Everyone should read this

I think often people get caught up in too many variables and forget that hormones basically whats gonna make or break you. 

This article talks about the anabolic hormones your body makes, and how to get the most out of them through training and diet.  Real good read.  Even you knowledgeable people can probably take something from this.

http://www.fitnessforon...le/hormones/part_one.htm

I linked to the first page, mainly about GH but theres a link at the bottom that takes you to the next page.  Theres 3 pages and then some more after on some diets but I didnt find them as interesting.



When you understand whats going on, you can make better decisions towards your goals.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

Thanks for the link RS. Hormones are the area my knowledge have always lagged in yet I've been interested in learning more but couldn't find good links like this.

I definitely agree they can make or break you.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

good ass read RS put alot of my scattered information into one place. appreciate it man

RS out of curiosity how many carb meals you been having or you just doing a  set amount of time?

YOU GOTTA EAT BIG, TO BE BIG!!

NASM certified trainer
NFPT certified trainer

Winter Bulk goal:245-250 by dec 31
Current weight: 235

That does sound like a very good read. Cheers buddy!
I'll make a note to read it at work tonight.

Good read. this should be placed in a spot where people new to the site and to lifting can take a look at this

Current: 19, 5'11", 190@7%

bench:305 squat:370(atg) deadlift:475
Goals: 4plate squat, 5plate dead

"obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated"

Don't take it as a "DUH!" remark, but I was kinda hoping this was obvious to everyone here.  Every single molecule of muscle in your body is there because an anabolic hormone instructed your body to build it.

You can have the best training, diet, and rest program in the world, but if your hormones are compromised, or you are sabotaging them with crap like alcohol and tobacco and processed food and stress and environmental toxins, etc, you ain't growing squat.

This article, and information like it, should be mandatory reading for everyone who signs up  for DBB or a gym membership

My home away from DBB

Have I not said this a million times?

There are two times when the release of growth hormone is the greatest. First, "… the largest burst of GH is released during the early hours of sleep-hence our eating habits are crucial to maximizing this nighttime secretion " (Jamieson, pp. 85,86). More specifically, "Growth hormone is especially dependent on sleep, because a major growth hormone surge occurs during the first episode of slow-wave sleep, approximately 30-70 minutes after falling asleep" (Faigin, p.200).
However, consumption of carbs at bedtime can blunt this crucial release of growth hormone. And the greater the amount of carbs and the higher the glycemic rating of the carbs, the greater will be the increase in blood sugar and the greater the suppression of GH. Thus, "… going to bed with a belly-full of carbs is hormonally unwise and may diminish, if not nullify, nocturnal growth hormone release" (Faigin, p.201).
It if for this reason that some will recommend not eating at all for at least two hours before bedtime. However, as indicated above, the consumption of protein will increase GH release. So an even better approach would be to limit carbohydrate consumption but to eat some protein at bedtime.

Yes, I thought so too.

Veg for the win!

Just kidding.  A million people said it before me.

Actually, the only one that I was paying attention to was Jillian Michaels, and only because I have a crush on her

My home away from DBB

The solution to the problems: Listen to Veg.

I won't even lie, I had no idea to most any of the stuff in this article.

I need to stop paying attention to exercise physiology, kinesiology, cardio and anatomy and more attention to nutrition and hormones.

Let's not forget my ACE certification exam is Wednesday.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Wow. That is some very interesting stuff.

The article almost hits Keto diet right? Low carb, high protein high fat.

Red PittBull's Log.

Red PittBull


Wow. That is some very interesting stuff.

The article almost hits Keto diet right? Low carb, high protein high fat.

Wrong.  That's how concepts like cycling low carb get turned into entire "diets" and a zillion books promoting one-size-fits-all.  It's called cherry-picking.  It's more accurate to say Keto borrows key components from known hormone science.  IMO, any diet advice that sways too drastically toward one side of the equation (and lingers there on principle) is imbalanced.  Read it again:

Moreover, IGF-1 is produced in the body through the combined actions of GH and insulin. And IGF-1 "… is at least as powerful an anabolic agent as either of its parents" (Faigin, p. 90). But a low carb diet would lead to a reduction in IGF-1 levels. So a low carb diet is not the answer either. In fact, this relationship of insulin, growth hormone, and IGF-1 is one reason why those following a low carb diet also often plateau after a period of time. There is a relationship with thyroid hormone here as well. "Raising GH has a profound effect on normalizing thyroid function … " (Jamieson, p.100). However, "Studies also show that diets that continuously restrict carbohydrate (like the Atkin's diet, for instance) cause a reduction in T3, and that administering carbohydrate can restore T3 levels after they have declined" (Faigin, p.139). This reduction in T3 is another reason people will often plateau on low carb diets.
So an ideal GH enhancing diet would include some carbs, but not an excessive amount. And the focus would be on low glycemic carbs.

