For Losing Fat

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danmirage

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For Losing Fat - Thursday, March 02, 2006 9:34 PM ( #1 )
This is a work in progress describing how to lose fat while sparing muscle (and even gaining muscle if you play right)
 
A few answers...
"Should I cut first or bulk first?" 
If you are asking this then the answer is that you need to be able to GAIN muscle before you can LOSE fat.  You need to kick up your metabolism (the rate your body uses energy) before you get to the business of fat loss.

"Can I just do more cardio to lose fat?"
No.  Excess cardio can actually cause muscle loss.  Muscle is the site in the body where fat is burned.  Lose muscle and you cripple your ability to burn fat.  Lets clear the air on what "lose fat" means.  Fat loss can be described as a 3-step process in the body.  First you have to liberate fat from a fat cell, then you have to transport the fat to a muscle, then the fat has to be burned in the muscle.  Liberate means that the chemical environment in the body has to be right for fat release.  That means your diet must include enough of the right foods so your pancreas is producing the right chemicals and so your body and brain think you know how to take care of them.  Transport means that the systems of transport are healthy and vibrant and the demand for energy is high (that is called metabolism, which we create!!)  Burned means that muscle, where fat is burned in the body (that basically means muscle IS metabolism), is demanding energy on an ongoing basis.  Challenging muscle through progressive resistance training will do this...especially during the hours when you are not in the gym.

"Can I lose fat if I have a slow metabolism"
Metabolism is the rate your body uses energy (known as calories.)  We create our metabolism.  We train our body to be better and better at burning energy.  So, yes.  You can take responsibility and retrain your body.


#1 diet - most important
You need to be eating enough calories so that your body is not in survival mode! 

If you starve yourself, you will lose muscle and gain fat. 
(That basically means you should not deplete calories below your basic metabolic needs...i.e. BMR....which could be roughly figured as weight in pounds x 10.)

If you reduce calories drastically for extended periods of time you will lose muscle and improve your ability to gain fat.  That means do not try to lose fat with caloric reduction for extended periods of time! (Unless you are prepping for a contest..then, you know you will lose some muscle along the way...and you should know how you will bulk up agian after.)

We know that 500 calories under your "maintenance" per day will get you -1 pound a week...if you lose more than 2 pounds a week, some will likely be muscle and water...so you have to decide what weight you want to lose. One might take 300 from diet and deplete 200 with exercise and cardio to begin. 

You can even gain 1/3 to 1/2 a pound of muscle a week while dropping fat if you play it right!

And yes, when you know how it all works you CAN lose fat in a caloric surplus, while gaining muscle...but for now and for simplicity...lets just say you will either be gaining muscle or losing fat...lets think of them as mutually exclusive clubs for now (...until you understand the complexities!)

Before you can start to LOSE fat efficiently you need to get your metabolism (the rate your body uses calories) and your digestion optimized!!!

At least 4-6 meals a day! You must strive to eat every 3- 3 1/2 hours that you are awake.

Go to this post to figure your daily calories if you don't have a clue.
Calories needed per day for various goals <------ link for you to click
At the bottom of the post is a link to a spreadsheet/calculator that you can use... otherwise read it and estimate with the formula supplied.

Use the lowest figure in the maintenance range for you (do not adjust it!)...after a week you can adjust.

Basic meal:
A lean protein (3 oz Chicken/turkey/beef/soy...)
A vegetable (1/2 cup broccoli/green beans/peppers/ 2 cups salad...)
A complex carb source (1/2 cup Rice/quinoa/amaranth/oatmeal...sweet potato, potato...)
Sufficient good fat  (from the protein and/or Fish oils, omega 3 oils, flax oils, nuts..)

To start off you are looking for:
Protein-15-25%,
carbohydrates-45-75%,
fat-10-30%
...of your total calories

The ideal range of protein for starting off is .7-.9 grams per pound of body weight.

If you are a light eater and meats sit like a brick in your tummy then go for the lower part of that range. 
If you enjoy meats and could eat them many times in the day, and they give you energy...go for the higher end.

Target the fat % on the scale proportionate with the protein. Then inversely proportion the carbs to the protein.

It depends on your preferences and your body chemistry.  Everyone IS different in the way they digest and use food.  You have to work with it to find what gives you the most energy and power, focus and good feeling.

Yes, I am speaking from experience as a trainer.  I assess clients for where to start their meals, then assign a diet and then we adjust based upon what we observe.  This is what you will do for yourself.

Foods should be fresh whole foods.  Carbs should be from veggies and non-processed starches (rice, baked sweet potato, potato, quinoa, amaranth...).  Drop processed foods and sugars from your diet.
 
A word about sugar.  Simply put, consuming sugar can lock fat stores in and speed the loss of muscle.  Processed foods can have the same effect.  Even fruit consumed by itself can have that effect.  Milk is a sugar...so minimize dairy intake during a fat loss cycle.  No matter what, if you do have a sugar (which is not optimal when the goal is fat loss) be sure it is accompanied by a lean whole food protein (not a powder.)

Experiment with different mixes...1 week strict per "experiment"!

I.E. (these are the extremes and represent points in a whole spectrum!  They give you ideas of parts of the spectrum to explore)

The moderate protein type=
Protein-20%,
carbohydrates-65%,
fat-15%

High Protein type=
Protein-25%,
carbohydrates-45%,
fat-30%

High Carb type=
Protein-15%,
carbohydrates-75%,
fat-10%

Select the foods you will eat for each meal

i.e.
Meal 1
Oatmeal
Egg whites
Onion and mushroom
Flax oil

Meal 2
Whole grain Pita Bread
Turkey
Lettuce
spinach
tomato

Meal 3
Rice
Chicken
Green Beans

Meal 4
Quinoa
Beef
Peas, Carrots and celery, onions 

(Meal 5)
Pre work out protein/BCAA/EAA
During workout carbs (unless you are aiming for below 10% BF)
Post Work out protein/BCAA/EAA

Meal 6
Baked Sweet Potato
Turkey
Broccoli  

Then...Use fitday.com to plan meals to get what you need not just as a meal journal...it is free! Use fitday.com as a MEAL PLANNER..not just a journal.  To help you tweak your diet into different mixes! 

Go over each meal separately at first and get it to match what you want.  Over time design more meals that fit your target meal so you have more and more choices! The real secret is to create a new meal every few days that fits your meal plan.  After 2 months you have 20-30 meals to choose from and you can mix and match!

So you start with only a days worth...you eat the same thing for a week..believe me..you will learn how much you really need to lose fat!

Lets say you are 200 pounds and are needing to start with 2800 calories to lose.  If you ate that every day for a week you could tell pretty clearly what it would take to lose the fat you want!

Try to go easy on salts and avoid sugars, they sit under the skin right on the stomach!

Decrease breads and pastas replacing them with brown rice and yams, focus on getting fibrous veggies for carbs, like broccoli, green beans, greens etc. into every meal.

