout, suggestions are still welcome though.

A healthy body is a guest chamber for the soul: a sick body is a prison.

-Francis Bacon

ORIGINAL: Yet

Usually when I get to the top of my deadlift I'll do a reverse-grip curl.

i would say to do incline or flat over decline, decline is not really as valuable as either of those, flats the best probably
 
close grip is a more compound isolation than say kickbacks or something, so thats fine. i like lying tricep extensions too, i would say close grip is more compound but if youve been doing it for a long time, maybe mixing it up is a good idea.
 
as for order, i would move the deadlift up...im not sure the order youre doing, maybe its different but squats and deads should be up there probably in the first 2
 
the row question im not sure about, i dont really know the differences btwn rear delt rows vs db rows and overlap, but might i suggest pullups in place of pulldowns ? and also alternating push and pull like bench, rows, ohp, pullups, tris, curls, rear delts...just an idea

bulking/strength training

soon to begin bill starr's 5X5

current maxes: 
squats: 255
deadlifts: 300
bench: 185
oh press: 125
goals for jan 1:
squats: 300
deadlifts: 350
bench: 210
oh pressL 145 

Here are my thoughts about your routine....
 
If you can drop the pulldowns and do pullups.. even if it's only 2 sets of 8, you 'll see much better results...
 
instead of doing decline bench.. just rotate flat with incline since you'll be hitting your upper body 2 or 3 X's weekly or.. just do weighted dips roated with Incline press.
 
Regarding the Rear Delt Row VS the DB Rows.. the only minor difference is the grip used..(if i'm correct on the exercise) it seems if you're going to do both.. make it one exercise and just rotate your grips on the sets..
 
Since your tri's are already gettting hit with the bench press.. why not do a superset of curls with skullcrushers..
 
Since you're wanting to do HST but you also want to work on muslce symmetry.. Something I'll do every once in a while is superset each compound with an isolation... it saves time and it's not like you're dedicating special time for the isolation... 
 
I would also keep the deads on upper day... I doubt it's going to kill you but having squats and deads on the same day will certainly take away from each other.. two major lifts such as those be far better serving your purposes to have them seperated...When I do a fullbody HST cycle.. I'll usually roate squats with deads.. 1 week squat 2 X. Dead 1X  the next week is reverse..
 
What are your goals.. bulking, maintaining or cutting...  If you're planning a bulk and going to do this routine.. you'll need to put as much or more thought into your diet as you have your workout routine.. If you do the routine you have listed with the intensity it should be done with...5-6 days a week.. your body is going to take some massive punishiment.... If you're wanting to maintain or Bulk.. better stock up on the groceries... If you're cutting... stay away from cardio.. you won't need it...

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

ORIGINAL: edrice2

i would say to do incline or flat over decline, decline is not really as valuable as either of those, flats the best probably

as for order, i would move the deadlift up...im not sure the order youre doing, maybe its different but squats and deads should be up there probably in the first 2

Yea Decline is almost certainly a no go. I don't know why I got so jazzed up about it when I started thinking about this routine a couple days ago.

And the deadlift thing, they started out being on my upper day when I first dreamed this whole thing up. I still might switch em back.

ORIGINAL: smoundzou
If you can drop the pulldowns and do pullups.. even if it's only 2 sets of 8, you 'll see much better results...

Yea, Ive considered that. I just got nit picky when I thought that the pullups wouldn't follow the rep scheme. When I was in 12s it would be very challenging, 8s it would be a perfect fit, and then 5s it would actually need to be weighted. I guess I could just break the rep scheme for that lift and go to failure on pullups every time.

ORIGINAL: smoundzou
instead of doing decline bench.. just rotate flat with incline since you'll be hitting your upper body 2 or 3 X's weekly or.. just do weighted dips roated with Incline press.