My home away from DBB

veggeep

Red PittBull


Wow. That is some very interesting stuff.

The article almost hits Keto diet right? Low carb, high protein high fat.

Wrong.  That's how concepts like cycling low carb get turned into entire "diets" and a zillion books promoting one-size-fits-all.  It's called cherry-picking.  It's more accurate to say Keto borrows key components from known hormone science.  IMO, any diet advice that sways too drastically toward one side of the equation (and lingers there on principle) is imbalanced.  Read it again:

Moreover, IGF-1 is produced in the body through the combined actions of GH and insulin. And IGF-1 "… is at least as powerful an anabolic agent as either of its parents" (Faigin, p. 90). But a low carb diet would lead to a reduction in IGF-1 levels. So a low carb diet is not the answer either. In fact, this relationship of insulin, growth hormone, and IGF-1 is one reason why those following a low carb diet also often plateau after a period of time. There is a relationship with thyroid hormone here as well. "Raising GH has a profound effect on normalizing thyroid function … " (Jamieson, p.100). However, "Studies also show that diets that continuously restrict carbohydrate (like the Atkin's diet, for instance) cause a reduction in T3, and that administering carbohydrate can restore T3 levels after they have declined" (Faigin, p.139). This reduction in T3 is another reason people will often plateau on low carb diets.
So an ideal GH enhancing diet would include some carbs, but not an excessive amount. And the focus would be on low glycemic carbs.

you bold lines that talk of the negatives of a low carb diet.  When he says low carb diet hes talking about constantly low carb like atkins.  Even says it right up there  He even goes on to outline what would seem to be the ideal diet for hormone optimization and it looks just like the ckd...but you probably didnt read that far.

So the highlighted doesnt apply to keto.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

Okay, Veg, noob questions ahead (warning!):  Isn't what you put in red the keto diet, it's just that all those low GI carbs are on the weekends?  The keto diet doesn't "continuously" restirict carbs because of the carb-up days.  How does the keto diet fail the paragraph you quoted.  Curious.  Thx!

It doesn't fail the description of keto.  This does:

The article almost hits Keto diet right? Low carb, high protein high fat

I don't see anything in that assessment that describes transience or cycling.  Like I said: it cherry-picks the key elements and leaves out the most important qualifier of all.

Drop in a "Periodic" at the start of the second sentence, and I'll call off my dogs.

My home away from DBB

It doesn't fail the description of keto.  This synopsis does:

The article almost hits Keto diet right? Low carb, high protein high fat

I don't see anything in that assessment that describes transience or cycling.  Like I said: it cherry-picks the key elements and leaves out the most important qualifier of all.

This author is clearly making the case for balance and pointing out that long-term adherence to either extreme leads to plateaus.  I think that's pretty unambiguous.

Drop in a "Periodic" at the start of the second sentence, and I'll call off my dogs.

My home away from DBB

Well the "periodicity" of the keto low carb then carb up cycling would prevent the body from adaptation and plateauing, no?  Or do you think the body would eventually acclimate to the cycling as well?  Veg, do you see any negatives to such an artificial chemical roller coaster long term on a weekly basis.  It seems to fail the "don't f*** with Mother Nature" principle to me.

I find it interesting that it says not to have carbs pre workout post workout or before bed which completely goes against like everything ive learned in certifications and alot of other sources.

what does everyone else think about that part?

YOU GOTTA EAT BIG, TO BE BIG!!

NASM certified trainer
NFPT certified trainer

Winter Bulk goal:245-250 by dec 31
Current weight: 235

Creation


I find it interesting that it says not to have carbs pre workout post workout or before bed which completely goes against like everything ive learned in certifications and alot of other sources.

what does everyone else think about that part?

He said in a carb burning metabolism you would want that pre and post workout carbs, but in a fat burning metabolism, you wouldnt.

Since almost no one is in a fat burning metabolism, the common knowledge would be to eat pwo carbs to refuel glycogen, otherwise you risk catabolism.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

^ Agreed with RS.

Creation coming from a PT (as of Wednesday) myself not everything in their writings is completely correct. Don't get me wrong, I learned tons of information from the ACE book and the NSCA book in which I just started but overall I trust a lot of what I've heard on here over it.

