Few questions for you

Hey Dan,

Recently I have been doing a lot of thinking about the things I wanna do and my own life. Im going back to school in the fall and am majoring in Cellular and Molecular biology to get my 4 year, after that im looking to get into some kind of med perhaps, or something to do with the human body, as I have come to learn the more and more I attempt to build myself and train, the more I want to know more about the body.

But as I started thinking about all that it made me want to really try to buckle down and make some damn good gains with my own body, so im evaluating the things im doing (My avatar is a recent shot, im at 213lb's 6'3", not sure on bf% if your intrested in stats)

I have noticed im in the gym for about 1.25 - 1.5 hours. I remember reading a long time ago that you say it starts to become counter productive to go past one hour. I am on Madcows advanced 5x5 program right now, and while I am adding in a few extra assistance exercises, it just seems like with the heavy weight and all, I cant help but have rest times between 2-5 minutes which eats away at the clock. Now I have been told to just take as much rest as I need to perform the next set optimally, but perhaps I am taking it a bit to far? Should I be cutting myself off regardless of anything else I wanted to get done at the 1 hour mark?

and then where does the cardio come into play in regards to the hour mark, as I usually do 10-20 minutes of HIIT training right after lifting. typically 1 min walk, 45 second sprints at 12-14mph, 1.0 incline.

And I just wanna slip this in here. In regards to HIIT and steady cardio, which is more beneficial to do after a workout? I have read pro's and cons on both sides but can not seem to find a deffinant answer.

I might as well ask this since im already hitting you with so many questions (sorry!) I am a fan of fullbody workouts, I have seen my best gains come from Madcows and texas method. But I was looking in my journal and I have noticed that I have been doing those 2 programs for about the past year now. So I have come to a point where im trying to decide, when should I incorporate something new? Yeah, I make sure I add weight and progress each workout, and each cycle through I throw in a new exercise or switch a few things up. But would I be seeing better results by throwing something completely new at my body like a 5 day split? or am I looking too far and perhaps its just as simple as adjust reps/sets/weight and rest time, super setting or even adding in negatives every so often?

Sorry for the long post and all the questions, I have just been trying to get everything else in line, like pre/post protein and carb intakes, and measuring portions out, etc... Just wanted to get these squared away and figured you would be the best person to ask!

6'3"  @215

Squat 1x20x275

press: 190, Deadlift: 450, Bench:285, P.clean: 235, Squat: 385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

You will likely learn in one class or another about the effects of cortisol and how the release of cortisol and the drop in gH occur at a certain point in intense training.  If you cut the workout time (the lifting protion) to 60 minutes or less, you will be avoiding the negative aspects of this relationship.

gH peaks at 20-30 +- minutes...dropping sharply at 40+- minutes

This is under intense lifting not endurance training.

Meaning?  You will grow faster and breakdown slower and you will recover better.

Next, how is your pre and post workout nutrition...this has a blunting effect on the negative aspects of this training...I mean if it includes the carbs....YOU NEED TO REPLENISH CARBS...

...and the best opportunity to do that is immediatly post workout.

Otherwise it can take days.  Yep.

REsearch suggests that 2 minutes or 5 minutes provides no significant difference to strength. Remember strength training is short and fast and relies on the ATP-PC system for energy...(PC meaing Phospho-CREATINE!)

This system (PC) recovers fairly quickly.  At the same time you are using the lactatic acid producing glycolysis for other energy...this can cause the feeling of fatigue...but you can still train maximally because your ATP-PC is intact after the 2 minute rest.  If your glycogen levels are not replenished, then you may feel even more tired as glycolysis is limited by this shortage...and you need to get the energy from another source...MUSCLE...(gluconeogenesis)...as cortisol rises the rate of breaking down muscle INCREASES...

OK?

So shorter, yes more intense training.  Full carb loading pre and post workout.

Well, the cardio discussion, I would give you the whole story, but no...the short version.

WHY are you doing cardio?

If you do 20 minutes of low intensity...your energy systems have to provide enrgy at a slow rate, and the ratio is higher in fat that glycogen.  You  burn less glycogen, spare more muscle and burn fat.

If you do 7 minutes of HIIT...your energy systems have to provide enrgy at a fast rate, and the ratio is higher in glycogen then fat....but the total fat is HIGHER.  The hormonal environment is more conducive.

So the choice is up to you, I prefer the idea of HIIT to low intensity because of the Higher VO2, the longer  epoc, and getting out of the gym faster...etc.

As to the workouts...there comes a time when the load is a bit greater than the available time.  You have to learn to cycle intensity over time...using multiple variables...

