Front Squats and "Raised Heel" Squats

Are they pretty much the same thing?  I was reading somewhere else that they are, and if so, I'll switch to raised heel squats.  I just can't get my forearms flexible enough to do front squats properly with enough weight.  Also, how high should I raise my heals?

In front squats, you leave your heels on the ground.

To practice your forearm and wrist flexibility, just do hang cleans/power cleans. Your arms will adjust. I usually have to do the cross arm version.

Red PittBull's Log.

I do back squats with 25 lb plates as heel raise blocks.  Works for me.

There are two grips possible for a front squat.

1- The power lifting grip which consists of a pain in the wrists because you always keep the bar in hand


2- The chest grip which consists of the bar holding on your chest and shoulders, more comfy and easy. I use this one

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

Front and back squats are different in which body parts they prioritise. Raising heels for bk squats, I think, puts more emphasis on the quads and with this it is probably where it becomes closer to front squats. You could do it by putting some little plates under your heels. People usually do that for calf inflexibility isssues.

I remember that you do a lot of cleans? The differences between the two squats are too great to neglect one for the other just becuase of wrist troubles. Having the bar infront or behind makes a lot of difference to other things too. For example, you wouldnt feel confident cleaning 220lbs if you cannot front squat 220lbs. Practicing with raised heels back squats wouldn't have the same carry over.

I have very very flexible calves but use heel plates when I do back squats.  I use them because it feels like I want to fall backward w/o them.  Probably psychological.  Should I not use the heel plates?  Thanks!

If you feel like you are falling backward, you are probably just not making the postural adjustments to compensate for the changing centre of gravity. 
If you take a more upright posture with using a high bar position on the back, there is not as much forward lean and hips come straight down. Try a foot stance slightly wider with toes pointing out. This will open up the hips and might help. With a low bar position, hips push back more and there is more forward lean - less chance of falling backward.

Experiment with using high and low bar placements on the back, different body proportions favour one or the other. Low bar takes a little getting used to, to find that comfortable ledge.

i would do the front squat with the clean style grip; i've seen people have a lot of problems with balancing the bar when heavy with the other crossed grip.

I've been doing front squats with the cross grip b/c I can't do the clean grip with enough weight.  I don't really have a problem stabilizing it, so I guess it's not that much of a problem. 

I did raised heel back squats today 3x6 w/ 185 and they felt pretty good.  I only do this and front squats on my light day, so it probably isn't that much of a deal.

I used to do cleans a lot, but I've stopped recently and have been focusing on deadlifts more.  I will start doing them again when I get back to my normal gym b/c the have a deadlift platform w/ rubber so I won't damage anything.  Anyway, when I did them, I didn't catch the weight very well either because of my forearms.  I'd catch it with my wrist instead of on my shoulders. 

The clean grip is superior on front squats and once you get it down there is no wrist pain.  I advise anyone doing them to get the clean grip down.

Its safer as the bar has less chance of rolling off of the shoulder and it has more carryover if you plan on doing other olympic movements.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

Even though I have inflexibility issues on both calves due to two injuries I still squat with my feet flat on the ground, with raised heels I feel unbalanced and insecure.

I don't think there's a big difference between raised heels squat compared to a regular back squat in terms of muscle involvement, although you'll be able to squat lower if your heels are a bit raised

Squat max - 275lbs  30/07/09
Bench max - ¿?
Front Squats(atg)- ¿?

Whatever helps to develop my quads is what I'm after.

in that case you should definently be front squating; great for the quads.

and while you are front squatting, make your own personnal choice between both grips.
I don't like the feeling of the power lifting grip at all and I will not use it and have some incomfort in my wrists...bad for hockey !

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

I'll give the front squats a go.  I'll try both grips.  The power lifter style looks hard on wrists and rotator cuffs.  The crossed arm looks unstable.  Thanks guys!  :)

just remember elbows up; that seems to fix everything with the powerlifting grip. Even if it doesn't; just reduce the volume and practice it and wrist flexibility exercises and you will be fine in 2-3 weeks. I actually managed to get my friend who always has problems with exercises to be able to do front squats perfectly in his first day doing them with no problems so it really shouldn't be that big of a deal if you suck it up assuming you have no prior injuries.