For example (off-topic, I apologize): it says functional strength is better with machines in ACE and that they are better to avoid injury, couldn't disagree more. They also said that when cutting fat your diet should be 55-65% carbohydrates, once again, I disagree. Then they said not to squat past parallel, I disagreed with that too.

Overall the books contain good information but still had some questionable information on the contents.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

RS,
   Do you take pwo carbs during the week?  I guess you're allowed a limited amt of carbs during the week, no?  Is that when you use them?  Are your w/o's different during the week than on weekends?  If you made the low carb w/o's more intense (high heart rate) would you burn fat instead of going catabolic?

MVP


^ Agreed with RS.

Creation coming from a PT (as of Wednesday) myself not everything in their writings is completely correct. Don't get me wrong, I learned tons of information from the ACE book and the NSCA book in which I just started but overall I trust a lot of what I've heard on here over it.

For example (off-topic, I apologize): it says functional strength is better with machines in ACE and that they are better to avoid injury, couldn't disagree more. They also said that when cutting fat your diet should be 55-65% carbohydrates, once again, I disagree. Then they said not to squat past parallel, I disagreed with that too.

Overall the books contain good information but still had some questionable information on the contents.

couldn't have said it better myself MVP

Current: 19, 5'11", 190@7%

bench:305 squat:370(atg) deadlift:475
Goals: 4plate squat, 5plate dead

"obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated"

JMBS


RS,
   Do you take pwo carbs during the week?  I guess you're allowed a limited amt of carbs during the week, no?  Is that when you use them?  Are your w/o's different during the week than on weekends?  If you made the low carb w/o's more intense (high heart rate) would you burn fat instead of going catabolic?

No pwo carbs.  The small amount allowd comes from the little bit in nuts and vegetables.  You dont intentionally eat any carb foods.  You let the diets natural anti-catabolic effects make up for the lack of pwo carbs. 

My workouts stay the same throughout, though Ive seen an example of a more complicated workout plan that goes with different phases of the diet, but its more for bodybuilders and I dont train that way.

I dont really understand your last question.  More intense and higher heart rate would lead to increased metabolism which would help you burn more fat later.  A real short intense workout (in any metabolism) wouldnt risk as much catabolism.  I dont really worry about it.  I just try to keep it under an hour and get what I need to done.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

Thanks RS!  I guess I don't really understand my last question either! ;)  I think I was thinking old school in that if your heart rate is up you're aerobic and hence using more fat for fuel (instead of muscle if once glycogen is depleted).  What can I say, I'm still trying to learn all of this stuff!  Thx again!  :)

JMBS


Thanks RS!  I guess I don't really understand my last question either! ;)  I think I was thinking old school in that if your heart rate is up you're aerobic and hence using more fat for fuel (instead of muscle if once glycogen is depleted).  What can I say, I'm still trying to learn all of this stuff!  Thx again!  :)

There's a target heart rate where youll use mainly fat for fuel, but you get there more by doing steady state cardio.  Glycogen is used more during weightlifting and doesnt burn as much fat while your exercising, but raises your metabolism so that you burn more later.

Its like the difference between HIIT and steady state.  Steady state burns fat while your doing it.  HIIT burns fat after you do it.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

During resistance training you rely primarily on the anaerobic glycosis (glucose/creatine phosphate) and during cardio (lower intensity) you rely primarily on the aerobic metabolism. The aerobic metabolism is predominate when adequate oxygen is available through the increase of the injection fraction and hemoglobin and it is the preferred source for converting to ATP (then ADP) by the body. Anywhere from 50-85% of maximum intensity the anaerobic threshold occurs though.

HIIT will increase your metabolic rate but due to requiring more energy, it can burn muscle at the same time if you're not careful. Lower intensity cardio is what I would recommend a person with a higher/faster metabolism do. Why? So they train the aerobic metabolism instead of relying predominantly on the anaerobic glycosis and their metabolisms and fat burning capacity is already high, so the increments of the metabolic rate will bring little significance. 

So the type of cardio you do IMO is more towards your metabolism and goals. HIIT releases better hormonal benefits like testosterone, epinephrine and norepinephrine. But as mentioned, doesn't train your aerobic metabolism as effectively and can cost you more muscle.  I've talked to a few others that share the same opinion.

You burn more calories with HIIT due to the dependence on the anaerobic glycosis (as with resistance training). 