Lets look at what that would mean.
6 meals which includes pre and post work out nutrition
about 424 calories a meal

If you choose for the overall diet of say
25% protein
50% carbs and
25 % fat

It looks something like this but keeping an eye on protein...as we are in a deficit...not too low!
Calories - 2600

2600 calories
25% = 2600 x .25 = 650 calories from protein
50% = 2600 x .50 = 1300 calories from carbs
25% = 2600 x .25 = 650 calories from fat

Protein has 4 calories per gram
Carbs have 4 calories per gram
Fat has 9 calories per gram

650 calories protein divided by 4 = 163 grams protein
1300 calories carbs divided by 4 = 325 gram carbs
650 calories fat divided by 9 = 72 grams fat

Protein - 163 grams
Carbs - 325 grams
Fat - 72 grams

Divide that into each meal but the pre/post work out, since it will have no fat

P/PWO - calories = 440
Pre/during the-WO =
Protein 40g whey(<--30 min prior) 
and/or EAA-15g and BCAA-5g <--immediately pre
Carbs 40g <---during the workout

Directly Post-WO
Protein 20g whey and/or EAA-15g and BCAA-5g

5 Meals @ about 432+- calories each
Protein - 26g
Carbs - 52g
Fat - 14g

So use fitday.com free meal journal and do 1 meal at a time to figure out what you need. Bingo!

Here is enough info to do this WITHOUT using fitday!

The most effective meals are made up of:
A Lean Protein plus
A Starchy Carbohydrate plus
A Fibrous Carbohydrate
 
Made up of whole unprocessed foods. 
Eat until you are not hungry and then do it agin every 3 to 3 1/2 hours.
Minimize saturated fats
Avoid hydrogenated fats
Avoid sugars and processed foods
 
Want some samples?  OK . . .
 
Lean Proteins include:
Chicken Breast
Turkey Breast
Egg Whites
Tuna Fish
Shellfish
Most Fresh Fish Filets
Lean Beef
Lean Buffalo
 
Starchy Carbohydrates include:
 Potato
 Sweet Potato
 Brown Rice
 Oatmeal
 Whole Grains
 Quinoa
 Amaranth
Tomato
Peas
Corn
 
Fibrous Carbohydrates include:
 Broccoli
 Cauliflower
 Mushrooms
 Peppers
 Onions
 Asparagus
 Broccoli,
 green beans,  
Snow peas 
Artichoke,
bok choy,
brussels sprouts,
chili peppers,
jalapeño peppers,
leeks,
eggplant,
endive,
red cabbage,
kale, 
zucchini,
lemon grass
squash
baby carrots
beets
Lettuce
 
 Sample Supportive Meals
 Chicken Breast, Baked Potato, Broccoli
 A Piece of Fish, Brown Rice, a Green Salad
 Egg White Omelet with Spinach and Mushrooms, Oatmeal

#2 Training
train your whole body
Legs (squats, lunges, leg extensions, leg curls, leg press, stiff-leg deadlift)
Shoulders (military press, side laterals, rear lat raise, upright row, shrugs)
Chest (bench press, flyes, dips)
Back (pull-ups, rows, deadlifts, lat pull-downs)
Biceps (barbell curls, dumbbell curls, preacher curls, hammer curls)
Triceps (overhead tricept extension, skull crusher, pressdown, kickbacks)
Abs (Crunches, reverse crunches, hanging leg raises, captains chair leg raise, bicycle maneuver)

Calf (standing calf press, seated calf press)

See the bottom for links to various workout programs.


Always warm up 3-10 minutes as needed light cardio (to get the core temp of the body up) and also light moderately-higher rep sets to warm up major bodyparts you will be working.

Optimal set / rep ranges and days between:
For muscular Endurance the rep range is 12-25+ slow pace/30-90 second rests/ 1-3 sets / 1-2 days between
For muscle size the rep range is 9-12 slow- moderate pace/30-60 second rests / 3 -4 sets per / 4-7 days between
For Strength (vs. power) the rep range is 6-8 slow pace/2-3 minute rests/ 3-4 sets per / 4-7 days between
For power the rep range is 1-5 fast/explosive pace /3-5 minute rests/ 4-8 sets per / 2-3 days between
That has been heavily tested and it works...courtesy of the National Academy of Sports Medicine.

It is essential to vary intensity in your training every cycle to keep the gains going.

There are a lot of intensity principles that you can toy with to spice up your results a bit. Some discussion threads on varying intensity...

discussion threads on varying intensity...
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_87226/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#87226
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_93729/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#94039
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_98922/tm.htm#98922
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/Methods_of_progression/m_122355/tm.htm

Resources for how to do the exercises:
http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html
Http://www.coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/exercise1.htm
http://www.bsu.edu/webapps2/strengthlab/home.htm
http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/excercise.html
http://www.midwestbarbell.com/videos.htm

#3 Cardio
Lets get something straight.  When you do Cardio, the body has 2 sources of energy to choose from.  Glycogen/glucose and/or FAT.  When you do resistance training, the body basically has 1 sources of energy to draw from... Glycogen/glucose.

If you do your cardio (not the warm up...but the extensive) before you do resistance training and deplete the glucose before you even start lifting...what happens?  The body has to get more glucose...where?  It can make it from muscle!!!

If you do resistance training and then cardio...the resistance training depletes the glycogen before you start the cardio...soo what energy system will the cardio mostly use...FAT!

Now it is better if you think of cardio as a way to optimize the cardiorespiratory and other systems of the body than as a "fat burning" method.  You can burn far more fat in the 23 hours you are not doing cardio then you can when doing cardio.

One more thing...you are moderately glucose deficient on waking...so there is a VERY SLIGHT advantage to training upon waking if the goal is fat loss.

The body adapts very quickly to cardio, even faster than it does to lifting.  For this reason it is important to vary an aspect of your Cardio about every 2-3 weeks, or as needed to maintain the results you are looking for.

If you do the same things every day, you get less and less caloric expenditure from them.  Additionally, as you lose weight, the number of calories expended from an activity declines!
The solution?  Vary your training to keep your body from getting accustomed to it. 

The things to vary every 2-3 weeks or so - in this order of "importance":

The the intensity of your training...slower/low intensity, moderate speed and intensity, high speed and intensity, intervals
The type of exercise you do...bike, rowing, elliptical trainer, treadmill, walking, etc
The length of time you train...from 20 minutes, to 30 minutes, to 40 minutes, to 50 to an hour.
The frequency with which you train...3 days a week, to 4 days a week, to 5 days a week, to 2x day 3 days a week

Some notes about this...change your frequency only as a last resort!!! 

The more frequently you do cardio, the quicker the body adapts and the LESS you get from it!!!!!

Be sure to take 1 full week at least every 2-3 months doing NOTHING!!!  In addition to other benefits, this de-conditions the body so that when you come back your body is more responsive again.  When you come back, start your training at 30 minutes 4x week and moderate intensity with a new type of cardio.

Then increase the intensity (2-3 weeks), then try interval training (2-3 weeks), then switch the type of cardio and start the new type at moderate (2-3 weeks), then high (2-3 weeks), then intervals (2-3 weeks), then switch and repeat.  Then add 5 minutes and go 35 at moderate (2-3 weeks), then high (2-3 weeks), then intervals (2-3 weeks).

After 3 months...REST and come back and repeat the pattern.

IF after 1-2 weeks you are not seeing any loss of body fat weight, you may need more time.  If you still see nothing, you may need another day.

