Ester vs. Mono
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Ester vs. Mono - 5/16/2008 1:14:07 PM
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Maverick620
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Which type of creatine is better and why? What are the pros/cons of mono vs. ester?
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RE: Ester vs. Mono - 5/16/2008 1:39:46 PM
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Maverick620
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I am using CE2 HI Def and have had great results from it. But, I just wanted to know if mono is better.
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RE: Ester vs. Mono - 5/16/2008 8:14:22 PM
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JohnnyB21
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bulkingup
Mono....Hands down!
Mono has science to back it up...
ester...As far as I know is nothing more than theory and has no studies or clinical trials to back up its claims.
If there have been no studies or clinical trials on ester, how do you know that mono is the better product? Don't you need studies on both to make that claim?
Are you saying there have been studies on CEE but they fail to support the hypothesis that CEE is better or are you saying that no studies at all have been conducted on CEE?
Thanks,
JB
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RE: Ester vs. Mono - 5/17/2008 1:46:15 PM
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Maverick620
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I have personally read a lot about both mono and ester and have ester to be more potent since it absorbs quicker and does not have to transfer through molecules like mono does so you actually get more creatine absorption. And I like the fact that there is no bloating in ester. Plus, it gives you more hard and defined muscularity than mono.
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RE: Ester vs. Mono - 5/17/2008 5:43:29 PM
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Maverick620
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Word, I read that. Yeah I have tried mono in liquid form, and It bloated me. I do not like looking full of water retention and my muscles feeling squishy haha, I like the hard lean look, that is why I stack ester with Anabolic switch. I no my ester is working, gives me so much endurance and quick too, that is why i take it and I am going keep stacking it with N02 Black, the best combo ever!
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RE: Ester vs. Mono - 5/17/2008 5:55:29 PM
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Maverick620
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Yeah, I totally know what you mean. My buddy and I tried Black powder at the same time without ever taking pre-workout supplements, ( Most are a joke), and he said it gave him nothing. I still take it and I love it. I'll probably by something else when I run out, do you recommend anything Bulk?
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RE: Ester vs. Mono - 5/17/2008 6:47:53 PM
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bulkingup
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Maverick620
Yeah, I totally know what you mean. My buddy and I tried Black powder at the same time without ever taking pre-workout supplements, ( Most are a joke), and he said it gave him nothing. I still take it and I love it. I'll probably by something else when I run out, do you recommend anything Bulk?
I've only tried NO-Xplode and superpump 250 ( which i'm currently taking) I prefer superpump,because I get more energy and better pumps from it than I did with NO-X. Also when using NO-X I noticed that My body became tolerant to it and I couldn't get that high energy level like I do with SP250.
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RE: Ester vs. Mono - 5/17/2008 10:10:34 PM
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Maverick620
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Alright thanks. I'll try superpump next then.
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RE: Ester vs. Mono - 5/18/2008 11:09:34 AM
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dapunisher
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Don't waste money on those brand name creatine products.
Just get cheap old mono and you're all set.
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RE: Ester vs. Mono - 5/18/2008 12:24:46 PM
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localoutoftowner
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reseachers also have reason to believe that the esters may be potentially harmful in the body. there are some studies being held right now so we will see
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RE: Ester vs. Mono - 5/18/2008 4:34:42 PM
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Maverick620
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Let see these studies then. I'm taking ester, I love it. Show me these links to where it says ester is bad. Do you know what ester is, it is CEE. It is creatine monohydrate with an Ester attached, get your facts straight. Don't bash on ester when you know nothing about it.
READ
Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL (CEE)
What is it and where does it come from?
Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL (CEE) is creatine monohydrate with an ester attached. Esters are organic compounds that are formed by esterification - the reaction of carboxylic acid and alcohols.
What does it do and what scientific studies give evidence to support this?
Regular creatine monohydrate has been shown effective at increasing lean muscle mass1,2,3,4, muscle strength5,6 and athletic performance.7,8
However, regular creatine monohydrate is absorbed poorly by the body - and its effectiveness is dependant upon the cells ability to absorb it. The poor absorption rate of regular creatine monohydrate requires the creatine user to ingest large dosages of creatine to achieve desired effect.