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

Moreover:
Cholesterol is the building block of testosterone, so it would make sense that a meat-eating, cholesterol consuming diet would yield more of the big T that a vegetarian diet would. And indeed, that's what a 1985 study found when it looked at a large cross-section of omnivores and vegetarians. What was surprising was how significant the difference was: The meat-eaters actually had 36 percent more T than the guys who stuck to rabbit food….
A 1989 study found pretty much the same thing: The meat-eaters ate more fat, more cholesterol, more saturated fat, and less fiber than the vegetarians and had 31 percent more testosterone (Schuler, p.86).
Another study had similar results:
A Dutch study published in 1992 looked at changes in T levels on these two diets. A group of young male endurance athletes ate and trained on each diet for 6 weeks. (Half started on the meat-rich diet, half on the vegetarian diet; then they switched.) Total testosterone declined 35 percent when the athletes used the vegetarian diet (Schuler, p.76).

So the consumption of meat raises T levels while a vegetarian diet lowers T levels. Another issue in regards to vegetarians could be that soy is often included as a source of protein on a vegetarian diet. But research shows that soy can lower T levels (Di Pasquale, p.44; see also my article Soy: Health Food or Food to Avoid?).
However, even the inclusion of dairy and eggs would not correct the problem. "Dutch research shows that athletes had higher testosterone levels when eating meat-based protein, compared with other sources, such as dairy and eggs" (Thorton, p.155). So even an ovo-lacto-vegetarian diet would not be good for T levels.


Veg, read this and you shall be converted!

V,
    You're the Clipart Photoshop GOD!

 

RollingStone

Creation


I find it interesting that it says not to have carbs pre workout post workout or before bed which completely goes against like everything ive learned in certifications and alot of other sources.

what does everyone else think about that part?

He said in a carb burning metabolism you would want that pre and post workout carbs, but in a fat burning metabolism, you wouldnt.

Since almost no one is in a fat burning metabolism, the common knowledge would be to eat pwo carbs to refuel glycogen, otherwise you risk catabolism.

From what I read he simply stated that carbs pre workout suppress your biggest release of GH, whatever the workout.

"However, "a carbohydrate-rich, pre-workout meal squelches exercise-induced growth hormone secretion." And, "Another disadvantage of a pre-workout meal rich in carbohydrate pertains to its effect on brain chemistry…. By elevating serotonin, a neurotransmitter with sedative properties, a carbohydrate-rich meal can adversely affect motivation and energy levels. A protein based pre-workout meal has the opposite effect" (Faigin, pp. 240, 241). So protein would be much better to consume pre-workout than carbohydrate."

V,
    You're the Clipart Photoshop GOD!

 

Virt, I'll be "converted" when everyone's predictions about the inability of my diet to support continuous muscle growth start coming true

Until then, I'm still gaining, and I don't eff with what isn't broken.

My home away from DBB

RS/MVP:  So as an ecto, when it comes time for me to cut, I should go with slower cardio rather than HIIT for the fat burn?  I'd rather do the HIIT (shorter, more enjoyable).  Or is a blend of the two not a bad thing?  Is there any benefit to the workout being higher intensity (circuit training approach), not just because the shorter w/o limits risk of catabolism, but that the elevated HR burns some fat?  Bottom line is more muscle mass = more energy demand = less surplus to be stored as fat?  Does a high metabolism burn fat or just not leave any excess calories to be stored as fat?

JMBS


RS/MVP:  So as an ecto, when it comes time for me to cut, I should go with slower cardio rather than HIIT for the fat burn?  I'd rather do the HIIT (shorter, more enjoyable).  Or is a blend of the two not a bad thing?  Is there any benefit to the workout being higher intensity (circuit training approach), not just because the shorter w/o limits risk of catabolism, but that the elevated HR burns some fat?  Bottom line is more muscle mass = more energy demand = less surplus to be stored as fat?  Does a high metabolism burn fat or just not leave any excess calories to be stored as fat?

I cant do steady state.  I just dont have the patience to sit on a treadmill or anything like that I feel like Im wasting my life.  You could do circuit training but that could cut into your strength/muscular gains.

I like HIIT.  I like sprinting and I like being done in fifteen minutes.  I play alot of basketball.  Ill call that my steady state.

Ill leave the rest to the gh release from all tha squats lol.



Oo and a higher metabolism just burns more energy in general.  It depends what and how much you eat and train that decides what will be burned for energy.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

Yeah, I'd much rather go hiking or take a spin on my bike than be on a treadmill like a gerbil for an hour.