Read more about this here:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/Progressing_your_cardio_for_ongoing_results/m_167907/tm.htm

For HIIT progressions read this:
http://www.musclemedia.com/training/hiit.asp

PWO for stand-alone cardio to spare muscle:
Get 5g BCAA (1/4 teaspoon per 35 pounds) directly before and after cooldown ..or .1 gram of protein from whey per pound of bodyweight 30 minutes before and the same directly after cooldown.


#4 track your progress!
On the topic of Body fat measurement...THIS is how you will insure you are on track with whatever you want to accomplish!!!  The methods YOU can use to test your body fat yourself are unreliable on a one-time basis.  They are better used to track changes over time on an ongoing basis. 

Test every 1-3 weeks at the same time of day...and use the same scale to take your weight. 
Here is a calculator that allows you to use skinfold calipers (3 or 7 point test) or tape measure
http://www.linear-software.com/online.html

Here is the best price I have found to date for good cheap accurate calipers:
skinfold Calipers <--- link to place on amazon where it is cheapest

Once your diet and training are in place, measure your body composition and go a week following your plan.  Take circumference measurements of your muscles.

At the end of the week (and each week) check your body composition again - always at the same time of day with the same method and tools. 

It is more important to look at the raw caliper measuremnts themselves than at the calculations! 
Which ones went down, did any go up?

Here is a key for how to respond to what you find..

--If at first you are just gaining fat, then revamp your training and diet it is obviously not sufficient to create muscle gains and fat loss, also look at adjusting your caloric intake down 250.
--If you are gaining fat and muscle, stay where you are! or if it is too much fat, you can then revamp your diet or drop calories 250 or add a bit of cardio.
--If you are just gaining muscle go another week as is.
--If you gain muscle and lose fat but gain no weight (or lose weight), stay where you are or add 250 calories 
--If you are gaining muscle and losing fat...while gaining weight stay where you are, you are at an optimal balance, muscle will burn more fat.
--If you are just losing fat stay where you are, then revamp your training it is obviously not sufficient to create muscle gains!  Maybe add 250 calories.
--If at first you are just losing muscle, adjust your caloric intake up 500 calories.
--If you are losing fat and muscle, adjust your caloric intake up 500 calories.
--If you are neither gaining nor losing muscle or fat...you are at maintenance.  then revamp your training and diet it is obviously not sufficient to create muscle gains and fat loss,  maybe drop 250 calories.

Also take a weekly photo..but compare photos every three weeks (with the photo you took 3-weeks ago!)

Additionaly you should take weekly tape measurements:
Neck, Chest, Upper Arm, Forearm, Abs, Hips, Thigh, Calf

#5 the basics
Start a journal to keep all the informatin in and take notes!
Keep the resistance training under an hour
Do not over train
Don't miss a meal. 
Don't go low carb on us (until you absolutely know what you are doing) 
12-15 cups water minimum a day!!! (your weight x .55 in ounces)
Don't let your calories get behind your muscle gains.
Multivitamin to support growth!
8 hours sleep a night
Avoid artificial additives (flavorings, coloring, preservatives) in foods
Cut out processed foods
get pre and post work out nutrition:

PWO notes for those cutting (not in the later stages!):
You need to be sure to account for these extra calories! 
Otherwise this could amount to undesired weight! 

30 min. before exercise
0.2 g/lb whey

Directly before exercise
5 g BCAAs (1/4 teaspoon per 35 pounds bodyweight) or 15 g EAAs (When you use EAAs you can leave the pre-exercise whey out)

During workout
0.2g/lb carbs. You consume this spread over the entire exercise period. (for serious low fat cutting, minimize this or leave it out)

Immediately following exercise
5 g BCAAs (1/4 teaspoon per 35 pounds bodyweight) or 15 g EAAs

(When you can not use BCAAs/Essential Amino Acids, take 0.2 g/lb whey 30 min. pre workout, and 0.1 g/lb whey following. During exercise you use the same amount of carbs.) 

All carb sugar is not equal.  Table sugar does not replenish glucose in muscle as would a banana.

The ideal thing to sip post workout would contain a 1:1 glucose(dextrose):fructose mixture.

Most of the sugars in Juice are sucrose...

With Orange juice the total sugars of 20 g per cup of 25 G total carbs S:F:G =10:5:5
With Orange fruit the total sugars of 17 g per 25 grams of total carbs S:F:G = 8.5:4.5:4
With Banana the total sugars of 13g to 25 g total carbs S:F:G = 2:5.5:5.5

For comparison...The orange juice would deposit 10 grams (the sucrose) either to immediate energy use or to easy fat storage, the orange 8.5 grams and the banana 2 grams. The F and G go to replenish muscle and liver glycogen stores.  Which the banana does more efficiently.

See how not all fruits are created equal?
Can you use the juice?  Yes.  Is it ideal?  Depends on your body's use of energy. But if you do, dilute it 50% so sipping gives you more water...that way it will pass through digestion faster!

Let me give you a link where you can look things up :
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

Remember. ideally you want something with a 1:1 ratio of Glucose (dextrose):fructose.

Another Example of 1 large Apple:
Apple is 1:2.4  / Glucose (dextrose):fructose/
Which is not ideal but if it is what you have, that is fine...fructose reloads the liver, glucose reloads muscle...excess fructose not stored or burned goes to fat.
Carbohydrate,  29.28 g
Sucrose  g 4.39 (This is low which is nice)
Glucose (dextrose)  g 5.15
Fructose  g 12.51


Diet may be your biggest challenge.  You have to get the caloric level sufficient so that you are losing fat but maintaining/gaining muscle.  You should expect to lose .5 to 2 pounds a week FAT and maybe gain .3-.5 pounds a week muscle.

Any questions…after you do your homework…post your goal, caloric needs, diet, and training in a new thread and we can comment to get you in the groove!

Other topics of interest..

Meal Replacement Powders of choice 
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/MRP/m_109098/tm.htm

3 day per week training
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=04-073-training

HST (Hypertrophy Specific Training)
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html

S.A.I.S. (Specific Adaption to Imposed Stress) Training
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/jeff1.htm

Pre and Post work out Anabolic nutrition
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/PWO_Shakes/m_97786/tm.htm
or this one
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/post_workout-whole_foods_or_supplements/m_111290/tm.htm

8-week HIIT Cardio Progression
http://www.musclemedia.com/training/hiit.asp
<message edited by danmirage on Sunday, May 27, 2007 11:14 AM>
iNatalia

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RE: For Losing Fat - Tuesday, March 21, 2006 7:55 AM ( #2 )
Danmirage, thatnks. Very helpful info!
[image]http://inatalia.com/fitness/IMG_5518.JPG[/image]
fatornotfat

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RE: For Losing Fat - Friday, May 12, 2006 7:29 PM ( #3 )
danmirage, you kick ass! I've looked MONTHS for an article like this!
danmirage

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RE: For Losing Fat - Friday, May 12, 2006 7:31 PM ( #4 )

I remember when I was just going insane looking for how it all worked...
danmirage

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RE: For Losing Fat - Tuesday, June 13, 2006 10:14 PM ( #5 )
These are some notes from answering questions people asked me...I will amend the main post with more clear info later :)


I have no idea what comprises of essential amino acids, etc....what are you referring to when you say that we should be taking these before and after the workout?

