Fat Burn + Muscle Growth

i'm simply suggesting that cardio is necesssary to cut, and any body builder would/should tell you that.

I know.  My point is it isn't.

Again catabolism comes from greater expenditure of energy vs consumed energy.



What's the difference between the following?


* Consuming only 1 meal of 500 calories and burning 2000 calories through regular daily activity (moving, breathing...)

Total: Minus 1500 kcal

* Consuming 3 meals totalling to 1500 calories and burning 2000 calories through regular daily activity (moving, breathing) plus cardio which consumes a further 500 calories?

Total: Minus 1000kcal


Option 1 doesn't feature any cardio yet it's 500 calories in the negative more than option 2 which features cardio.

ORIGINAL: TheSilverFox

ORIGINAL: boomersooner1331

ORIGINAL: RedJeep

ORIGINAL: boomersooner1331

you have to cut before a competition dude. you might know that, you might not. you cut by doing cardio

No, you cut by modifying your diet. Some bodybuilder you are.

hahahah okay dude.  i want to see someone  keep muscle mass while changing their diet and not doing any cardio. 

this is totally possible.

like red-jeep said...   elevate the protein intake.  lower the carb ratio. 

it will just take longer than if you were doing cardio.... but it is possible

right, it takes longer. That is why most bodybuilders start cutting for a show way before the show. You cut slowly so you dont lose mass.  

ORIGINAL: David1991

ORIGINAL: boomersooner1331

while cutting.


yes

?

ok so basically u were proven wrong. i dont know why your still arguing back about it. Cardio isnt necessary, it can just help

 
the OP wanted to know how to cut weight and grow muscle at the SAME time
 
cardio

ORIGINAL: RedJeep

ORIGINAL: TheSilverFox

ORIGINAL: boomersooner1331

ORIGINAL: RedJeep

ORIGINAL: boomersooner1331

you have to cut before a competition dude. you might know that, you might not. you cut by doing cardio

No, you cut by modifying your diet. Some bodybuilder you are.

hahahah okay dude.  i want to see someone  keep muscle mass while changing their diet and not doing any cardio. 

this is totally possible.

like red-jeep said...   elevate the protein intake.  lower the carb ratio. 

it will just take longer than if you were doing cardio.... but it is possible

right, it takes longer. That is why most bodybuilders start cutting for a show way before the show. You cut slowly so you dont lose mass.  

 
point accepted

Rollingstone
i still would like to see twisted's plan...

In good time my man

26 May 2008- 30 May 2008













Day
Date
Start
Finish
Duration
Code
Title
Location

Tue
27 May 2008
9:30
11:30
2:00
MSCMD1ENS
Introduction To Environmental Systems
Anselm Hall

Wed
28 May 2008
14:00
16:00
2:00
MSCMD1VAL
Variety Of Life
Anselm Hall

Thu
29 May 2008
14:00
16:00
2:00
MSCMD1ENV
The Organism And Its Environment
Anselm Hall


Im VERY busy revising for these bastards

Kingkebabs
"Cardio" is simply a method of expending energy (besides being exercise for heart and lungs!). This energy will be taken from consumed food unless the overall energy consumed falls short of energy requirements.



Both cardio (expenditure of energy) and eating less (consumption of less energy) can force the body into the required catabolic state.

Completely agree with first paragraph, and is what ive been saying for ages about simple cutting before the AR's start waffling on about nonsense.

I do also agree with the 2nd parapgraph but not quite to the same degree.

Im sure you know already kingkebabs you just didnt want to labour the point out because you thought we'd all understand, but for the body to start entering a catabolic state requires quite a hefty amount of expenditure vs consumption.

All im saying is going a tad under wont do much damage with muscle loss.

Redjeep
It's called increase protein, lower carbs.

Page 43 of this training forum you will find this

http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/Twistedlinks_muscle_strength_gain_fat_maintain_loss_program/m_271540/tm.htm

I have been stating this for ages, and still incorporate carb/protein cycling.



Is cardio needed for weightlifting? Not really, depending, SK has killer metabolism, however a lot of people to stay below 10%bf do require either extreme dieting (i dont mean lowering calories necessarily) or some form of fat burning exercise, be it cardio or an extra hour of weightlifting.

David in answer to your question yes i do cardio, depending on my mood i do 1-5 mile runs as fast as i can.

I used to play rugby for a few months and i needed to get my speed and endurance up because i was basically target practice when i started, i did get faster and i could in the end run for ages, and i enjoyed the increased health i was seeing in terms of lung capacity and heart power (I already had 55 rest and 80 after 10-20 minutes of sprinting, im now at like 50/80 i rarely go over 80 unless im doing stupid exercises, after 5 mile runs i usually crank up to 90-95)

I also noticed my deadlift strength went crazy during rugby in conjunction with the cardio.
I believe this to maybe be strengthening of the legs and the ability to posture myself better as in rugby where squatting down and pushing a lot and it is sometimes like a deadlift in terms of back and legs.




If anyone wants to lose weight and keep muscle, read that really old thread, and do cycle 1 and 2 if you wish to, cycle 1 on its own will lose fat a lot.

Others did try it, edrice tried it for ages, unfortunately as i was unable to measure his gains he didnt gain much muscle per se, he gained about 2lbs in 8 weeks, but he went down in bodyfat quite a bit, so id say a good 5-8lbs weightgain, and a loss of bodyfat.

I performed better, but i had more working experience of the workout and diet and i have my metabolism, so....

 
Also as i kind of disclaimer for that old thread.
 
If you dont get the results its not entirely my fault, im not a babysitter, im just saying the macro %'s that will kick your body into different metabolic pathways, you still need to figure out your calories, expenditure, and listen to your body, if you feel like youre not losing fat, lower them by 100 etc or something.
 