Do you mean rotate between sets? So like during the 12s week I would do 1 set of flat, then move to incline and do 1 set? Or do you mean on a daily basis? Have a day where my chest is only worked by incline, then the next upper day would have chest worked exclusively by flat? I like the between sets idea a little better.

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

Regarding the Rear Delt Row VS the DB Rows.. the only minor difference is the grip used..(if i'm correct on the exercise) it seems if you're going to do both.. make it one exercise and just rotate your grips on the sets..

Well the way that I do rear delt rows is very similar to the way the example guy on exrx does them http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidPosterior/BBRearDeltRow.html

I'm still not sure what i'm gonna do on this, because I can probably dumbbell row more with just 1 hand than I can rear delt row with 2. Kinda leads me to believe that it won't be the rear delt row tiring out my back but I might need to worry about the dumbbell rows inflicting too collateral damage on the the postier deltoids. Sorry for the awkward phrasing, that was prolly tough to read.

ORIGINAL: smoundzou
Since you're wanting to do HST but you also want to work on muslce symmetry.. Something I'll do every once in a while is superset each compound with an isolation... it saves time and it's not like you're dedicating special time for the isolation...

I like that. I might do it with opposing lifts though. Like super setting triceps with dumbbell rows or something.


As for the deadlifts/ squats, I plan on figuring out some kind of rotation. Also like I said to edrice further up in this response, I can see myself moving deads back to my upper day.

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

What are your goals.. bulking, maintaining or cutting...  If you're planning a bulk and going to do this routine.. you'll need to put as much or more thought into your diet as you have your workout routine.. If you do the routine you have listed with the intensity it should be done with...5-6 days a week.. your body is going to take some massive punishiment.... If you're wanting to maintain or Bulk.. better stock up on the groceries... If you're cutting... stay away from cardio.. you won't need it...

Well right now I am still bulking. By the time I finish my current HST cycle I could be very near my goal weight of 200 if not already there. Most likely I will be in the mid 190s though. What will probably happen is that i will hit 200 I will want to go to about 210 so I can have some cushion for my cut to a leaner 200. My bodyfat is around 12% now, I want to eventually be 200 with 8%, which isnt inconceivable because I started my current bulk with 7% at 179 pounds.

As for the groceries. Diet is another thing I am planning, I am actually just about to increase all my macro nutrient groups anyway. I havn't added significant calories to my diet for a couple weeks. I will definitely look into further increasing them for the next cycle and maybe dropping them back to current levels if I need to cut towards the end of that cycle.

Thanks for the advice guys.

A healthy body is a guest chamber for the soul: a sick body is a prison.

-Francis Bacon

ORIGINAL: Yet

Usually when I get to the top of my deadlift I'll do a reverse-grip curl.

Do you mean rotate between sets? So like during the 12s week I would do 1 set of flat, then move to incline and do 1 set? Or do you mean on a daily basis? Have a day where my chest is only worked by incline, then the next upper day would have chest worked exclusively by flat? I like the between sets idea a little better.

 
I would just rotate the exercises each workout day.. 1st upper body day do weighted dips or flat.. then the next workout day do incline bench....
 

Well the way that I do rear delt rows is very similar to the way the example guy on exrx does them http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidPosterior/BBRearDeltRow.html

I'm still not sure what i'm gonna do on this, because I can probably dumbbell row more with just 1 hand than I can rear delt row with 2. Kinda leads me to believe that it won't be the rear delt row tiring out my back but I might need to worry about the dumbbell rows inflicting too collateral damage on the the postier deltoids. Sorry for the awkward phrasing, that was prolly tough to read. 
 

 
Yes.. then we're on the same page.. I was not thinking about a bar though.. but with DB's... If it were me..those two exercises are so close.. I would just do regaular BB rows and then maybe work in some high bar seated rows.. I think you'll get better rear delt response if seated using a bar and pulling up to the neck with a wide grip.. a little more stability that will allow you to focus more onthe lift than balance and core postion...
 

