There's something called power racks, see if your gym has one. A spotter should give you a lift off the bar and make sure you can complete the desired number of reps, he shouldn't help you with any of the reps, that's cheating.

If your shoulder is bothering you, do lighter weights, something you can perform on your own without assistance, that will do more for your shoulder than heavy weights when your partner is shrugging the weight and you're overhead pressing it.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

the smith machine helps me do the movement in a complete up and down movement.. without it i tend to push it forward slightly or it leans a bit back and it hurts and keep the bar eve.. the spotter is there to help me initally lift off cuz that hurts the most.. and helps me keep the bar even cuz my good shouldr is a bit stronger .. thats all

You move in a complete vertical pace giving the movement pattern "fixed" preventing your stabilizers from functionally stabilizing the external load in the same perspective it would stabilize in the real world, preventing smith machine movements from being exercises for "functional strength".

If you would get strong in the smith machine and return to free weights, your anterior delts wouldn't be able to perform at optimal performance due to the smith machine bar being weightless, you wouldn't be able to stabilize the weight to yourself due to weak stabilizers.

The fixed movement pattern limits your body to a single plane of motion, preventing it from working in the three planes it works in everyday life (saggital, transverse, frontal). The OH Press is in the frontal plane, involving abduction, adduction, inversion, eversion, depression and elevation, these movements are limited with a fixed movement pattern.

Your shoulders joints being limited to a movement pattern that is unnatural to it's environment is the best way to enforce energy, not prevent it. 

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

MVP

shredded06


Smith Machine Overhead Press 4 5-61 Arnold Press 4 10,8,6,6 Barbell Upright Row 3 8-10 Dumbbell Lateral Raise 3 10-12 - superset with - Dumbbell Bent-Over Lateral Raise 3 10-12
found this one on muscle and fitness a lil while ago and  been using it for like 3 weeks .. works great for me and leaves me hella sore

Soreness means absolutely nothing.

Overhead presses should be done with you stabilizing the barbell, not a machine.

[X] Arnold presses is the same movement, just another variation, unnecessary.

[X] Upright row, the king of rotator cuff injuries, avoid it. 

You're missing a movement for your posterior delts, bent over dumbell raises is a good one.

I agree with you about the Smith Machine and avoiding it at all costs, but I'm not so sure about Upright rows and I am definitely disagreeing with you on the Arnold presses.
 
Let me explain why I disagree on the Arnold presses first.  With the Overhead Press you are using a barbell.  With the Arnold you are using dumbbells.  This means that each side gets worked indpendently.  It is the king of building mass on the shoulders.
 
As for the Upright row, I am well aware that many people tell you to avoid it, but those same people say you should avoid dips, dumbbell pullovers and wide grip bench press.  Why not work on strengthening the rotator cuff?  In addition, while I acknowledge the injury potential of the upright rows, done with a narrow grip and using correct anatomical form, they seem fine as long as they are not in any routine for an extended period of time.  As I said, I am not 100% in disagreement with you about the Upright rows.  I am just not sure.
 
I now have a question for Skip Lacour's radio program next week.  I will report back on his answer :-)

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MikeMahony


Let me explain why I disagree on the Arnold presses first.  With the Overhead Press you are using a barbell.  With the Arnold you are using dumbbells.  This means that each side gets worked indpendently.  It is the king of building mass on the shoulders.

I strongly disagree with this, it involves the same movement which is pressing from the overhead making it an anterior delt dominant shoulder movement (just like the overhead press).

The OH Press isn't always barbell, if he felt dumbells would allow better individual stimulus then the suitable suggestion would be overhead press with dumbells, but two vertical pushes is just too many.

That's just going to lead to the anterior delts being more developed in comparison to the rest of the shoulder and we all know what that leads to.
 

As for the Upright row, I am well aware that many people tell you to avoid it, but those same people say you should avoid dips, dumbbell pullovers and wide grip bench press.  Why not work on strengthening the rotator cuff?  In addition, while I acknowledge the injury potential of the upright rows, done with a narrow grip and using correct anatomical form, they seem fine as long as they are not in any routine for an extended period of time.  As I said, I am not 100% in disagreement with you about the Upright rows.  I am just not sure.

Upright rows should be avoided because the simultaneous internal rotation and abduction of the shoulder can lead to impingement and tendon injury.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

I absolutely agree with you MVP about the upright raises...

The arnold press, I really disagree... for 2 reasons... although form the onset I will say it is not a staple lift nor should it be treated as such... it should be viewed as an auxiliary compound, one to be used occasionally, not all the time...

The movement pattern of an Arnold press, is not only compound (multi jointed) but also very natural one... One I find I use that movement through out the course of my day, working in the job I do...

also and more importantly it actually has the supraspinatus as a synergist... oh glory be it actually works the rotator cuff, during the course of the lift.... Military or Oh press dumbell or barbell can not boast this attribute. it works it naturally, does not put undo strain on it... just works it in harmony with the surrounding muscle groups, in a plane of movement that is used out side of body building...

My 2 cents... I do Arnolds every now and again (like at this moment), a good exercise choice for varriety and rotator cuff support. I am not saying there are not other exercises that work the cuff, but Arnold press is a good one for shoulder developement varriety.

My point is, choose between arnold presses and overhead presses. Two vertical pushes isn't necessary. Both would do the same thing - overload the anterior delts.

I have nothing against arnold presses. I just feel like them + overhead presses isn't necessary. Choosing between the two would make more sense to me. Doing arnold presses one workout and overhead (dumbell or barbell) presses another workout would be fine too. But in the same workout?

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

I seem to have reading comprehension problems when it comes to this thread... or something... I didn't see the discussion in the context of a routine, I keep missing stuff I am commenting on...pretty crappy on my part.

No, not the same day... not for this poster

 however you know what if I was doing a "shoulder day" I quite possibly would... as I wouldn't choose Arnolds over a military or overhead press.... 

because of the rotation, you can't put up as much weight compared to an OH press.

So IF I was doing some kinda of intermediate/ advanced  4-6 day body part split, i might throw that in as a shoulder "finisher"....

That is not how I tend to structure my routines... it's not how I work out... however for a different trainee...

I work shoulders twice per week, once on each chest / shoulder / tri day.  On one of those days, I do a machine overhead press as my second pressing movement, and I just do one rest pause set of 20-30 total reps.  On the other pressing day, I do either dumbbell overhead press or smith machine OHP as my first and main movement.  I usually do either a rest-pause set with that, or I'll do one set of 4-6 followed by one set of 10-12.  I also do some type of side raise on each of these days, usually for a rest-pause set of 20-30.  Right now, I'm using the side raise machine.  I'll probably go back to doing them seated with dumbbells once I get to using the stack on the machine for a solid set of 25-30 rest-pause.

For traps, I do shrugs sometimes on back days after rows and pullups / pulldowns.  I also deadlift heavy for reps every other week.  Honestly, the deads and rows probably do a lot more for my traps than the shrugs.  I also do face pulls at the end of almost every workout for shoulder health, and that has probably added a little bit of mass back there.

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