I dont like working programs online for the reason you have the blindly follow everything, its best to experiment and find what works best for you.
 
There are foundations in bodybuilding, such as consumption must be equal to or greater than expenditure to gain decent muscle etc etc.
But there comes a point where everyone in the "veteran but not professional" range just have to do different things and it wont make much difference.
 
This is what is called a "moot point" and they've been firing off like crazy as of late.
 
Anyway, hope that thread works for some of you, it allowed me to break my weightgain problem, cycle 2 really bulked me up, and cycle 1 kept my fat in check, and because of the changing metabolic pathways it made cycle 1 stronger than it would be longterm, and made cycle 2 stronger.
 
Because my body hadnt processed carbs in 4-6 weeks as a main macronutrient for energy, when i did eat carbs my body was slower at processing them, as a result i didnt have to eat 5000 calories as an ectomonster to gain weight, cycling macronutrients allows you to make your body work a specific way, without gruellingly eating tonnes of food.
 
 

ORIGINAL: twistedlink



Im sure you know already kingkebabs you just didnt want to labour the point out because you thought we'd all understand, but for the body to start entering a catabolic state requires quite a hefty amount of expenditure vs consumption.

 
Finally!

haha yeah, ive said it before somewhere yesterday...actually it was here LOL.
 
Anyway.
 
Peoples bodies arent against them, if you do happen to starve them(by a small amount), it is extremely efficient at trying to maintain its current state (this gets less efficient with more mass, most people here need not worry, catabolism would take place in pro Bbers who are 250lbs +)
 
Muscles need protein, so to stay anabolic and lose fat you simply make sure the muscles have the required protein, and burn off a tonne of fat through forcing the body to use reserves (fat) instead of dietary energy.
 
And nobody say gluconeogenesis
 
I brang that point up years ago when nobody knew what it even was, now im getting it thrown back at me every damn nutrition thread.
 
Gluconeogenesis is extremely slow and taxxing process, it will only really take place when the body is completely starved of glucose/glycogen and is starting to burn fat at such a fast rate the body starts preparing for an "alternative plan"
 
To get gluconeogenesis going to need to either be eating 5% carbs, or cardioing for HOURS and HOURS.
 
 
 
 

ORIGINAL: kingkebabs

Intensive lifting will exercise your cardiovascular system to handle work capacity but not beyond that of the actual demands of the method. Training with intensity conditions your heart to work efficiently at trainng with intensity - nothing more. It does not to train your heart to work with a greater distributed workload. Intensive weight training for 10 years won't allow you to run a marathon.

And why would you need to run a marathon? Strength training keeps your cardiovascular system conditioning just above the average, which is usually enough for what you do.

On a more relative note; ask a person who doesn't perform cardio how he copes with high rep work in comparison the person who accessorises with cardio. When you begin to explore more advanced methods of training - namely conjuagate training you'll discover what you assumed to be an efficient weightlifting body actually isn't so efficient afterall.

Adaption is very specific. You train for strength with low reps, you get better at lower reps. If you want to get good at high rep work you do high rep work, which besides training your cardiovascular system provides peripheral metabolic conditioning that steady state slow cardio fails to provide.

So I wouldn't say that a complete routine should include cardio. It all depends on your goal. Though I would say that crossfit workouts work much better for "cardio" and metabolic conditioning than the conventional way.

I like this thread.

ORIGINAL: twistedlink

Because my body hadnt processed carbs in 4-6 weeks as a main macronutrient for energy, when i did eat carbs my body was slower at processing them, as a result i didnt have to eat 5000 calories as an ectomonster to gain weight, cycling macronutrients allows you to make your body work a specific way, without gruellingly eating tonnes of food.

thats the part i dont like. i want to eat a ton of foods and i dont want my body to be even worse at eating carbs

i gotta go do HIIT but im gonna check out that link when i'm done. i read it when u first posted it but that was awhile ago.
did u make it up?

Duke of the Emancipation Detoxification

ORIGINAL: Wyrms

I like this thread.

 
::offers wyrms some popcorn::

i didnt make it up entirely myself, IBB put in the grip changing stuff, but diet yes, i just decided to mess around with things until i added weight, got an idea, read up some stuff from A level and stuff on metabolic shizzle and came up with that diet.
 
Protein and carb cycling was made before that, but i dont think my milk idea has ever been done before...dunno lol.
 
Yeah it wont be as good as processing carbs david, then again you doing keto made you worse at processing carbs, but you still tried it, it takes the body a relatively long time to get back on track with nutrition, it needs to start changing its enzyme count for certain criteria etc etc

actually looking back at it now it doesnt go too low with carbs. for me 45% is high and the 30% is kinda low but not ridiculous. todays my last day on my cut (now i have to take a week off) and i was around 28% carbs.
ive had good results cutting with carb cycling, i just wish i could get as good of results when bulking. in a week i think im gonna set it up so i have high carb days every workout day (3x a week) and low carb days on off/HIIT days to see how that works

Duke of the Emancipation Detoxification

you cant cut your carbs out like that you have to cycle the carbs..IE..full carb days...three quarter carb days and half carb days and they atre cycles according to your body fat measurements...you want to go into a competition at 5 percent or less if possible.....So the advice of just cutting all carbs out can make you flat....and hurt your physique

ORIGINAL: boomersooner1331

you cant cut your carbs out like that you have to cycle the carbs..IE..full carb days...three quarter carb days and half carb days and they atre cycles according to your body fat measurements...you want to go into a competition at 5 percent or less if possible.....So the advice of just cutting all carbs out can make you flat....and hurt your physique

who was that towards?

Duke of the Emancipation Detoxification