They are found in pure whey...or you can use just the BCAAs such as this...
BCAA Powder


When you say we should be having carbs during our workout...how does one do this?

Not while cutting.



what's the difference between STRENGTH/MUSCLE SIZE?

That confuses many people.

Strength is the ability to move maximal weights and is not necessarily tied to muscle size.
Muscle size is increasing the size and density of the muscle and not necessarily tied to strength.

So 5x5 is more a power and strength style workout.

If your diet is appropriate, then you will get some muscle increases from power and strength type training...however gains in size are likely to be more significant if you follow muscle hypertrophy specific training..that is for muscle size.


Which is more worth focusing on for my personal goal?

I will tell you some things you won't hear many places...since you want to lose fat...

First your lifting (not counting warm up and post w/o stretching) should not exceed 45 minutes if you can avoid it...and total cardio + lifting time should not exceed a combined time of 75 minutes!

Second, some cardio should happen right after lifting with (NO food, protein, or carb intake until after) to allow for the body to take advantage of the glycogen depletion.

Third, your workout needs to challenge muscle in a way you are not accustomed to with a shift in training every week! 

Fourth, your training needs to deplete glycogen!  Try rotating training in supersets, circuits, or add a drop set.  Try 15-20 reps to failure...

Fifth, pure whey or BCAA before lifting and after the cardio..if you do stand alone cardio then take it before and after.

Nearly Last...the food you take in..I know you read the fat loss thread...so you read what foods you must not to eat to insure continuous fat loss, how often you must eat to keep the muscle fed and the metabolism burning optimally, what 3 foods you must eat every meal...

One more thing it does not mention...see, you may have overdone cardio too...where do you go from 60 minutes to add intensity...I will tell you...you stop doing it for a week.

The first week just do a new style of lifting.  The second week start with 6 minutes of post workout cardio and add 2 minutes every workout day...when you switch the workout again start at 10 minutes and add 2 minutes every workout day...and also add a 12 minute off day cardio, preferably immediately on waking before you eat.

Post workout cardio is at a moderate intensity!  Not high.

Your cut should last no more than 6 weeks if you don't want to lose muscle severely.

Final note...as you progress, start to shift the fat content lower into the 10-15% area and the carbs down to 40%- area and protein up into the 35-45+%

I will warn you..this will INCREASE your metabolism and likely lower your calories...it may also slow muscle gains a little as the storage hormone will not be dominant..the fat burning hormone will be dominant.  SO you don't want to maintain this for long periods of time (over 4 weeks) otherwise...you risk the body doing some revenge actions!

This info assumes you have optimized metabolism (adding muscle, improving digestion, increasing resting metabolic rate through adaptations), mastered eating appropriately, and understand how to create a reasonable training routine, varying it weekly.

Now go tear it up!!!
<message edited by danmirage on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 10:16 AM>
danmirage

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RE: For Losing Fat - Tuesday, June 20, 2006 1:58 PM ( #6 )

Isn't Whey better???

No.  They all serve different roles.
 
Remember, These recommendations are based on amounts found in clinical trials that gave "Best Results" across the board.
 
Why do we say these things, because science says that is what gives the results we are looking for.
 
Whey is nearly a food. It has to be processed/digested.  As a food, it has fats, sugars, and varying levels of amino acids in it.  These release into the blood in varying amounts at varying speeds.
 
BCAAs are pure amino acids, they are the ones the body wants after you train, and they are the specific amino acids the body wants when it starts to break down muscle.  These pure amino acids move right into the blood and are available for about 45 minutes...sparing muscle.  Whey does not quite do the same or contain the same amounts.  Whey would be fine if it was all you had, as it DOES supply the BCAAs, overlooking the issues of amount and availability.
 
The recommendations you read originally were for optimal anabolic effect.  You have to determine for yourself how much of that you want to do.  Experiment.
danmirage

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RE: For Losing Fat - Tuesday, June 20, 2006 2:55 PM ( #7 )
I eat a supportive meal every 3 hours.  My meals supply sufficient protien, occasionally I have an MRP.
 
I take 5 grams of BCAA pre and post training.
danmirage

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RE: For Losing Fat - Tuesday, June 20, 2006 7:18 PM ( #8 )
BCAA Powder <----link to the one I take
 

What's the reason you chose BCAA's over EAA's

BCAAs are the ones the body wants after you train, and they are the specific amino acids the body wants when it starts to break down muscle.
 

Whey or lean protein whole food

I eat meals because they are more complete nutritionally..which is how the body functions best for growth adn for burning.
 
Powder is pre-diggested and so has very little effect on the metabolism.  Food requires work to process and has a dramatic effect on the metabolism.
 

do you include this 10 grams as 10 grams of protein for your daily protein intake or more? (I.e. if you intake 240 grams from whole food protein do you add 10 grams from the BCAA's for a total of 250 grams a day or do you add more from the BCAA's???)

 
Again, you are trying to count.  If I eat that 10 grams of protein...it is 10 grams of protein (though it is incomplete.)   I track my diet very carefully at times and everything that goes into my mouth goes into the program.
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RE: For Losing Fat - Tuesday, June 20, 2006 10:20 PM ( #9 )

Why not take capsules/tablets instead of powder???

Cost and absorption.  Also I dislike capsules as many have msg in them.  You should take what you like and is convenient for you.  I use a spoon and put it in my mouth..I rinse down with water.
 

You take 5 grams before and 5 grams after... And 30-60mins later you eat a meal with how much protein???

A complete Supportive meal as described above.  Nutrient content of my meals depends on the particular phase of my training.
 

What do you eat or drink during your workout and cardio???

Water.
 

Why don't you take 5 grams during the workout?

I don't overtrain.  My training is brief and intense.
 

Why do you only take 5 grams of BCAA's before & after

The research.  My experience.
 

Isn't 5 grams of protein pre/post=10g almost negligible? Why not take more? (~40g like Whey?)

The idea of more being better is a silly way to look at it.  The body takes only what it needs.  That is 1250 Milligrams of 2 amino acids and 2500 milligrams of another...you say negligible.  Based upon what findings?  Again, look to the research.


What do you think of this BCAA Powder

I will neither use nor recommend artificially colored, artificially flavored, additive and sucralose laden supplements.
 

(Are the ingredients [artificial etc.] counterproductive to fat loss?)

There is research to suggest that they are not beneficial.
 
L-glutamine is abundant in the body, however it has shown some value in sparing muscle for those who overtrain or are in a caloric deficit. 
 

Would there be any similarity if I ate 5g egg whites pre(30-60min prior)/post workout=10g or does this 10g only apply to BCAA's??? (How many grams from egg whites would equal similarity?)

 
I recommend you learn to do the math on this type of question so you can always satisfy your curiosity.
 
Cheers!
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RE: For Losing Fat - Wednesday, June 21, 2006 12:36 AM ( #10 )

What does brief stand for??? 45 min???

Sometimes even less.
 