Let me insert that increasing weight is the LOWEST priority for these variables, though it  is one variable..but remember it is a TINY player in a BIG orchestra and over time you want to learn not to rely heavily on it for your stimulaiton.

Rests are ESSENTIAL...you will learn about that later.  But taking 10 days off every 8-12 weeks will make you grow faster overall!

So that said...if you have been training with te same methodology, then it is time for a change.  Start with a rest if you have not had one.

I could recommend any number of ideas for progressive training...but let me point to the ones at the bottom of my gaining mass thread.  Look at how the 3-day training is set up.  Read the whole thing.  See if you can determine the sets of variables that are being manipulated over time.

This is one approach.   A non linear 8 week program.  It teaches a few principles that are key in the concept of microcycles.

You will want to look at the idea of your Macro cycles and micro cycles.  Look at cycles of 8-12 weeks for the macro and weekly for micro...

Then look at the annual overview.  Have larger macro cycles.  The idea is to train your body in a fashion that it percieves as unfamiliar and has to adapt to.   Make the changes only as often and as drastic as is necessary to mainting the desired gains.   I wanted gains of 1-2 pounds a week, so I tracked lean body mass weekly and any time it slowed to 1 pound or less, I made some change.  Sometimes I did cycles that were essentially working Type I fiber, endurance type muscle...higher rep stuff...but this allowed recovery of tissues and other systems...and when I shifted gradually to 3day full body, I gained 1.5 pounds a week, then a 2 day split 3-days a week, the gains kept going, then a 3 day split 2x a week of really hard training...the gains kept going...then a mixed hypertrophy training...the gains kept going...that was over 8 months of  neearly continual new muscle gain.    Yes 30 pounds or so of muscle.

You can see the whole chart of the prorgession in my journal on about page two.

Naturally, my diet kept pace and went through variaitons and progressions.  I did little cardio except forwarm up and recovery , except at one stage...which made muscle gains more challenging for me until I did my HIIT at a different time.

Did I answer you?

Feel free to ask follow up questions for deeper clarity.

I know I jsut sort of skimmed and hopped about.

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Hey first and foremost, thank you for taking the time to answer my post, I know you must be a busy guy!

Ill give you a little more info on me and my reasonings first. I play semi-pro football, so that is the main reason for the cardio. I Mainly do HIIT to help improve sprinting, and to help adapt myself to long periods of where I will go all out, stop, go all out, stop repeat...

This Macro cycle I have been doing 10 minutes of HIIT, 2 weeks ago I decided to up it 1 sprint every week, so im on 14 minutes of actual HIIT currently. walk 1 min, sprint 45ish. So I guess u can say in regards to the HIIT my micro cycling has been to increase it by 1 sprint every week.

On non lifting days I run about 2 miles in the morning, taking BCAA's and 20g of whey before hand.

I Have become fond of the strength programs, like I said I have personally seen the best gains not only strength wise, but hypertrophy wise through these programs. Not to mention strength will come in handy play football.

But like I said im starting to think about where I am now because I have been doing the same 2 programs for the past year now.

january I was "cutting" until april first where I lost about 25 pounds or so of fat. Before that I had let myself get up to 236, but honestly I had put on A lot of fat and I suspect it was simply because I was eating too many calories without knowing it... not measuring serving sizes etc...

Ok so on to my responses to your post:

So I need to keep it under an hour for the weight lifting portion of my lifting. It just seems like I am at a point where a few extra assistance exercises, like bi/tri, chest flyes, lat raises (isolations) will benefit my training in regards to growth. So after my regualr program outlined compounds, I will add some. Ill give you todays workout example...

Squats: 45,135,225 (warmups) 275,315,325 1x3 (ramping sets)
Bench: 135,185 (warmups) 225x3x3
Cleans: 135,155 (warmups) 175x3x3

This is the original planned cycle routine, 3 compounds. Now I added

Swiss ball crunches 3x15 + 25lb's
Flat chest flyes 2x11x50's
DB curls 2x10x50's each arm
Tri pull down 2x10
1x10 wide grip pull ups, threw these in cause I didnt have time for my HIIT

So meeting the 1 hour mark is no problem with just doing the compounds, with the assistance exercises it makes me go over by about 15 minutes or so, all though today I did do everything in about an hour.

Do you see anything wrong with that other then the going over the alloted 1 hour?

as far as dieting.

pre workout today I had 1 piece of chicken approx. 140 cals, 19g of protein + 2 pieces whole grain bread with 1 serving of butter and 20g whey protein.

Post workout I had creatine pre mix + banana + 50g of whey. and 1 hour later I am eating 2 pieces of chicken, 3 servings of greenbeans and 1 fiber bar.