  I like that. I might do it with opposing lifts though. Like super setting triceps with dumbbell rows or something.


As for the deadlifts/ squats, I plan on figuring out some kind of rotation. Also like I said to edrice further up in this response, I can see myself moving deads back to my upper day.

 
It's a great way to kill two birds with one stone... with HST i prefer not to  mix muscle groups with supersets... but that's just a personal preference...
 
Like I mentioned before.. on paper it might not look so difficult but once you start getting into the middle and end of those micro cycles.. that routine is going to kick your ass and if done with the correct intensity, it's going to eat up some cals... it might even take a good cycle of doing it to get your caloric balance right.. depending on how well you know your own body and how it repsonds.. but good luck with the routine.. I'm curious to see how you respond to it..

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

hmmm.  i like your routine.   there are some tweaks we could do to it though.

1.)  what is rear delt rows?? versus DB rows?? i assume DB rows are just bent over rows with DB's.. but what are real delt rows?

2.)  agree with smoundz... if you can throw in pullups for lat pulldowns, that might be more beneficial

3.)  move deadlifts to upper body (back) day.   unless you're doing SLDL, then the majority of the lift should be felt in the lower back.  yes, the legs aid in the lift.. but i've always thought of regular deadlifts as a lower back workout myself

4.)  I'd swap decline bench for flat or incline.   decline seems to neglect the upper pectoralias muscle more than i'd like,  so if you did flat or incline that might work better.  you can always throw in a set or 2 of dips if you wanna work lower chest and lean forward more so you shift the workload to the chest instead of all triceps during dips.

5.)  you can throw in some bicep curls if you want on upper day (if you did dips already, along with close grip BP, that should be more than enough for your triceps)

6.)  seems like there could be 1 more leg exercise on lower body day, but I can't think of anything that you haven't already hit with calves, quads, and hammies.

looks great dude.  your back is super impressive.. lookin' nice.   u need to come up to dfw sometime and show me how it's done

My name is FOX.... and I approve this message.

ORIGINAL: TheSilverFox

hmmm.  i like your routine.   there are some tweaks we could do to it though.

1.)  what is rear delt rows?? versus DB rows?? i assume DB rows are just bent over rows with DB's.. but what are real delt rows?

2.)  agree with smoundz... if you can throw in pullups for lat pulldowns, that might be more beneficial

3.)  move deadlifts to upper body (back) day.   unless you're doing SLDL, then the majority of the lift should be felt in the lower back.  yes, the legs aid in the lift.. but i've always thought of regular deadlifts as a lower back workout myself

4.)  I'd swap decline bench for flat or incline.   decline seems to neglect the upper pectoralias muscle more than i'd like,  so if you did flat or incline that might work better.  you can always throw in a set or 2 of dips if you wanna work lower chest and lean forward more so you shift the workload to the chest instead of all triceps during dips.

5.)  you can throw in some bicep curls if you want on upper day (if you did dips already, along with close grip BP, that should be more than enough for your triceps)

6.)  seems like there could be 1 more leg exercise on lower body day, but I can't think of anything that you haven't already hit with calves, quads, and hammies.

looks great dude.  your back is super impressive.. lookin' nice.   u need to come up to dfw sometime and show me how it's done

I posted a link to the exrx.com example of rear delt rows, looks sorta similar to BB rows but with the elbows shifted a bit.

And yea my leg day looks light to me everytime I look at my routine in excel. I feel like its pretty well rounded though. I always need high volume for calves and abs though, so I think leg day will definitely not run short.

As for the trip to dfw. Thats gonna take time for me to muster energy for that long ass drive. Plus I now have negative association with driving to dallas, last trip I made up there ended with me getting a ticket.

A healthy body is a guest chamber for the soul: a sick body is a prison.

-Francis Bacon

ORIGINAL: Yet

Usually when I get to the top of my deadlift I'll do a reverse-grip curl.