I'm planning on following this... What would you recommend I take in grams of BCAA's (I'm 250lbs and my LBM is 190-200lbs)? (5gs pre and post as you take it or other???)

Do you recommend I only take it before and after or also during considering I will workout for 45 min and do cardio for 30 min??? (75min as you recommended) [Only water for cardio]

 
The key is proper nourishment on an ongoing basis and the BCAA is simply insurance against tapping muscle, especially if you are in a deficit.  So 5 G before and after training is fine...
 
The added benefit after is it apears to sppeed a return to an anabolic state.
 

Do you recommend I take it with whey (.2/lb before and then .1/lb after as you recommended) or will the effects be similar just with the BCAA as you take them??? And then a nutritional meal 30-60 min later!

 
The .1g/lb after is in lieu of BCAAs.
If you are getting a meal 45-90 minutes pre workout then you should be fine without the .2g...unless you are in a severe deficit and very low carb.
 

Are tomatoes starchy carbs?

In effect, we treat them as if they are.
 
Here is your source for the complete nutrient content of most any food:
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
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RE: For Losing Fat - Wednesday, June 21, 2006 1:13 AM ( #11 )
There is a small benefit to doing this ...if it is within 30 minutes if waking... then just the BCAAs...
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RE: For Losing Fat - Monday, July 03, 2006 8:06 AM ( #12 )
Note that  a complex fibrous/starchy carbohydrate (tomato) is a starch not a fiber fr your purposes and so I recommend celery sticks green beans or red peppers.
 
If you are cutting...a simple carbohydrate/sugar (apple or orange) is not optimal.
 

When should I take the BCAA's???...

Immediatly before  resistance and immediatly after cardio.

Should I go along with the .035g/lb

I would, yes...1/4 teaspoon per 35 pounds....per serving
 

how about that big ~1hr 15-30min gap in-between... BCAA's might stay in the bloodstream for ~45min

The point of doing the cardio after the lifting is to burn FAT.  45 minutes covers the lifting period.  After which you should be glycogen depleted.  The cardio will activate the aerobic energy system and being glycogen depleted, you should be burning mostly fat.  If you eat/take anything before this cardio then it will use it for energy if it can.  That last 30 minutes should be fat burning time.
 

How bad is the taste of the NOW - BCAA's

There is almost no taste..but there is a slight bitter taste when the water gets mixed in there.  Nothing very noticeable.  Sometimes I accidentally swish it around in my mouth and get the BCAAs all over my gums...I still don't notice the taste...i just take another drink and rinse em down.
 

Do you recommend any other BCAA powder

Optimum Nutrition BCAA
I use these as well.  They are the same as the NOW.
You could supplement with 5G glutamine  after your trianing and 2G befor bed...but evidence for the value of this is weak at best.
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RE: For Losing Fat - Monday, July 03, 2006 10:14 AM ( #13 )
You can use tomato as part of salads IF you are eating starches...
 

1) What are your thoughts on at least eating a fruit (simple carbohydrate/sugar) after cardio along with the BCAA’s… Do the BCAA’s work fine by itself or would the BCAA’s along with a fruit be more beneficial… If so, which fruit?

For some, this is good for glycogen replenishment.  The fruit should contain a 1:1 fructose:glucose(dextrose) ratio to replenish liver and muscle. you can look things up here:
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
 

FAST-DIGESTING CARBS...

Mostly yes.  But, it is a generalization, not covering the whole chemical response here...
 

Do the BCAA’s work fine by itself or would the BCAA’s along with a fruit be more beneficial

Yes, when not cutting this is fine.  The carbs are actually very important to anticatabolic activity. BCAA and post carbs are synergistic. As I said, look em up: Banana, blueberry....
 
When cutting the post carbs should be minimal.  When cutting you do not want the insulin spike.
 

What are the cons of squeezing a lemon into a salad for ...

that is negligeble.  .14 G of sugar....0.5g carbs...
 

When saying immediately before resistance… Do you mean before warming up (doing low intensity cardio on a treadmill [2.7-3.5mph, 0% incline] for 5-10min) OR before actual resistance training???

After the warm up. immediately before resistance.
 

1) Say I do take in another 5g of BCAA’s about 10min before cardio… 5g would come out to 20kcal… Which can easily be burned off within several minutes of doing cardio if the BCAA’s are used up as energy… Wouldn’t this be beneficial to insure no muscle wasting but rather fat wasting during cardio… Or is it just best to stick with pre & post BCAA ingestion (@.035g/lb... Total=.07g/lb)???

If you point your body in the direction of protein as an energy source...when you want to be using fat...anyway...it is really a very fine point.


2) My glycogen storage is also depleted before doing resistance training (as it’s done in fasted state)??? So then, why aren’t the BCAA’s which are taken immediately before working out used up as energy???

Your glycogen is not depleted when you exercise AM...it is simply not optimal.  BCAAs are there in case, so if your body goes after protein...they are there.
 
Ideally, I would keep the lifting to a 20-30 minutes in this AM state if your goal is to preserve muscle..in fact if the goal is to preserve muscle...I would not work out in the am in this manner.  If the only concern is fat loss...then no problem.


I see that the Amino Acid Profiles are the same between the two… Are the tastes the same between the two or is the NOW – Branched Chain Amino Acid Powder better/worse than the latter?

I would say - the same.
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RE: For Losing Fat - Monday, July 03, 2006 1:00 PM ( #14 )
I may cut for 4 weeks.  Depends on the situation.  I had an appearance and had only 3 weeks.  If I were competing I would cut for much longer...and maybe lose some muscle. 
 
While I am looking to gain muscle, I just go until I reach my target, however long that takes, then I switch my diet and training to drop fat.  I stay in a caloric surplus with a tighter diet at first and after 4 weeks of manipulations I may go into a strict cut for 4 weeks.  Generally, I don't lose much weight as I still gain muscle...but I drop the fat.
 
If it was for a contest, I would do it more scientifically...time dependant on the weight I needed to reach.
 
As for simple sugars...The amount of simple carbs tolerated is really dependant on individual oxidative rates.  I do not tolerate simple carbs well so I don't use them...except when bulking and even then only a very small amount.
 
I will use any fruit in season that is close to 1:1.
 
I have clients that tolerate them very well and so .2 grams per pound up to .4 grams per pound.
 

Should I not use them at all and just stick with the BCAA's along with a nutritious meal (containing complex starchy and fibrous carbs) 30-45+min later while cutting?...

Since I do not know your situation/chemistry etc..I am going to say...you can do without them and will probably cut more clean...however if you feel you are really carb depleted and not feeling well...then get some post WO carbs....experiment.
 

What do you recommend I change in this routine after I finish cutting & when I start bulking? (Adding in carbs before or during the workout?... What kind & how many carbs?... etc.?)

 
My recommendations are in the "gaining mass" and "losing fat" links I gave out.  So much of the specifics is based upon individual chemistry.  Without an assessment..I have to tell you to experiment and learn what works for you.  Sounds crazy but thats bio-individuality!
 