Because creatine draws water to the cell, and because most ingested creatine monohydrate is not absorbed, unabsorbed creatine will sit outside of the target cell with the water, and this will result in the "creatine bloat."
Long-term clinical studies have proven that creatine monohydrate is safe for use by persons free of medical complication9, but why would you want to ingest more creatine monohydrate than you have to simply because your creatine is inefficient?
Creatine ethyl ester is creatine monohydrate with an ester attached. The attachment of an ester is significant, because esters are found in the fat tissue of animals. But, why is this important? What role does this have in the absorption of creatine?
All substances that you put into your body will affect its operation. There are three ways that substances can affect a cells operation.
They are:
Ligand binding to protein receptor sites.
Secondary messenger / metabotropic systems
Passive permeation of the cell wall via lipids
When a substance enters the body and affects the bodies operation, it is known as a ligand. The soma and dendrites of the cell have protein receptor sites to which ligands can bind. The process of a ligand binding with a receptor site is akin to a lock and key: only keys of a certain shape work with certain locks. When they work and cause the cells stimulation they are called agonists. When they block the cell from functioning they are called antagonists.
When a ligand binds with the receptor site of a target cell, the cell, in the simplest of cases, changes its shape, opens up its ion channels and changes its function. In so-called "secondary messenger" or metabotropic cells, the ligand binds with the receptor site and an internal protein known as a g-protein is released. This released protein then binds to an internal site inside of the cell, and then the cell changes its behavior by opening its ion channels. Cells that operate in this way are known as metabotropic cells because their operation requires metabolic energy.
Passive permeation is a process that describes the diffusion of a substance across a cell membrane through the use of lipids as transport mechanisms. Because no "work" is being done by the cell in this model, this model is called passive permeation.
Creatine monohydrate utilizes lipids to permeate the cell wall and enter the cell. Because of this, the esterification of creatine, and the presence of esters in animal fat tissue, becomes significant.
Creatine monohydrate is semi-lipopholic. This means that it inefficiently uses fat as a transport mechanism. The esterification of substances will increase their lipopholic abilities, and thus esterified creatine will use fat more efficiently to permeate the cell wall and exert its effects upon cellular function than its unesterified creatine monohydrate counterpart.
This means, simply, that not only will dosage requirements be lower, but the absorption of esterified creatine will be increased and the infamous "creatine bloat" will be eliminated!
Who needs it and what are some symptoms of deficiency?
Creatine Ethyl Ester can benefit persons of all ages, as it displays the same benefits as regular creatine monohydrate. Many multiple sclerosis patients are classified as creatine non-responders, but with the improved absorption seen with CEE this may not be the case.
Is Creatine Ethyl Ester real?
Much controversy has been generated over creatine ethyl ester. Companies and individuals with a financial interest in promoting creatine monohydrate products have attempted to discredit creatine ethyl ester. Some companies have even gone so far as to commission laboratory reports that show that creatine ethyl ester is not real.
Included with this page is one such report, and also included are two COA's - certificates of analysis - proving that creatine ethyl ester is real. These are included so that you, the consumer, can make up your own mind - so that you can base your choices upon the power of information.
The one report that states that creatine ethyl ester is fake was commissioned by an industry company with an interest in discrediting creatine ethyl ester. The two certificates of analysis included show that CEE is real and was done on raw source product and conducted by people with no financial interest in the promotion of creatine ethyl ester.
The esterification of creatine is chemically possible and not hard to conceive. Those who claim that CEE is fake are denying obvious science and are cheating the consumer.
How much should be taken? Are there any side effects?
3-6 grams per day is the common suggested dosage. No side effects have been reported in any scientific literature.
quote:
ORIGINAL: localoutoftowner
reseachers also have reason to believe that the esters may be potentially harmful in the body. there are some studies being held right now so we will see
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RE: Ester vs. Mono - 5/18/2008 5:48:25 PM
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Maverick620
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A source.
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