This is typical on lifting days. My maintanance caloric intake is approx 2,900 cals at 6'3" and my previous weight of 209 and my activity level. So I typically try to take in around 3,100-3,200.

I want to up the calories because I would like to put on muscle faster, but I am hesitant to put on too much fat...I know I know...

My dieting feels like its close and I just need to focus more on it. I can eyeball servings now and measure calories, but my meals up until now really are not too balanced. As in protein/fat/carb ratios and I know you talked about that in your journal. Something I really want to work on.

I currently eat most of my carbs early in the day, and eat none before bed. But this was my philosophy while cutting and I have just become used to it.

The big picture always looks so simple, but when you break it up into little pieces and each part that goes into gaining mass, being healthy and lifting it seems so damn complicated.

I am going to take a second look at your threads and I will post back with any questions I may have. Also if you do have time feel free to critque my lifting/dieting that I have wrote down so far. I can post a typical day of eating if you would like, but that is kind of another question I am saving for later anyway...

sorry its so long, haha.

6'3"  @215

Squat 1x20x275

press: 190, Deadlift: 450, Bench:285, P.clean: 235, Squat: 385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Ok after re-reading your threads I do have a few more questions regarding my own direction with my training.

It means everyone who has been training with 24 sets per bodypart with 8-10 reps and eating 500 calories over maintenance will respond similarly to a change to 4 sets per bodypart with 10-12 reps to MMF (momentary muscle failure) with only 30 second rests.

from your sets/reps thread, that quote, are you implying that by doing less sets per body part, with possibly higher reps and a much higher intensity (30 second rests) will net you similar hypertrophy gains compared to doing 24 sets per body part of work?

Seems pretty smart to simply up the intensity for those 4 sets, then to just do 24 sets total...

Just caught my eye because while I want to primarily focus on strength and power, I do want to look better (who doesnt) I would like to put on more mass, and as you can see in my avatar drop a lot of the excess fat I have.

Two groups took turns participating in both of two 7.5-week regimens. Muscle samples were analyzed for area changes.

1. performing a muscular strength program (high-resistance, low-repetition)
2. performing a muscular endurance program (low-resistance, high-repetition)

Group A did Program-1 followed by Program-2
Group B did Program-2 followed by Program-1

The results showed that the Group-B progression maximized muscle fiber area growth continually, while Group-A increased then decreased muscle fiber area.

So say if someone is concerned about hypertrophy and strength, its much more beneficial for them to train hypertrophy first and THEN strength, correct?

Where does these low intensity/high volume, low intensity/low volume, High intensity low volume routines fit in with that. Because each day of the week your changing variables regarding intensity/volume, and upping weight each week.

Forgive me if I am asking too many questions, I just feel a little over whelmed and confused right now. For example I am on madcows 5x5 as I said, the first phase of the program is 5x5 and 1x5(low/high, low/low, high/low) this is considered the volume phase. After 4 weeks, Your droping sets down to 3x3 and 1x3, same scheme as before, upping the weight and pushing for PR in 3's.

I guess im just trying to understand this a little better so I can one day form my own routines with confidence.

So if I take a 5x5 strength oriented program, can I alter it to perform more with what your talking about regarding progression changes. Like for example on 5x5 days perhaps change it to 4x8/3x12 for a week, then maybe drop the rest time to 45 seconds from 60...

changes like that without altering the designed strength routine so much that it is not a strength routine anymore. So perhaps having the high volume day with lower sets but higher reps while still keeping the high intensity day/lifts with heavy weight so I can keep pushing new PR's?

Would that work or would it be too much on the CNS to train for strength and a bit of hypertrophy...or am I way off and I should just focus on one per macro cycle instead of trying to micro it in weekly?

I am aware what im trying to accomplish mass wise is mostly going to come from excess calories and proper dieting and pre/post WO nutrition. But as you can see being strength oriented I would like to add a bit of hypertrophy in there.

Am I thinking on the right track?

As far as Dieting, I think first I will focus on having protein, fibrous carb and a starchy carb for each meal. Once I get that down, I want to focus on actual %'s of each and keep track of that. Then I should be able to adjust things as I see fit weekly. Easing into it with baby steps.

I would also like to say, as always it seems little things always add up. Since I started calculating my calorie intake and eating much cleaner...

I have also started stretching regularly after each workout
I have started drinking tons of water through out the day
Making sure to get at least 8 hours of sleep a day (rare occasions where I cant for work)
Just generally trying to be upbeat and positive (less stress)

and I have seen some great gains

I also wanted to get your take on Pre cooked chicken...as I have discovered this a while ago and honestly I love it, saves me tons of time and its very convinient.

Thanks for everything Dan, I bumped your journal thread. It should really be stickied.