Cheers!
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RE: For Losing Fat - Monday, July 03, 2006 2:26 PM ( #15 )
You bet!
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RE: For Losing Fat - Monday, July 10, 2006 11:07 PM ( #16 )
Thanks for a great thread -- the most complete cutting guide I've been able to find on the web.  For some background, I'm 22 yo, 5'7'', ~153 lb, body fat probably ~12-13% (waiting for my calipers to arrive), quite strong for my size.  I'm happy with the amount of muscle I've added over the past year with solid training and the best bulking diet I was able to manage at college. Now I'm looking to spend about 4 weeks cutting, aiming for 5-7 lbs of mostly fat and lower BF%.  Adding any muscle would be a nice bonus. I'm following the dieting guide quite well, making sure to eat every few hours and hit the core three meal requirements. About 5 days in. I'm sticking to the cleanest foods possible (sweet potatos, brown rice, whole wheat bread; leanest meats; dark leafy greens; flax and fish; rarely need sauces/dressings/flavorings) and I've been able to fight off cravings. A few questions...

1) What are your thoughts on combining this fat loss guide with a fat loss supplement? I've been taking two daily servings of 4 pills of Anadrox Pump-n-Burn. I understand that the body is certainly capable of burning fat on its own through a combination of diet, training, and exercise, but is the supplement helping out the cause? I like the pump I get from it, but I don't know if it's responsible for any of the fat loss.

2) What happens if I miss a meal and go 5-6 hours without food? Obviously I try to avoid it and eat as soon as humanly possible after. But if things don't go according to plan should I try and reallocate the lost calories throughout the remainder of the day's meals, or just resume with the rest of the schedule?

3) I don't start full-time work for another month, so I tend to sleep in until noon or later some days (i.e. 13 hours awake, 10 asleep). Should I account for this and adjust my caloric needs down? What about mixing up a protein shake and maybe a little fisk or flax oil and pounding it in the middle of sleep if I wake up to take a leak?

4) How close is too close to bedtime for the final 400-500 calories meal of the day?
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RE: For Losing Fat - Tuesday, July 11, 2006 1:22 AM ( #17 )

I like the pump I get from it, but I don't know if it's responsible for any of the fat loss.

What do you expect from 3 cups of coffee worth of caffeine and vasocontrictor?  Note that Nitric Oxide is a Vasodilator!!! So the actions are a bit crossed!!!


What happens if I miss a meal and go 5-6 hours without food?

You won't suddenly get fat...but your metabolism may slow, your body may start to break down muscle for energy, it may start to produce hormones that favor fat storage...slowing your overall progress.  So always have a meal replacement handy "in Case."


But if things don't go according to plan should I try and reallocate the lost calories throughout the remainder of the day's meals, or just resume with the rest of the schedule?  How close is too close to bedtime for the final 400-500 calories meal of the day?

Just try to get a meal every 3 to 3 1/2 hours that you are awake.  Do your best..nobody is perfect...just try to do better the next day.

Even 20 minutes before bed is fine if it does not disrupt your sleep.

10 hours is a long time to be in a fast, but if you get a meal when you wake up, you will be ok.  When you sleep, there are processes that go on that benefit your cutting.


What are your thoughts on combining this fat loss guide with a fat loss supplement?

The fact is, there is no magic supplement that will burn fat.  There will be lots of arguments to this but there is an industry of "Fat Burners" that are not effective approaches for losing fat.  My goal is to give a primer for starting on-going fat loss. 

If I gave any supplement suggestions, then people would say, "OH, thats the secret." 

I want to tell people what works.  What will work for even an an extended fat loss program...

However, this is not the end-all of fat loss strategies...I do have more intense strategies I use with clients.  In certain circumstances, after 4-8 weeks of optimizing the metabolism and eating right...I might mention certain things to a client THAT ARE NOT NECESSARY but can give a TINY edge in an appropriate fat loss approach.

That is what you are looking at with these "Special Formulas"...a TINY extra edge.
 
Assuming the goal is weight loss...or more accurately fat loss...we have to look at what fat loss is. 
 
Fat loss is basically a three-step process:  You have to release it from a fat cell, you have to transport it to a muscle cell, then it has to be burned in the mitochondria of the muscle.  That said, anything you consider when thinking about fat loss has to support these three things.
 
Caloric deprivation causes the body to shift it's chemical environment to one that hoards and spares fat, while at the same time breaking down muscle.  Any plan that increases calorie output while depriving the body of vital nutrients risks placing the body in a state where it will not release fat.  Other challenges that can effect fat release are meal frequency and food choices.
 
The heart, lungs and other systems of the body are responsible for transporting nutrients throughout the body.  A moderate amount of cardiovascular exercise helps to optimize the transport systems in the body, including those responsible for transporting fat. 
 
Muscle is the place in the body where fat is burned.  Any plan that causes muscle to be lost will also cripple the fat burning mechanism in the body.  You have heard the saying "Use it or lose it?"  Well, this is the case with muscle.  If your weight loss program does not have some concern for preserving muscle, then some of that weight loss will be muscle.
 
Additionally, If you are relying on a stimulant (caffeine, Synephrine, etc) to increase your "energy" or "activity," you should know that this is an artificial stimulation of the adrenal and nervous system (similar to an adrenalin rush or to taking speed) and not an improvement in the cardiorespiratory systems.  In fact, one of the side effects of this is that the body, detecting that these systems are not really needed during times of artificial stimulation, will reduce adrenal function.  This can cause a feeling of low energy when the stimulants are discontinued, often leading to a "dependence" (addiction) on the stimulants for energy!
 
There is much to be said in commenting on a supplement loaded with stimulants or containing aspirin-like substances, as well as perhaps diuretics that can give the appearance of fast weight loss.
 
Anything that acts as a stimulant will likely increase activity and caloric expenditure.  However, without supportive nutrition and a focus on preserving muscle, the calories can and are likely to come from muscle and some fat stores.  Loss of muscle will hinder the body's ability to burn fat, as muscle is the site in the body where fat is burned.  This can have a crippling effect on the metabolism, leading to short-term weight loss followed by fat and weight gain.
 
These stimulants have another effect: they reduce the appetite.
 
Reducing calories while increasing calorie expenditure will likely cause accelerated loss of muscle and undesirable adaptations in the metabolism for most people, and will not be a long-term solution for those desiring fat loss and positive physique change.  Additionally, eating less will lead to a misleading loss of weight due to a loss of water.
 
Furthermore, the cause of the situation that most people are desiring to alleviate is not addressed.  Whatever life habits put a person in the situation that made them want to lose weight and get lean have not been changed or addressed, so the issue is likely to keep coming back.  If, in the process, you lose muscle and slow the metabolism...then the weight that comes back ofter you stop taking any miracle fat loss pill is likely to be mostly fat and water.
 
There is no pill or supplement that will burn, melt, chisel or otherwise cause fat to disappear!
 
So, I chose to educate people in a viable and effective approach for achieving positive physical change.
 
Lastly...looking at what is in Androx...I have to ask...do you even know what you are taking?  I know the answer is probably no.  Mostly they tossed a bunch of top selling (not meaning effective, just well marketed) and good sounding substances together in a manner so you don't not know what the heck you are getting...they also added cute and interesting names.
 