If something hurts chances are you are doing it wrong.

Powerlifting grip?? since when do powerlifters use that grip..

The clean grip isnt supposed to hurt.  That means you just need to work on it.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

heh i don't know thats just how its been referred to from the start of this thread but yea clean grip would be more accurate.

I agree, the clean grip is much superior and once you condition your body to being flexible and holding the bar like that, its a much better choice. Especially in terms of safety as well.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Guys,
   Thanks, I got the "powerlifting grip" term  from Nic's post.  "Clean grip" is the right term?  Does the front squat produce the same testosterone benefits as the back squat?  Thanks!

no it doesnt.

Dont have any solid reason to give you other then its probably because its not nearly as much weight and its not loaded on the spine.

Its nothing you want to replace the back squat with if thats what your thinking. And the best way to incorporate it is if your squating 3 days a week to put it on your recovery day.

Doing the front squat will also help you get comfortable with the second half of the full clean if you ever decide to incorporate it. as once you clean the weight you catch it in the clean grip and front squat down.

IMO its not a necessary exercise by itself, and if you never front squat its not the end of the world, but it is a good exercise and a good experience.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Nm0ney34


no it doesnt.

Dont have any solid reason to give you other then its probably because its not nearly as much weight and its not loaded on the spine.

Its nothing you want to replace the back squat with if thats what your thinking. And the best way to incorporate it is if your squating 3 days a week to put it on your recovery day.

Doing the front squat will also help you get comfortable with the second half of the full clean if you ever decide to incorporate it. as once you clean the weight you catch it in the clean grip and front squat down.

IMO its not a necessary exercise by itself, and if you never front squat its not the end of the world, but it is a good exercise and a good experience.

N$,
   Thanks again!  I want the test benefits and to build the quads.  Sounds like back squat is best as the one exercise to achieve both.

To be honest i really wouldn't worry about the testosterone benefits from one to another. Getting all worked up in that is trivial at best and I really do tend to wonder how significant the back squat GH boost really is. Basically what im trying to get at is I wouldn't skip out on trying front squats just because of it not having quite the same benefit in that aspect as back squats. I think it could actually be good for some of you to take a month off of back squats, throw in front squats instead and add in different posterior chain movements to compensate.

I like to squat one day and deadlift and front squat another day.  I can go heavy on deads and still be good for front squats in the same workout.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

Well let's cut to the chase:  Give me a prescription for how to get me some Nm0ney34 quads.  Even if I'm incapable of getting there, how can I head in the general direction?  I'm beggin' ya!  ;)

JMBS


Well let's cut to the chase:  Give me a prescription for how to get me some Nm0ney34 quads.  Even if I'm incapable of getting there, how can I head in the general direction?  I'm beggin' ya!  ;)

get a 3 plate front squat.  your quads will be big.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

RS how much can you front squat exactly?

And yea JMBS the front squat is the king for quads in my opinion.

Does that mean 3 45s on each side?  Let's see 45 x 7 is 315.  Okay, looking back through my w/o notebooks.... let's see.... Looks like my max back squat was 215 for 2 sets of 2.  But that was probably not ATG back then.  Do I remember right that max weight on front squat is considerably less than on back squat?  Does it look as if there's hope yet or is this a pipe dream?  Right now with the HST I'm doing tomorrow is last day of 15 rep and I'll do 135 lb.  Next week I start the 10 rep routines.  Just keep adding weight?  Can I substitute out the back squats and put in the front squats?  Are the front squats far superior to the back squats for building quads or just a little better?

PumaKrieg


RS how much can you front squat exactly?

And yea JMBS the front squat is the king for quads in my opinion.

haha 3 plates...

I should work on them, theyre weak in comparison to my back squat.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

i havent front squatted in a very long time and rely on Back squats and deadlifts with Power cleans to work my legs.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"