6'3"  @215

Squat 1x20x275

press: 190, Deadlift: 450, Bench:285, P.clean: 235, Squat: 385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Good, it is important to orient your training to your goals…

So, explosive strength and power are higher on the list of priorities.  Short to moderate energy output sprints are next.

Then definitely intervals and maximal output sprints of varying durations for max speed.

“So I need to keep it under an hour for the weight lifting portion of my lifting. It just seems like I am at a point where a few extra assistance exercises, like bi/tri, chest flyes, lat raises (isolations) will benefit my training in regards to growth.”

If you look at the 3-day program I referred you to and read it, he mentions rotating around the choice of isolation type exercise ..so you might put in Bi curl Monday and Fly Wednesday etc, so you still isolate them and your compound movements still hit them.

I assume you have variety in your exercises, as you did mention that.  So, that is fine.

I would recommend, and you say you do it, varying the rep/weight/pace/functional focus/ etc

You seem to be aware that shorter time = higher intensity.
Higher intensity = more response from training.

Post exercise and running – replenish your carbs and proteins.

The best place to up the calories is pre and post workout…dial that nutrition in and then see what happens…

Remember: a general rule for replenishing glycogen and sparing and building muscle pre-post workout:
30 minutes before training and immediately after cool down:
0.2 g/lb high glycemic index carbs (juices/fruit, etc)
0.1 g/lb protein from whey (or/and 5 grams of BCAA or 15 grams of EAAs immediately before training and possible sipped with dilute carbs during training if training exceeds 30 minutes)

24 sets per body part is very excessive and the resultant chemical exhaustion will not lead to the gains for a natural trainer that a more reasonable workload will provide.

So yes, I can take someone who has overtrained consistently, give them a week off and start their muscle gains at about 3 to 4 sets per muscle group.

Progressing with sets and volume is not the best way to progress to maintain gains…both have a higher likelihood of exceeding the maximal threshold.

One should do the LEAST work to achieve the goal and leave LOTS of room for advancement.  Not work at a level BEYOND the maximal threshold and hope the body adapts positively before the injury cycle kicks in.

In the sense of cycling, I would recommend muscle endurance- hypertrophy – strength - power – rest
 as the direction of a major cycle.

The muscle endurance training DOES train other fiber types to grow and DOES maker these fiber types more useful …a few sessions in with the start of your hypertrophy sessions in the first 3 or 4 weeks and then every now and then as an alternate (to aid recovery from intense strength or power work.)

“Where does these low intensity/high volume, low intensity/low volume, High intensity low volume routines fit in with that. Because each day of the week your changing variables regarding intensity/volume, and upping weight each week”

YOU ARE NOT upping the weight each week.  That is something you need to wrap your head around.

If you are training with 5 minute rests, dropping to 3 minutes rests means you may use a lower weight to train.

Actual weight is not as important as relative weight per unit time per unite velocity, etc…

Changing variables allows you to get more from a session with MUCH less weight…

Power is the ability to accelerate (or decelerate!!!!) a mass in relation to time.  Acceleration and deceleration are two VERY powerful training methods ..with the LATTER being the most overall beneficial.

A little concept rich. 
Most people ONLY change weight upward…
That is not how the body works.

“So if I take a 5x5 strength oriented program, can I alter it to perform more with what your talking about regarding progression changes. Like for example on 5x5 days perhaps change it to 4x8/3x12 for a week, then maybe drop the rest time to 45 seconds from 60...

changes like that without altering the designed strength routine so much that it is not a strength routine anymore. So perhaps having the high volume day with lower sets but higher reps while still keeping the high intensity day/lifts with heavy weight so I can keep pushing new PR's?”

“Would that work or would it be too much on the CNS to train for strength and a bit of hypertrophy...or am I way off and I should just focus on one per macro cycle instead of trying to micro it in weekly?”

Macro changes are GREAT!
Changing from power/strength/hypertrophy is good as it lets the various systems rest.

POWER is more CNS related and Hypertrophy relies on more energy systems and more fiber types…and STRENGTH is in the middle.

Yep, you are starting to wrap your head around it.

Try a few things….choose a weight that you can do 15 reps max…

Now after warm up, try some maximal acceleration followed by deceleration…rest at the bottom to let the elastic component release…then maximal acceleration up again…then immediately maximal deceleration (pull it to acceleration the down..then decelerate at the bottom)

Once you understand that try it with a regular 10 rep weight…You will likely find this is pretty intense...and the next day or so you will discover that it hit your muscle very deeply...and later you will see that, from the high fiber recuitment, you have other benefits.

Get your good fats into the right % for optimal growth!

I would pre cook chicken, turkey for the whole week for myself…if what you found is good nutritionally and works for you…great!

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