For instance Banaba Leaf, which has actions in lowering blood sugar, has been suggested for treatment for diabetics...so you are taking something that lowers blood sugar while you train...and also stimulants which might increase your energy expenditure in an anaerobic environment.  The energy source for anaerobic movement is glucose...either transported from the liver or muscle stores OR, when they become unavailable, from amino acids converted to glucose derived by breaking down muscle!
 
I could go into telling what Androx ingredients do item by item, but since they don't even give the amounts...I could simply point out that according to Dr Ignarro, who was awarded the Nobel Prize for his work on NO production, L-Arganine should be present in 4-6 grams...and the whole "Pump" section only has 1.9 grams...you see my point?  Lots of hoopla to disguise stimulants.
 
Vitamin C - 60mg 100% 
Niacin - 20mg 100%
Vitamin B6 - 5mg
(as pyridoxine HCL) 250%
Folate - 200mcg
(as Metafolin™ L-methylfolate) 50%
Vitamin B12 - 250mcg
(as cyanocobalamin) 4,167%
Zinc - 2.5mg
(as zinc citrate) 17%
Copper - 1mg
(as copper gluconate) 50%
Manganese - 1mg
(as manganese sulfate) 50%
Chromium - 50mcg
(as ChromeMate® chromium polynicotinate) 42% 

VasoThermic Pump Inducing Fat Burning Activators: - 2638mg 
  
The Pump - NitroFolin™ - 1941mg †
Nitric Oxide & Cellular Respiration Activators:
L-Arginine HCI, Citrulline Malate, L-Tyrosine, Vanadyl Sulfate (providing 2.5mg vanadium), Choline dihydrogen citrate, Banaba leaf extract (Lagerstroemia speciosa)[1% corosolic acid), N-Acetylcysteine, Taurine, NADH 

The Burn - Thermo Z7™ - 698mg †
Norepinephrine, Beta Agonist & Glycerol-3-Phosphate Dehydrogenase Activators:
Advantra Z (supplying: Citrus Aurantium extract (10% Synephrine alkaloids), 7-KETO® (3-Acetyl-7-oxo dehydroepiandrosterone), DL-Phenylalanine, Kelp, Guggulsterones E and Z

Purine Nucleoside & Phosphodiesterase Inhibitors:
Green tea and guarana seed extracts (providing 45mg EGCG and 200mg caffeine, theophylline & theobromine)

Cycloxygenase Inhibitors:
IsoOxygene™ hops extract (strobile), Turmeric extract (rhizome)

Beta Receptor Site Upregulating Factors:
Quercetin, Hesperidin Complex 

Bioperine® Black Pepper Extract - 2mg
 
Ingredients: Gelatin, microcrystalline cellulose, magnesium stearate, silica, titanium dioxide, FD&C red#3, FD&C yellow #5, and FD&C blue#1. 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

A note on synephrine  - You might feel warm after taking synephrine..that is the constriction of the blood vessels. Constricted blood vessels equals restricted blood flow, and that's the complete opposite of what you want if you're looking to optimize fat burning, yet it may cause a sensation of heat.
 
Then there is humor in the "abundant research" on the effectiveness of this (ex-nasal spray ingredient..remember neo-synephrine?)...it was found to effectively kill mosquitoes and...



Park JH, Keeley LL. The effect of biogenic amines and their analogs on carbohydrate metabolism in the fat body of Blaberus discoidalis. Gen Comp Endocrinol 1998 Apr;110(1):88-95
 
Does this study prove that synephrine will burn fat in your body? Only if you fall into the species categorized as Blaberus discoidalis. Allow me translate Blaberus discoidalis into its more recognizable term. ****roach!


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RE: For Losing Fat - Thursday, July 27, 2006 9:34 PM ( #18 )
Why not take creatine it has been shown to be the number 1 supplement with aiding in muscle growth / recovery with no negative effects, so why not take it?
 
or even NO or fat burners?
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RE: For Losing Fat - Thursday, July 27, 2006 9:49 PM ( #19 )

Why not take creatine 

First, my goal is to give people the basics of what works.  You don't need anything to get results.

If you are trying to lose fat..you will really need to track your progress and creatine can throw off your observations.

Creatine is useful in assisting in training intensity and is certainly useful.


or even NO

When you say NO, you really mean L-arganine and a host of antioxidants that aid in increased circulation and slow cell oxidation.  Most supplements that claim to be NO are actually loaded with stimulants.


or even fat burners


The fact is, there is no magic supplement that will burn fat.  There will be lots of arguments to this but there is an industry of "Fat Burners" that are not effective approaches for losing fat.  My goal is to give a primer for starting on-going fat loss. 

If I gave any supplement suggestions, then people would say, "OH, thats the secret." 

I want to tell people what works.  What will work for even an an extended fat loss program...

However, this is not the end-all of fat loss strategies...I do have more intense strategies I use with clients.  In certain circumstances, after 4-8 weeks of optimizing the metabolism and eating right...I might mention certain things to a client THAT ARE NOT NECESSARY but can give a TINY edge in an appropriate fat loss approach.

That is what you are looking at with these "Special Formulas"...a TINY extra edge.
 
Assuming the goal is weight loss...or more accurately fat loss...we have to look at what fat loss is.  
 

Fat loss is basically a three-step process:  You have to release it from a fat cell, you have to transport it to a muscle cell, then it has to be burned in the mitochondria of the muscle.  That said, anything you consider when thinking about fat loss has to support these three things.


Caloric deprivation causes the body to shift it's chemical environment to one that hoards and spares fat, while at the same time breaking down muscle.  Any plan that increases calorie output while depriving the body of vital nutrients risks placing the body in a state where it will not release fat.  Other challenges that can effect fat release are meal frequency and food choices.


The heart, lungs and other systems of the body are responsible for transporting nutrients throughout the body.  A moderate amount of cardiovascular exercise helps to optimize the transport systems in the body, including those responsible for transporting fat. 


Muscle is the place in the body where fat is burned.  Any plan that causes muscle to be lost will also cripple the fat burning mechanism in the body.  You have heard the saying "Use it or lose it?"  Well, this is the case with muscle.  If your weight loss program does not have some concern for preserving muscle, then some of that weight loss will be muscle.


Additionally, If you are relying on a stimulant (caffeine, Synephrine, etc) to increase your "energy" or "activity," you should know that this is an artificial stimulation of the adrenal and nervous system (similar to an adrenalin rush or to taking speed) and not an improvement in the cardiorespiratory systems.  In fact, one of the side effects of this is that the body, detecting that these systems are not really needed during times of artificial stimulation, will reduce adrenal function.  This can cause a feeling of low energy when the stimulants are discontinued, often leading to a "dependence" (addiction) on the stimulants for energy!


There is much to be said in commenting on a supplement loaded with stimulants or containing aspirin-like substances, as well as perhaps diuretics that can give the appearance of fast weight loss.


Anything that acts as a stimulant will likely increase activity and caloric expenditure.  However, without supportive nutrition and a focus on preserving muscle, the calories can and are likely to come from muscle and some fat stores.  Loss of muscle will hinder the body's ability to burn fat, as muscle is the site in the body where fat is burned.  This can have a crippling effect on the metabolism, leading to short-term weight loss followed by fat and weight gain.


These stimulants have another effect: they reduce the appetite.


Reducing calories while increasing calorie expenditure will likely cause accelerated loss of muscle and undesirable adaptations in the metabolism for most people, and will not be a long-term solution for those desiring fat loss and positive physique change.  Additionally, eating less will lead to a misleading loss of weight due to a loss of water.


Furthermore, the cause of the situation that most people are desiring to alleviate is not addressed.  Whatever life habits put a person in the situation that made them want to lose weight and get lean have not been changed or addressed, so the issue is likely to keep coming back.  If, in the process, you lose muscle and slow the metabolism...then the weight that comes back ofter you stop taking any miracle fat loss pill is likely to be mostly fat and water.


There is no pill or supplement that will burn, melt, chisel or otherwise cause fat to disappear!


So, I chose to educate people in a viable and effective approach for achieving positive physical change.
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RE: For Losing Fat - Thursday, July 27, 2006 11:33 PM ( #20 )
Good god i love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
you couldnt have put that into any better perspective for me, like holy ****.
 
To be honest i did take Ephedrine and caffeine for about 3 months and i started trying to lose weight a month before that and over those 4 months i went from 205 to 170 (im 6'1 btw) ....and that was just eating relitvely good (wheats,tuna,chicken, egg whites etc.) and eating 5-6 meals a day,  and the only time i took the EC was in the morning before i did cardio.
 
I dont know i guess i got this impression that taking supplements speeds everything up, but in a sense supplements will only give you the true upper hand if you have all the basics right (calorie intake etc.)
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RE: For Losing Fat - Friday, July 28, 2006 7:40 AM ( #21 )
YOU GOT IT!
 

To be honest i did take Ephedrine and caffeine for about 3 months and i started trying to lose weight a month before that and over those 4 months i went from 205 to 170 (im 6'1 btw) ....and that was just eating relitvely good (wheats,tuna,chicken, egg whites etc.) and eating 5-6 meals a day,  and the only time i took the EC was in the morning before i did cardio.

 
You see, you actually got everything else in place and THAT is what really worked.
 
So now what is your goal?  You dropped 35 pounds in 4 months!
Creation

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RE: For Losing Fat - Friday, July 28, 2006 9:07 AM ( #22 )
Thats where im stuck like i thought i was still a lil chubby but i just came up north to see family and ive got nothing but compliments on how skinny ive gotten lol?  for overall looks i want to be cut and build some mass so does that mean start eating 200-500 calories over my TDEE now, and just stick with the BCAA's//Whey and possibly a lil creatine for a lil kick (i go to college in a month)
 
and for split i was thinking this
 
mon=chest/triceps/abs.....cardio afterwards
tuesday=back/biceps/forearm....cardio afterwards
wed=shoulders/legs/traps
thurs= rest
friday=Cardio
Repeat.
 
and do 8-10 reps for all muscle groups except calves and abs.
 
and around 8-12 sets per muscle group depending on which muscle. like ill do 4x 8-10 for chest and back and 3x 8-10 for triceps and biceps.
 
what do you think?
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RE: For Losing Fat - Friday, July 28, 2006 10:08 AM ( #23 )
Try training 2x a week.
Let muscle growth burn off the fat.
Focus on muscle growth.
 
Eat at maintenance or just above...gaining 1/2 to 2 pounds of muscle a week.
 
mon=chest/triceps/shoulders/traps/abs.
tuesday=legs/back/biceps/forearm
wed=HIIT cardio
thurs= chest/triceps/shoulders/traps/abs
friday=legs/back/biceps/forearm
Saturday=HIIT cardio
Sunday Rest
 
Start with
1st training pass warm up - sets in 4-9 rep range 6 sets per muscle - cool down
2nd pass  warm up - sets in 12-15 rep range 4 sets per muscle with one extra set in the 20-30 rep range per muscle - cool down
 
Next week choose different movements
example incline week 1, decline week 2, flat week 3...etc
 
You could make it a A/B/C 3-day split if that works better.
Creatine-yes, 6 meals a day-yes, BCAAs-yes
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RE: For Losing Fat - Friday, July 28, 2006 11:50 AM ( #24 )

Start with
1st training pass warm up - sets in 4-9 rep range 6 sets per muscle - cool down
2nd pass  warm up - sets in 12-15 rep range 4 sets per muscle with one extra set in the 20-30 rep range per muscle - cool down

 
could you clarify this a little bit better by any chance?
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RE: For Losing Fat - Friday, July 28, 2006 12:02 PM ( #25 )
Pass #1
mon=chest/triceps/shoulders/traps/abs.
tuesday=legs/back/biceps/forearm
wed=HIIT cardio
 
Pass #2
thurs= chest/triceps/shoulders/traps/abs
friday=legs/back/biceps/forearm
Saturday=HIIT cardio
Sunday Rest
 
does that clear it up?
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RE: For Losing Fat - Friday, July 28, 2006 12:46 PM ( #26 )
What through me off was the pass #1, pass #2 etc. i think i get it now so basically mon and tuesday = 4-9 reps per set and 6 sets per muscle group...so how many excercises should i do per muscle group?
 
and for pass#2 i do 12-15 reps and 4 sets per muscle group followed by a 20-30 rep set...how many excerces per muscle group here?
 
and by cooldown do you mean strech?
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RE: For Losing Fat - Friday, July 28, 2006 1:18 PM ( #27 )

and by cooldown do you mean strech?

Walk it off for a few minutes to circulate the blood and stretch.
 

What through me off was the pass #1, pass #2 etc.

Sorry..this is sort of a simplified growth plan.
 

how many excerces per muscle group here?

1 compound exercise per muscle group for both for starters...
Next week choose different movements and perform the workout in a different order
example: incline week 1, decline week 2, flat week 3...etc
quads/hams/calf/back/biceps then back/biceps/quads/hams/calf
 
After 2 weeks you should know if things are right for you to grow...if not...then some tweaking needs to be done!
 
Remember muscle burns fat!  More muscle = faster resting metabolism.
 
This training should hit all the muscle fiber types and keep em growing.
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RE: For Losing Fat - Saturday, July 29, 2006 9:22 AM ( #28 )
wouldnt it be more benefecial to cardio after weights though?
 
And what do you think about just doing Xceed+BCAA's+G preworkout and postworkout, and Take BCAA's+G in the morning as well.
 
And of course multivitamins and fish oil 2x-3x a day.
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RE: For Losing Fat - Sunday, July 30, 2006 8:23 PM ( #29 )
Thanks, the perfect article on "How to lose weight step-by-step?"! I'm not sure if its possible but, it would be better if you could summarize this in smaller format, a bit too much to read. For those who really NEED to lose weight, you better keep reading!
Its not what you know, its what you can do that counts!

Age: 18
Height: 5' 7"
Weight: 162 lb
Current Status: Strength Training (Max-OT)
danmirage

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RE: For Losing Fat - Saturday, August 05, 2006 9:38 AM ( #30 )

wouldnt it be more benefecial to cardio after weights though

Yes, I believe I said that.
 

And what do you think about just doing Xceed+BCAA's+G preworkout and postworkout

that sounds good
 

, and Take BCAA's+G in the morning as well.

I am not certain why you want to do that..you should be EATING first thing in the AM.
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